Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks. The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery. The battery had only 1/10 of capacity, now it has 1/8. Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way. So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only: http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery. You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-battery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a helium neon laser). So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery. Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average... nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive? Circuits?
Lead acid battery desulfination?
Started by ●July 27, 2014
Reply by ●July 27, 20142014-07-27
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 18:17:26 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:> Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few > weeks. > The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery. > The battery had only 1/10 of capacity, > now it has 1/8. > Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way. > > So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only: > http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg> > Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery. > You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping): > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-battery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f> But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a > helium neon laser). > So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery. > Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average... > nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time > > Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back > alive? > Circuits?I believe that the approved technique is to take it to an auto parts store and exchange it for a new one. And yes -- it's a smart-ass answer. But then, I suspect that if desulphination really worked, then every battery shop and car dealership would have a machine. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com
Reply by ●July 27, 20142014-07-27
On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Jul 2014 13:50:09 -0500) it happened Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote in <zcCdnQTsvfB81EjOnZ2dnUVZ5r2dnZ2d@giganews.com>:>On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 18:17:26 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote: > >> Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few >> weeks. >> The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery. >> The battery had only 1/10 of capacity, >> now it has 1/8. >> Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way. >> >> So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only: >> http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/ >f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg >> >> Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery. >> You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping): >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation- >car-battery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f >> But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a >> helium neon laser). >> So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery. >> Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average... >> nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time >> >> Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back >> alive? >> Circuits? > >I believe that the approved technique is to take it to an auto parts >store and exchange it for a new one.Some do.>And yes -- it's a smart-ass answer. But then, I suspect that if >desulphination really worked, then every battery shop and car dealership >would have a machine.I've read US army (whatever you may think of it) has nice desulphators in use, google says, It is good business to sell people a new battery. But already now I can tell you desulphation is possible, just looking for a faster way. I was very sceptical myself until I did see capacity go up again. It is still running... on pulse now.
Reply by ●July 27, 20142014-07-27
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 19:22:39 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:> On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Jul 2014 13:50:09 -0500) it happened Tim Wescott > <tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote in > <zcCdnQTsvfB81EjOnZ2dnUVZ5r2dnZ2d@giganews.com>: > >>On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 18:17:26 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> >>> Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few >>> weeks. >>> The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery. >>> The battery had only 1/10 of capacity, >>> now it has 1/8. >>> Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way. >>> >>> So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only: >>> http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/ >>f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg >>> >>> Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery. >>> You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping): >>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation->>car-battery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f>>> But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for >>> a helium neon laser). >>> So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my >>> battery. >>> Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average... >>> nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time >>> >>> Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back >>> alive? >>> Circuits? >> >>I believe that the approved technique is to take it to an auto parts >>store and exchange it for a new one. > > Some do. > > >>And yes -- it's a smart-ass answer. But then, I suspect that if >>desulphination really worked, then every battery shop and car dealership >>would have a machine. > > I've read US army (whatever you may think of it) has nice desulphators > in use, google says, > > It is good business to sell people a new battery. > But already now I can tell you desulphation is possible, > just looking for a faster way. > I was very sceptical myself until I did see capacity go up again. > It is still running... on pulse now.Let us know how it works out. I suspect that you'll just end up with a battery that's never quite 100% capacity, and that either wears out quick or isn't reliable. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com
Reply by ●July 27, 20142014-07-27
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 14:42:14 -0500, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote:>On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 19:22:39 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:>> It is good business to sell people a new battery. >> But already now I can tell you desulphation is possible, >> just looking for a faster way. >> I was very sceptical myself until I did see capacity go up again. >> It is still running... on pulse now. > >Let us know how it works out. I suspect that you'll just end up with a >battery that's never quite 100% capacity, and that either wears out quick >or isn't reliable.--- Teach a corpse how to work and you can get it to pay for its own funeral. ;) John Fields
Reply by ●July 27, 20142014-07-27
Well, you could try the epsom's salt rejunevation technique, a search will turn up lots and lots of hits. May not work, but it is quick :-). Never tried it myself so curious if you do it how it goes. ----- Regards, Carl Ijames "Jan Panteltje" wrote in message news:lr3fno$e37$1@news.datemas.de... Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks. The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery. The battery had only 1/10 of capacity, now it has 1/8. Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way. So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only: http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery. You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-battery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a helium neon laser). So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery. Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average... nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive? Circuits?
Reply by ●July 27, 20142014-07-27
In article <lr3fno$e37$1@news.datemas.de>, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com> wrote:> Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks. > The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery. > The battery had only 1/10 of capacity, > now it has 1/8. > Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way. > > So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only: > http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f00503 > 08e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg > > Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery. > You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping): > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-bat > tery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f > But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a > helium neon laser). > So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery. > Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average... > nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time > > Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive? > Circuits?I've tried a couple of charger tricks: - A PWM regulator that maximizes ripple current - Momentarily draw a huge current Periodically drawing a huge current seems to work. It fixes the case where a battery stops drawing current and won't charge. I don't know if that's sulfate buildup or just welding some conductive paths in the sponge lead. In the end I came to the conclusion that there's no good way to use lead acid batteries. They're heavy, short-lived, and unreliable. The sponge lead falls off. The lead grids crack. Sulfate buildup kills them. The rivets between cells corrode. They randomly go high impedance for a while. Nickel Metal Hydride performs better in all manners except that they're difficult to charge. I use only lithium batteries now. There are some different options for power density versus ruggedness there.
Reply by ●July 27, 20142014-07-27
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 13:52:22 -0700, Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> wrote:>In article <lr3fno$e37$1@news.datemas.de>, > Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks. >> The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery. >> The battery had only 1/10 of capacity, >> now it has 1/8. >> Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way. >> >> So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only: >> http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f00503 >> 08e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg >> >> Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery. >> You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping): >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-bat >> tery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f >> But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a >> helium neon laser). >> So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery. >> Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average... >> nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time >> >> Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive? >> Circuits? > >I've tried a couple of charger tricks: >- A PWM regulator that maximizes ripple current >- Momentarily draw a huge current > >Periodically drawing a huge current seems to work. It fixes the case >where a battery stops drawing current and won't charge. I don't know if >that's sulfate buildup or just welding some conductive paths in the >sponge lead. > > >In the end I came to the conclusion that there's no good way to use lead >acid batteries. They're heavy, short-lived, and unreliable. The sponge >lead falls off. The lead grids crack. Sulfate buildup kills them. The >rivets between cells corrode. They randomly go high impedance for a >while. > >Nickel Metal Hydride performs better in all manners except that they're >difficult to charge. I use only lithium batteries now. There are some >different options for power density versus ruggedness there.It all depends on the use. I wouldn't use NMH or Lion for a starter battery and would be hesitant for anything that's float charged for years at a time (LIon, maybe), like egress lighting. I really don't see the use for NMH anymore. LIon has pretty much taken over that space. LIon's biggest negative is its cost (and fire hazard if not properly cared for). NMH is dirt cheap and, for those who lose sleep about such things, "environmentally friendly". For car (starter) batteries, nothing comes close to lead-acid. Cheap, reliable, and effective.
Reply by ●July 27, 20142014-07-27
On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 18:17:26 GMT, Jan Panteltje <panteltje@yahoo.com> wrote:>Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few weeks. >The method I used is to run 200 mA at 16V into a 12V battery. >The battery had only 1/10 of capacity, >now it has 1/8. >Takes too long for my liking, would several month that way. > >So did some googling, and found this circuit diagram only: > http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/pjpeg/f1116c552716baf0a54f0050308e5d20c651ef3c.pjpg > >Basically a flyback where the flyback impulse goes into the battery. >You can buy that sort of stuff on ebay too (30$ ex shipping): > http://www.ebay.com/itm/Top-Selling-12V-8A-Negative-Pulse-Desulfation-car-battery-charger-/171399004719?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item27e82d422f >But I thought why bother, I have such a flyback powering some HV (for a helium neon laser). >So I took a diode from the collector and put that back into my battery. >Been running now a few hours, about few hundred mA average... >nice pulse, 15 kHz repetition, will leave it on some time > >Anybody any experience bringing old sulfated lead acid batteries back alive? >Circuits?Lightly sulfated battery's can show an improvement. heavily sulfated batteries don't recover. The best method is the high frequency fly back, the idea is to loosen the sulfur so that it can be reabsorbed into the electrolyte. As the sulfur builds on the plates it becomes hard and is difficult to remove with normal charging. Cheers
Reply by ●July 27, 20142014-07-27
On Sunday, July 27, 2014 12:22:39 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:> On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Jul 2014 13:50:09 -0500) it happened Tim Wescott > > <tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote in > > <zcCdnQTsvfB81EjOnZ2dnUVZ5r2dnZ2d@giganews.com>: > > > > >On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 18:17:26 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:> >> Been trying to 'desulfinate' a 13Ah lead acid battery now for a few > >> weeks.> >I believe that the approved technique is to take it to an auto parts > >store and exchange it for a new one.> It is good business to sell people a new battery. > But already now I can tell you desulphation is possible,The telephone system routinely rebuilt their batteries after aging and sulphination lowered the battery capacity. They re-smelted the lead and that sure got rid of the sulphate! It's not just new paint disease, the new battery really DOES solve the problem.
