I'm behaviorally modeling a _system_ that includes the discrete device
Supertex VP2450.
At the Supertex/Microchip site, it says no Spice model available :-)
Does anyone know of a model?
Thanks!
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
VP2450 Spice Model
Started by ●April 27, 2014
Reply by ●April 27, 20142014-04-27
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 09:27:27 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:>I'm behaviorally modeling a _system_ that includes the discrete device >Supertex VP2450. > >At the Supertex/Microchip site, it says no Spice model available :-) > >Does anyone know of a model? > >Thanks! > > ...Jim ThompsonWhy not just use some similar part that you have a model for? That mosfet is not at all unusual, and they are not precision parts anyhow. That's what I usually do for vanilla diodes, transistors, or mosfets: pick something close that LT Spice already has. Exotica, like phemts or depletion fets or jfets, justify more exact models. Or, if you really want a VP2450 model, pick a similar mosfet model and tweak the params. -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation
Reply by ●April 27, 20142014-04-27
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 10:01:42 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:>On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 09:27:27 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>I'm behaviorally modeling a _system_ that includes the discrete device >>Supertex VP2450. >> >>At the Supertex/Microchip site, it says no Spice model available :-) >> >>Does anyone know of a model? >> >>Thanks! >> >> ...Jim Thompson > >Why not just use some similar part that you have a model for? That mosfet is not >at all unusual, and they are not precision parts anyhow.500V PMOS> >That's what I usually do for vanilla diodes, transistors, or mosfets: pick >something close that LT Spice already has. Exotica, like phemts or depletion >fets or jfets, justify more exact models. > >Or, if you really want a VP2450 model, pick a similar mosfet model and tweak the >params.The problem is nailing the GBW product of this monster. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by ●April 27, 20142014-04-27
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 10:24:59 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:>On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 10:01:42 -0700, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >>On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 09:27:27 -0700, Jim Thompson >><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >>>I'm behaviorally modeling a _system_ that includes the discrete device >>>Supertex VP2450. >>> >>>At the Supertex/Microchip site, it says no Spice model available :-) >>> >>>Does anyone know of a model? >>> >>>Thanks! >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >> >>Why not just use some similar part that you have a model for? That mosfet is not >>at all unusual, and they are not precision parts anyhow. > >500V PMOSSpice models of semiconductors rarely include breakdown voltage. LT Spice is happy to run a 1N4148 at -100 kilovolts. That part is not avalanche rated, so don't let the drain voltage hit -500.> >> >>That's what I usually do for vanilla diodes, transistors, or mosfets: pick >>something close that LT Spice already has. Exotica, like phemts or depletion >>fets or jfets, justify more exact models. >> >>Or, if you really want a VP2450 model, pick a similar mosfet model and tweak the >>params. > >The problem is nailing the GBW product of this monster. > > ...Jim ThompsonAs I said, pick something close. The GBW won't be precise anyhow. Your circuit should have a lot of tolerance for fet capacitances and such. Hey, you are supposed to be the model creation guru, so create a model. -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation
Reply by ●April 27, 20142014-04-27
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 10:49:43 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:>On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 10:24:59 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 10:01:42 -0700, John Larkin >><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> >>>On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 09:27:27 -0700, Jim Thompson >>><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >>> >>>>I'm behaviorally modeling a _system_ that includes the discrete device >>>>Supertex VP2450. >>>> >>>>At the Supertex/Microchip site, it says no Spice model available :-) >>>> >>>>Does anyone know of a model? >>>> >>>>Thanks! >>>> >>>> ...Jim Thompson >>> >>>Why not just use some similar part that you have a model for? That mosfet is not >>>at all unusual, and they are not precision parts anyhow. >> >>500V PMOS > >Spice models of semiconductors rarely include breakdown voltage. LT Spice is >happy to run a 1N4148 at -100 kilovolts. > >That part is not avalanche rated, so don't let the drain voltage hit -500. > >> >>> >>>That's what I usually do for vanilla diodes, transistors, or mosfets: pick >>>something close that LT Spice already has. Exotica, like phemts or depletion >>>fets or jfets, justify more exact models. >>> >>>Or, if you really want a VP2450 model, pick a similar mosfet model and tweak the >>>params. >> >>The problem is nailing the GBW product of this monster. >> >> ...Jim Thompson > >As I said, pick something close. The GBW won't be precise anyhow. Your circuit >should have a lot of tolerance for fet capacitances and such. > >Hey, you are supposed to be the model creation guru, so create a model.Takes data to make a model. That is lacking, and the customers measurements are suspect. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by ●April 27, 20142014-04-27
In article <p9gql9hh9ke81ua3n9e7fds5do871ifdr1@4ax.com>, jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com says...> > On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 10:24:59 -0700, Jim Thompson > <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > > >On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 10:01:42 -0700, John Larkin > ><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > > > >>On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 09:27:27 -0700, Jim Thompson > >><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >> > >>>I'm behaviorally modeling a _system_ that includes the discrete device > >>>Supertex VP2450. > >>> > >>>At the Supertex/Microchip site, it says no Spice model available :-) > >>> > >>>Does anyone know of a model? > >>> > >>>Thanks! > >>> > >>> ...Jim Thompson > >> > >>Why not just use some similar part that you have a model for? That mosfet is not > >>at all unusual, and they are not precision parts anyhow. > > > >500V PMOS > > Spice models of semiconductors rarely include breakdown voltage. LT Spice is > happy to run a 1N4148 at -100 kilovolts. > > That part is not avalanche rated, so don't let the drain voltage hit -500. > > > > >> > >>That's what I usually do for vanilla diodes, transistors, or mosfets: pick > >>something close that LT Spice already has. Exotica, like phemts or depletion > >>fets or jfets, justify more exact models. > >> > >>Or, if you really want a VP2450 model, pick a similar mosfet model and tweak the > >>params. > > > >The problem is nailing the GBW product of this monster. > > > > ...Jim Thompson > > As I said, pick something close. The GBW won't be precise anyhow. Your circuit > should have a lot of tolerance for fet capacitances and such. > > Hey, you are supposed to be the model creation guru, so create a model.I suppose one could insert the "BV" parameter in a existing model, that is, if the model being used has that. If you use a VDMOS, you can apply the BV Vds(Break down voltage) Oh well. Jamie
Reply by ●April 27, 20142014-04-27
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 09:27:27 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote:
I'm behaviorally modeling a _system_ that includes the discrete device
Supertex VP2450.
At the Supertex/Microchip site, it says no Spice model available
Does anyone know of a model?
Thanks!
...Jim Thompson
I haven't found many of Supertex's models to converge well, or even seem
to replicate the part very well. Sometime they'd supply something with
text that 'looked' like a .cir file, Had to check all the default
prarameters and then 'correct' the forms, but that was a few years ago.
Do you have this one? the VN2450.
*
* SEPTEMBER 24, 2001
*
* COMPOSITE MODEL FOR VN2450
*
.SUBCKT VN2450 1 2 3 4
*
* NODE 1 = DRAIN
* NODE 2 = GATE
* NODE 3 = SOURCE
* NODE 4 = BODY
*
MOS1 11 2 3 4 NE_DMOS L=3.0E-06 W=58E-3
JFET 1 3 11 JMOD 1
DBODY 4 1 DMOS
R 1 11 1E+6
*
.MODEL NE_DMOS NMOS
+ LEVEL=3 UO=240 VTO=2.527 NFS=7.448e+11
+ TOX=5e-08 NSUB=3.59e+15 NSS=0 VMAX=1e+06
+ RS=1 RD=1e-06 RSH=5000 CGDO=3.12e-09
+ CGSO=2.5e-09 CGBO=0 CJ=8e-11 CJSW=0
+ MJ=0.5736 MJSW=0.33 IS=6.472e-13 PB=1.2
+ FC=0.5 XJ=1e-05 LD=0 DELTA=0
+ THETA=0 ETA=1e-06 KAPPA=1e-06
*
.MODEL DMOS D
+ IS=12e-12 N=1.218 RS=10
+ BV=500 IBV=1.0e-3 TT=1e-6
+ CJO=60e-12 VJ=1.2 M=0.5736
*
.MODEL JMOD NJF
+ VTO=-10 BETA=8.872e-3 IS=1e-12
+ RD=10 LAMBDA=0
.ENDS
Reply by ●April 27, 20142014-04-27
On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 09:27:27 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote:> I'm behaviorally modeling a _system_ that includes the discrete device > Supertex VP2450. > > At the Supertex/Microchip site, it says no Spice model available :-) > > Does anyone know of a model? > > Thanks! > > ...Jim ThompsonI didn't see it anywhere in the 35MB of Alex Bordodunov's models, but he might have one. Did you email him?
Reply by ●April 28, 20142014-04-28
In article <op.xe0aifd22cx0wh@ajm>, robert.a.macy@gmail.com says...> > On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 09:27:27 -0700, Jim Thompson > <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: > > > I'm behaviorally modeling a _system_ that includes the discrete device > > Supertex VP2450. > > > > At the Supertex/Microchip site, it says no Spice model available :-) > > > > Does anyone know of a model? > > > > Thanks! > > > > ...Jim Thompson > > > I didn't see it anywhere in the 35MB of Alex Bordodunov's models, but he > might have one. Did you email him?I am no model expert, let alone understanding some of the spice parameters that are not even seen in the data base models, but I came up with this using supertex PDF file, as vague as it was. Lots of items not specified in it and some that are, I don't see where to apply them in spice, because like I said, I ain't no model expert. I ran this using their test jig and the charts to do some compares. .model VP2450 VDMOS(pchan Rg= 3 Rd=15 Rs=15 Vto=-2.0 BV=-500 Kp=320 Cgs=190p Is=1e-30 CgdMax= 75p) There are items missing for the body diode for capacitance etc.. Then I apply it in an inductive test app and seems to look ok. Oh well. Jamie Jamie
Reply by ●April 29, 20142014-04-29
"Maynard A. Philbrook Jr." wrote in message news:MPG.2dc8b77542a1a04e989899@news.eternal-september.org... In article <op.xe0aifd22cx0wh@ajm>, robert.a.macy@gmail.com says...> > On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 09:27:27 -0700, Jim Thompson > <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: > > > I'm behaviorally modeling a _system_ that includes the discrete device > > Supertex VP2450. > > > > At the Supertex/Microchip site, it says no Spice model available :-) > > > > Does anyone know of a model? > > > > Thanks! > > > > ...Jim Thompson > > > I didn't see it anywhere in the 35MB of Alex Bordodunov's models, but he > might have one. Did you email him?>I am no model expert, let alone understanding some of the spice >parameters that are not even seen in the data base models, but I came up >with this using supertex PDF file, as vague as it was. Lots of items not >specified in it and some that are, I don't see where to apply them in >spice, because like I said, I ain't no model expert. > I ran this using their test jig and the charts to do some compares..model VP2450 VDMOS(pchan Rg= 3 Rd=15 Rs=15 Vto=-2.0 BV=-500 Kp=320 Cgs=190p Is=1e-30 CgdMax= 75p) Ahmm.... Is is a tad small, and may cause convergence problems. A 1uX1u diode junction will be of the order of < 1e-18, usually Bigger discrete devices might be hitting 1e-15, or thereabouts Kevin Aylward B.Sc. www.kevinaylward.co.uk www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice
