Forums

Injection Locking an Oscillator (was Novel Zeitgeber devive for antique clock)

Started by Jim Thompson February 2, 2014
PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an
oscillator >:-}

His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the
oscillator.  There are better ways to handle such a scenario.

For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)...


<http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf>

Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR....


<http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf>
		
                                        ...Jim Thompson
-- 
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142   Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com |    1962     |
             
I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an >oscillator >:-} > >His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the >oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario. > >For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)... > > ><http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf> > >Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR.... > > ><http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf> > > ...Jim Thompson
Should anyone be puzzled over my "oscillator", it's the behavioral equivalent of a diff-pair, the explanation of which I posted yesterday (2/1/2014)... <http://www.analog-innovations.com/DiffPairMath-JT.pdf> ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an >oscillator >:-}
You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator.
> >His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the >oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario. > >For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)... > > ><http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf>
BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use hundreds?
> >Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR.... > > ><http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf> > > ...Jim Thompson
Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the gain element. -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:07:25 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an >>oscillator >:-} > >You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator. > > > >> >>His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the >>oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario. >> >>For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)... >> >> >><http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf> > > >BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use >hundreds? > >> >>Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR.... >> >> >><http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf> >> >> ...Jim Thompson > >Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the >gain element.
Of course, PAL, it works so-o-o-o well >:-} ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:08:17 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:07:25 -0800, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >>On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson >><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >>>PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an >>>oscillator >:-} >> >>You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator. >> >> >> >>> >>>His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the >>>oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario. >>> >>>For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)... >>> >>> >>><http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf> >> >> >>BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use >>hundreds? >> >>> >>>Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR.... >>> >>> >>><http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf> >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >> >>Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the >>gain element. > >Of course, PAL, it works so-o-o-o well >:-} > > ...Jim Thompson
The point is that it does work. It makes an f/2 signal using only a diode as the active element, which was (some time ago) in question here. With a proper varicap diode and some optimization, it would be more efficient. But it works. It was sort of an homage to A. F. Boff. http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1960-01.pdf -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:58:52 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:08:17 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:07:25 -0800, John Larkin >><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> >>>On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson >>><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >>> >>>>PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an >>>>oscillator >:-} >>> >>>You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator. >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the >>>>oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario. >>>> >>>>For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)... >>>> >>>> >>>><http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf> >>> >>> >>>BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use >>>hundreds? >>> >>>> >>>>Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR.... >>>> >>>> >>>><http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf> >>>> >>>> ...Jim Thompson >>> >>>Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the >>>gain element. >> >>Of course, PAL, it works so-o-o-o well >:-} >> >> ...Jim Thompson > >The point is that it does work. It makes an f/2 signal using only a diode as the >active element, which was (some time ago) in question here. With a proper >varicap diode and some optimization, it would be more efficient. But it works. >It was sort of an homage to A. F. Boff. > >http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1960-01.pdf
I used power varactors in the early '60's (tripling) to get to 144-148MHz (2-meter FM ham band) from 48-49.333MHz... to get 5 Watts output. The transistors of that era weren't quite up to directly making 144MHz. Drilled a hole in the middle of the roof of my '61 Renault Dauphine and mounted a waterproof BNC connector for a quarter-wave whip ;-) But getting back to subharmonic inject of "oscillators"... I think you're deluding yourself calling that parametric pumping. See for example, with an ordinary diode and input DC-skewed (as in your post, but in the proper direction :)... <http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator_DiodeOnly.pdf> But we'd all be interested in seeing your ASC file when it includes "a proper varicap diode and some optimization" >:-} ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:07:14 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an >>oscillator >:-} >> >>His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the >>oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario. >> >>For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)... >> >> >><http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf>
Cool; a dozen quad LM324s, 48 crappy opamps. LM324's show visible sinewave crossover distortion at 60 Hz. One question? Who would put a circuit like that, grossly distorting, with hundreds of parts, consuming about 5 watts, into a boom box? -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 11:32:09 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:58:52 -0800, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >>On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:08:17 -0700, Jim Thompson >><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >>>On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:07:25 -0800, John Larkin >>><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson >>>><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an >>>>>oscillator >:-} >>>> >>>>You fail to realize that a parametric oscillator is an oscillator. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the >>>>>oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario. >>>>> >>>>>For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>><http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf> >>>> >>>> >>>>BoomBox! Hilarious hairball. Why do something with a few parts, when you can use >>>>hundreds? >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Here is an injection-locked OSCILLATOR.... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>><http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/InjectionLockingAnOscillator.pdf> >>>>> >>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>> >>>>Trivial and unoriginal. It's more interesting to use the parametric pump as the >>>>gain element. >>> >>>Of course, PAL, it works so-o-o-o well >:-} >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >> >>The point is that it does work. It makes an f/2 signal using only a diode as the >>active element, which was (some time ago) in question here. With a proper >>varicap diode and some optimization, it would be more efficient. But it works. >>It was sort of an homage to A. F. Boff. >> >>http://www.hpl.hp.com/hpjournal/pdfs/IssuePDFs/1960-01.pdf > >I used power varactors in the early '60's (tripling) to get to >144-148MHz (2-meter FM ham band) from 48-49.333MHz... to get 5 Watts >output. The transistors of that era weren't quite up to directly >making 144MHz. > >Drilled a hole in the middle of the roof of my '61 Renault Dauphine >and mounted a waterproof BNC connector for a quarter-wave whip ;-) > >But getting back to subharmonic inject of "oscillators"... I think >you're deluding yourself calling that parametric pumping.
OK, there is clearly an f/2 component in my output. There is none in the V1 source. Where does the f/2 energy come from? If you can't figure that out, try asking one of your "young bucks."
> >See for example, with an ordinary diode and input DC-skewed (as in >your post, but in the proper direction :)...
Are you sure your oscillator is sub-locking to the sinewave source? It's a little hard to tell in that narrow time slice, but it sure looks like they are drifting in phase. So the "lock" may be an illusion of them being, by design, close in frequency. -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 10:37:13 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:07:14 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson >><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >>>PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an >>>oscillator >:-} >>> >>>His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the >>>oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario. >>> >>>For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)... >>> >>> >>><http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf> > > >Cool; a dozen quad LM324s, 48 crappy opamps. LM324's show visible sinewave >crossover distortion at 60 Hz. > >One question? Who would put a circuit like that, grossly distorting, with >hundreds of parts, consuming about 5 watts, into a boom box?
Listen, PAL, it's too exotic for you to understand... REALLY >:-} How about getting back to the original subject? ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 12:04:49 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 10:37:13 -0800, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >>On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 09:07:14 -0700, Jim Thompson >><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >>>On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 08:49:55 -0700, Jim Thompson >>><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >>> >>>>PAL fails to realize that injection locking an oscillator requires an >>>>oscillator >:-} >>>> >>>>His post was an attempt to output a subharmonic without the >>>>oscillator. There are better ways to handle such a scenario. >>>> >>>>For example, see my boom-box machine (circa 1979)... >>>> >>>> >>>><http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/SubBassEnhancer_BoomBoxProcessor.pdf> >> >> >>Cool; a dozen quad LM324s, 48 crappy opamps. LM324's show visible sinewave >>crossover distortion at 60 Hz. >> >>One question? Who would put a circuit like that, grossly distorting, with >>hundreds of parts, consuming about 5 watts, into a boom box? > >Listen, PAL, it's too exotic for you to understand... REALLY >:-} > >How about getting back to the original subject? > > ...Jim Thompson
YOU posted that circuit. Now you don't want to talk about it. Can't say I blame you. It's another parts-rich hairball. -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation