Forums

Motor starting switch

Started by Oppie October 12, 2013
pain in the tail, my FAIP H150 electric power washer died. The motor 
starting capacitor went (oozed out the side of plastic shell). Replaced it 
with a similarly rated phenolic case starting cap but noticed it's getting 
very warm. More than likely the motor centrifugal switch is stuck closed. It 
is a TEFC motor so getting to the switch is a major pain. Not to mention 
that I don't see a replacement part listed anywhere.

As a test, I started the motor and then pulled a lead from the starting 
capacitor. It sparked, showing that there was current flowing. So, either 
this is a permanent split capacitor motor (unlikely) or the centrifugal 
switch has failed shorted.

Now looking for a simple electronic or magnetic replacement. Has anybody had 
any success with a similar replacement? My first thought was the starting 
relay commonly used in refrigerators and air conditioners. It has a current 
sensing relay coil in series with the run winding. Initially when power is 
applied, the rotor is stationary and the run winding current is high. This 
closes the contacts and applies power to the start winding (usually no 
capacitor used on this) and motor starts. When the motor is up to speed, the 
start current diminishes and the relay drops out, removing power from the 
start winding.

Thank you as always - Oppie 

Correction - it is FAIP model H120.
That's what I get for doing something from memory at my age... 
On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 15:23:00 -0400, "Oppie" <Oppie@127.0.0.1> wrote:

>pain in the tail, my FAIP H150 electric power washer died. The motor >starting capacitor went (oozed out the side of plastic shell). Replaced it >with a similarly rated phenolic case starting cap but noticed it's getting >very warm. More than likely the motor centrifugal switch is stuck closed. It >is a TEFC motor so getting to the switch is a major pain. Not to mention >that I don't see a replacement part listed anywhere. > >As a test, I started the motor and then pulled a lead from the starting >capacitor. It sparked, showing that there was current flowing. So, either >this is a permanent split capacitor motor (unlikely) or the centrifugal >switch has failed shorted. > >Now looking for a simple electronic or magnetic replacement. Has anybody had >any success with a similar replacement? My first thought was the starting >relay commonly used in refrigerators and air conditioners. It has a current >sensing relay coil in series with the run winding. Initially when power is >applied, the rotor is stationary and the run winding current is high. This >closes the contacts and applies power to the start winding (usually no >capacitor used on this) and motor starts. When the motor is up to speed, the >start current diminishes and the relay drops out, removing power from the >start winding. > >Thank you as always - Oppie
How about a manual switch? -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 13:01:50 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 15:23:00 -0400, "Oppie" <Oppie@127.0.0.1> wrote: > >>pain in the tail, my FAIP H150 electric power washer died. The motor >>starting capacitor went (oozed out the side of plastic shell). Replaced >>it with a similarly rated phenolic case starting cap but noticed it's >>getting very warm. More than likely the motor centrifugal switch is >>stuck closed. It is a TEFC motor so getting to the switch is a major >>pain. Not to mention that I don't see a replacement part listed >>anywhere. >> >>As a test, I started the motor and then pulled a lead from the starting >>capacitor. It sparked, showing that there was current flowing. So, >>either this is a permanent split capacitor motor (unlikely) or the >>centrifugal switch has failed shorted. >> >>Now looking for a simple electronic or magnetic replacement. Has anybody >>had any success with a similar replacement? My first thought was the >>starting relay commonly used in refrigerators and air conditioners. It >>has a current sensing relay coil in series with the run winding. >>Initially when power is applied, the rotor is stationary and the run >>winding current is high. This closes the contacts and applies power to >>the start winding (usually no capacitor used on this) and motor starts. >>When the motor is up to speed, the start current diminishes and the >>relay drops out, removing power from the start winding. >> >>Thank you as always - Oppie > > > How about a manual switch?
That means it works fine for you, but when your brother-in-law borrows it the thing comes back broken. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com
On 13/10/13 04:01, Oppie wrote:
> Correction - it is FAIP model H120. > That's what I get for doing something from memory at my age...
Not sure if they still are around but there used to be a solid state job (Probably a brimistor or such). You just wired it in series with the start winding and it went open in a short period of current flow.
In article <bkh6u.55634$I35.31627@fx01.iad>, "Oppie" <Oppie@127.0.0.1> 
wrote:

> pain in the tail, my FAIP H150 electric power washer died. The motor > starting capacitor went (oozed out the side of plastic shell). Replaced it > with a similarly rated phenolic case starting cap but noticed it's getting > very warm. More than likely the motor centrifugal switch is stuck closed. It > is a TEFC motor so getting to the switch is a major pain. Not to mention > that I don't see a replacement part listed anywhere. > > As a test, I started the motor and then pulled a lead from the starting > capacitor. It sparked, showing that there was current flowing. So, either > this is a permanent split capacitor motor (unlikely) or the centrifugal > switch has failed shorted. > > Now looking for a simple electronic or magnetic replacement. Has anybody had > any success with a similar replacement? My first thought was the starting > relay commonly used in refrigerators and air conditioners. It has a current > sensing relay coil in series with the run winding. Initially when power is > applied, the rotor is stationary and the run winding current is high. This > closes the contacts and applies power to the start winding (usually no > capacitor used on this) and motor starts. When the motor is up to speed, the > start current diminishes and the relay drops out, removing power from the > start winding. > > Thank you as always - Oppie
Maybe there's no switch. If so, you need a run capacitor rather than a start capacitor. Start capacitors are aluminum electrolytic while run capacitors are plastic film. Electrolytic capacitors produce gases at high currents and they'll explode without a long resting period.
On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 07:16:24 +0800, Rheilly Phoull
<rheilly@bigslong.com> wrote:

>On 13/10/13 04:01, Oppie wrote: >> Correction - it is FAIP model H120. >> That's what I get for doing something from memory at my age... > >Not sure if they still are around but there used to be a solid state job >(Probably a brimistor or such). You just wired it in series with the >start winding and it went open in a short period of current flow.
I have seen those Bimetallic PTCs? in the little cheap fridges. They usually fail after a few years. But they have the desired mode of operation. Cheers
"Tim Wescott" <tim@seemywebsite.really> wrote in message 
news:7Y2dnftQf5FRIMTPnZ2dnUVZ5vGXnZ2d@giganews.com...
> On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 13:01:50 -0700, John Larkin wrote: > >> On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 15:23:00 -0400, "Oppie" <Oppie@127.0.0.1> wrote: >> >>>pain in the tail, my FAIP H150 electric power washer died. The motor >>>starting capacitor went (oozed out the side of plastic shell). Replaced >>>it with a similarly rated phenolic case starting cap but noticed it's >>>getting very warm. More than likely the motor centrifugal switch is >>>stuck closed. It is a TEFC motor so getting to the switch is a major >>>pain. Not to mention that I don't see a replacement part listed >>>anywhere. >>> >>>As a test, I started the motor and then pulled a lead from the starting >>>capacitor. It sparked, showing that there was current flowing. So, >>>either this is a permanent split capacitor motor (unlikely) or the >>>centrifugal switch has failed shorted. >>> >>>Now looking for a simple electronic or magnetic replacement. Has anybody >>>had any success with a similar replacement? My first thought was the >>>starting relay commonly used in refrigerators and air conditioners. It >>>has a current sensing relay coil in series with the run winding. >>>Initially when power is applied, the rotor is stationary and the run >>>winding current is high. This closes the contacts and applies power to >>>the start winding (usually no capacitor used on this) and motor starts. >>>When the motor is up to speed, the start current diminishes and the >>>relay drops out, removing power from the start winding. >>> >>>Thank you as always - Oppie >> >> >> How about a manual switch? > > That means it works fine for you, but when your brother-in-law borrows it > the thing comes back broken. >
Yes. I'd sooner put in a 1 second time delay relay that opens the start circuit after the time delay.
"Martin Riddle" <martin_rid@verizon.net> wrote in message 
news:p3tj59tic6tu1431l5vc053aabakgd1g44@4ax.com...
> > I have seen those Bimetallic PTCs? in the little cheap fridges. > They usually fail after a few years. But they have the desired mode of > operation. >
Chuckle... I repaired the next door neighbor's refrigerator this August. One horrible time of year (in northern hemisphere) for it to die. It had a PTC in the starting circuit in series with the start capacitor. A bimetal overload switch would open the line feed when there was a fault or short cycle (where the compressor tries to restart under load). The PTC failed and burnt up rather dramatically! New starting module and capacitor from allappliancepros.com plus overnight shipping for $105 and neighbor was very happy to have it working again. Now he knows to vacuum the condensing coils once a year as the failure was largely due to them being totally clogged.
"Kevin McMurtrie" <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> wrote in message 
news:mcmurtrie-55EEC7.16524612102013@c-61-68-245-199.per.connect.net.au...
> > Maybe there's no switch. If so, you need a run capacitor rather than a > start capacitor. Start capacitors are aluminum electrolytic while run > capacitors are plastic film. Electrolytic capacitors produce gases at > high currents and they'll explode without a long resting period. >
Duly noted. Thank you for the explanation. I was not aware of the difference. Trying to confirm whether it has a centrifugal switch and making the appropriate choice. I did run the motor albeit without water pressurization loading. After motor was to speed, opened the capacitor circuit. There was no loss of speed when the capacitor was opened. I should repeat the test with hydrostatic load. The motor is a Nord and must have been a custom for FAIP. I haven't been able to get an answer from FAIP or whomever purchased them. Regards - Oppie