On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:50:28 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>On 9/14/2013 2:24 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 09:40:34 -0700, Jim Thompson >> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 12:30:02 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>> >>>> On 9/14/2013 12:15 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 02:19:16 +0000 (UTC), Don Kuenz >>>>> <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: >>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:14:33 -0700, Jim Thompson >>>>>>> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:55:33 -0700, RobertMacy >>>>>>>> <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:38:57 -0700, Jim Thompson >>>>>>>>> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 07:13:46 -0700, RobertMacy >>>>>>>>>> <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ..snip... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Did you look through the 100+MB of Alex Bordodynov's models? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I only could download one set, not the larger set, so couldn't peruse. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I've seen that name on the LTspice list. Do you have a link to his >>>>>>>>>> site? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ...snip... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> His models usually are accurate and have conversion speed enhancements. He >>>>>>>>> supplied two links, circa July 5, 2013, posted to the LTspice group, which >>>>>>>>> I trashed after downloading each. Big mistake! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> LTspiceIV.zip is 37MB of 'tiny' little .asc files so you have an idea how >>>>>>>>> many models are in there. >>>>>>>>> LTSPICE.DOC is 67MB and dialup download took HOURS!!! only to find out >>>>>>>>> today that when unzipping, comes up 'corrupted' download again! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks. That will allow me to find it. As you know, I keep a record >>>>>>>> of everything... even an LTspice list directory "Pre_2013" ;-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Found it. How do I download, it's all in Russian, and I can't get the >>>>>>>> download to start :-( >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here you go... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <http://us.ua/1162032/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kill the pop-up on the lower left, then you can download. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for sharing Jim. Here's a more Anglo friendly link. >>>>>> >>>>>> http://ltwiki.org/index.php5?title=Components_Library_and_Circuits >>>>> >>>>> Here's something to fret over, compare Unijunction models, wonder >>>>> which is real... >>>>> >>>>> <http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/CompareUnijunctionModels.pdf> >>>>> >>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Probably neither--this is SPICE we're talking about. ;0 >>>> >>>> I've used PUTs (2N6028) in laser interlocks, where I needed to be sure >>>> that there wouldn't be any weird behaviour on power-up or with transients. >>>> >>>> BTW kudos for working to pass stuff along to the next generation. Now >>>> all you have to do is start writing for real. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Phil Hobbs >>> >>> I suspect the MicroSim/Motorola/THYRYSTR.lib is pretty close. It's >>> certainly complex enough ;-) >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >> >> After some more head-scratching, and dumping the ancient single >> junction (Unijunction) device and looking only at the "PUT" (4-layer >> device), the _only_ two transistor model makes sense... >> >> *Programmable Unijunction Transistor pkg: TO-226AA, Don Kuenz >> * .SUBCKT 2N6027DK 1 2 3 >> .SUBCKT 2N6027DK 2 1 3 ; B2 E B1 >> ************** K1 G K2 >> Q1 2 4 3 NMOD >> Q2 4 2 1 PMOD >> .MODEL NMOD NPN(IS=5E-15 VAF=100 IKF=0.005 ISE=1.85E-12 NE=1.45 >> + RB=10 RE=0.5 RC=0.5 CJE=3.5E-11 VJE=0.75 CJC=1.1E-11 VJC=0.75 >> TR=4.76E-8 >> + TF=16N VJS=0.75 ) >> .MODEL PMOD PNP(IS=2E-15 VAF=100 IKF=0.005 ISE=1.9E-12 RB=10 RE=0.5 >> + RC=0.5 CJE=3.5E-11 VJE=0.75 TF=1.6E-8 CJC=1.1E-11 VJC=0.75 TR=5.1E-8 >> + TF=16N VJS=0.75 ) >> .ENDS 2N6027DK >> >> What caught my eye was unusually low IKF (50x smaller than a 2N2222) >> for a discrete bipolar device... and unusually high ISE (10x that of a >> 2N2222). >> >> My bet is I will be able to relate those parameters to peak, valley >> and hold-off currents. >> >> So a "PUT" amounts to a special case of an SCR structure >> >> Fun stuff!. >> >> ...Jim Thompson >> > >IIRC the gate is opposite polarity to an SCR, but then it's over 15 >years since I used one. > >Cheers > >Phil HobbsExactly! I don't what they're good for in modern day electronics, but it's been an amusing exercise in deciphering the Spice model. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
LTSpice
Started by ●September 10, 2013
Reply by ●September 14, 20132013-09-14
Reply by ●September 14, 20132013-09-14
On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 12:09:33 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:>On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:50:28 -0400, Phil Hobbs ><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >>On 9/14/2013 2:24 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 09:40:34 -0700, Jim Thompson >>> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 12:30:02 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 9/14/2013 12:15 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 02:19:16 +0000 (UTC), Don Kuenz >>>>>> <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:14:33 -0700, Jim Thompson >>>>>>>> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:55:33 -0700, RobertMacy >>>>>>>>> <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:38:57 -0700, Jim Thompson >>>>>>>>>> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 07:13:46 -0700, RobertMacy >>>>>>>>>>> <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ..snip... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Did you look through the 100+MB of Alex Bordodynov's models? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I only could download one set, not the larger set, so couldn't peruse. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I've seen that name on the LTspice list. Do you have a link to his >>>>>>>>>>> site? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ...snip... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> His models usually are accurate and have conversion speed enhancements. He >>>>>>>>>> supplied two links, circa July 5, 2013, posted to the LTspice group, which >>>>>>>>>> I trashed after downloading each. Big mistake! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> LTspiceIV.zip is 37MB of 'tiny' little .asc files so you have an idea how >>>>>>>>>> many models are in there. >>>>>>>>>> LTSPICE.DOC is 67MB and dialup download took HOURS!!! only to find out >>>>>>>>>> today that when unzipping, comes up 'corrupted' download again! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks. That will allow me to find it. As you know, I keep a record >>>>>>>>> of everything... even an LTspice list directory "Pre_2013" ;-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Found it. How do I download, it's all in Russian, and I can't get the >>>>>>>>> download to start :-( >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Here you go... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <http://us.ua/1162032/> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kill the pop-up on the lower left, then you can download. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for sharing Jim. Here's a more Anglo friendly link. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://ltwiki.org/index.php5?title=Components_Library_and_Circuits >>>>>> >>>>>> Here's something to fret over, compare Unijunction models, wonder >>>>>> which is real... >>>>>> >>>>>> <http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/CompareUnijunctionModels.pdf> >>>>>> >>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Probably neither--this is SPICE we're talking about. ;0 >>>>> >>>>> I've used PUTs (2N6028) in laser interlocks, where I needed to be sure >>>>> that there wouldn't be any weird behaviour on power-up or with transients. >>>>> >>>>> BTW kudos for working to pass stuff along to the next generation. Now >>>>> all you have to do is start writing for real. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> >>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>> >>>> I suspect the MicroSim/Motorola/THYRYSTR.lib is pretty close. It's >>>> certainly complex enough ;-) >>>> >>>> ...Jim Thompson >>> >>> After some more head-scratching, and dumping the ancient single >>> junction (Unijunction) device and looking only at the "PUT" (4-layer >>> device), the _only_ two transistor model makes sense... >>> >>> *Programmable Unijunction Transistor pkg: TO-226AA, Don Kuenz >>> * .SUBCKT 2N6027DK 1 2 3 >>> .SUBCKT 2N6027DK 2 1 3 ; B2 E B1 >>> ************** K1 G K2 >>> Q1 2 4 3 NMOD >>> Q2 4 2 1 PMOD >>> .MODEL NMOD NPN(IS=5E-15 VAF=100 IKF=0.005 ISE=1.85E-12 NE=1.45 >>> + RB=10 RE=0.5 RC=0.5 CJE=3.5E-11 VJE=0.75 CJC=1.1E-11 VJC=0.75 >>> TR=4.76E-8 >>> + TF=16N VJS=0.75 ) >>> .MODEL PMOD PNP(IS=2E-15 VAF=100 IKF=0.005 ISE=1.9E-12 RB=10 RE=0.5 >>> + RC=0.5 CJE=3.5E-11 VJE=0.75 TF=1.6E-8 CJC=1.1E-11 VJC=0.75 TR=5.1E-8 >>> + TF=16N VJS=0.75 ) >>> .ENDS 2N6027DK >>> >>> What caught my eye was unusually low IKF (50x smaller than a 2N2222) >>> for a discrete bipolar device... and unusually high ISE (10x that of a >>> 2N2222). >>> >>> My bet is I will be able to relate those parameters to peak, valley >>> and hold-off currents. >>> >>> So a "PUT" amounts to a special case of an SCR structure >>> >>> Fun stuff!. >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >>> >> >>IIRC the gate is opposite polarity to an SCR, but then it's over 15 >>years since I used one. >> >>Cheers >> >>Phil Hobbs > >Exactly! I don't what they're good for in modern day electronics, but >it's been an amusing exercise in deciphering the Spice model. > > ...Jim ThompsonReverse breakdown rating of the gate-anode is also much higher in a PUT compared to an SCR gate-cathode (eg. +40V vs. -5V) Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Reply by ●September 14, 20132013-09-14
On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 20:38:12 -0400, Spehro Pefhany <speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:>On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 12:09:33 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:50:28 -0400, Phil Hobbs >><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >> >>>On 9/14/2013 2:24 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 09:40:34 -0700, Jim Thompson >>>> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 12:30:02 -0400, Phil Hobbs >>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 9/14/2013 12:15 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>>>>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 02:19:16 +0000 (UTC), Don Kuenz >>>>>>> <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:14:33 -0700, Jim Thompson >>>>>>>>> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:55:33 -0700, RobertMacy >>>>>>>>>> <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:38:57 -0700, Jim Thompson >>>>>>>>>>> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 07:13:46 -0700, RobertMacy >>>>>>>>>>>> <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ..snip... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Did you look through the 100+MB of Alex Bordodynov's models? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I only could download one set, not the larger set, so couldn't peruse. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I've seen that name on the LTspice list. Do you have a link to his >>>>>>>>>>>> site? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ...snip... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> His models usually are accurate and have conversion speed enhancements. He >>>>>>>>>>> supplied two links, circa July 5, 2013, posted to the LTspice group, which >>>>>>>>>>> I trashed after downloading each. Big mistake! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> LTspiceIV.zip is 37MB of 'tiny' little .asc files so you have an idea how >>>>>>>>>>> many models are in there. >>>>>>>>>>> LTSPICE.DOC is 67MB and dialup download took HOURS!!! only to find out >>>>>>>>>>> today that when unzipping, comes up 'corrupted' download again! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks. That will allow me to find it. As you know, I keep a record >>>>>>>>>> of everything... even an LTspice list directory "Pre_2013" ;-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Found it. How do I download, it's all in Russian, and I can't get the >>>>>>>>>> download to start :-( >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Here you go... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <http://us.ua/1162032/> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Kill the pop-up on the lower left, then you can download. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you for sharing Jim. Here's a more Anglo friendly link. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://ltwiki.org/index.php5?title=Components_Library_and_Circuits >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here's something to fret over, compare Unijunction models, wonder >>>>>>> which is real... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/CompareUnijunctionModels.pdf> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Probably neither--this is SPICE we're talking about. ;0 >>>>>> >>>>>> I've used PUTs (2N6028) in laser interlocks, where I needed to be sure >>>>>> that there wouldn't be any weird behaviour on power-up or with transients. >>>>>> >>>>>> BTW kudos for working to pass stuff along to the next generation. Now >>>>>> all you have to do is start writing for real. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>> >>>>> I suspect the MicroSim/Motorola/THYRYSTR.lib is pretty close. It's >>>>> certainly complex enough ;-) >>>>> >>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>> >>>> After some more head-scratching, and dumping the ancient single >>>> junction (Unijunction) device and looking only at the "PUT" (4-layer >>>> device), the _only_ two transistor model makes sense... >>>> >>>> *Programmable Unijunction Transistor pkg: TO-226AA, Don Kuenz >>>> * .SUBCKT 2N6027DK 1 2 3 >>>> .SUBCKT 2N6027DK 2 1 3 ; B2 E B1 >>>> ************** K1 G K2 >>>> Q1 2 4 3 NMOD >>>> Q2 4 2 1 PMOD >>>> .MODEL NMOD NPN(IS=5E-15 VAF=100 IKF=0.005 ISE=1.85E-12 NE=1.45 >>>> + RB=10 RE=0.5 RC=0.5 CJE=3.5E-11 VJE=0.75 CJC=1.1E-11 VJC=0.75 >>>> TR=4.76E-8 >>>> + TF=16N VJS=0.75 ) >>>> .MODEL PMOD PNP(IS=2E-15 VAF=100 IKF=0.005 ISE=1.9E-12 RB=10 RE=0.5 >>>> + RC=0.5 CJE=3.5E-11 VJE=0.75 TF=1.6E-8 CJC=1.1E-11 VJC=0.75 TR=5.1E-8 >>>> + TF=16N VJS=0.75 ) >>>> .ENDS 2N6027DK >>>> >>>> What caught my eye was unusually low IKF (50x smaller than a 2N2222) >>>> for a discrete bipolar device... and unusually high ISE (10x that of a >>>> 2N2222). >>>> >>>> My bet is I will be able to relate those parameters to peak, valley >>>> and hold-off currents. >>>> >>>> So a "PUT" amounts to a special case of an SCR structure >>>> >>>> Fun stuff!. >>>> >>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>> >>> >>>IIRC the gate is opposite polarity to an SCR, but then it's over 15 >>>years since I used one. >>> >>>Cheers >>> >>>Phil Hobbs >> >>Exactly! I don't what they're good for in modern day electronics, but >>it's been an amusing exercise in deciphering the Spice model. >> >> ...Jim Thompson > >Reverse breakdown rating of the gate-anode is also much higher in a >PUT compared to an SCR gate-cathode (eg. +40V vs. -5V) > > >Best regards, >Spehro PefhanyI gathered that from the IKF/ISE numbers. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by ●September 14, 20132013-09-14
Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote:> On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:50:28 -0400, Phil Hobbs > <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:>>IIRC the gate is opposite polarity to an SCR, but then it's over 15 >>years since I used one. >> >>Cheers >> >>Phil Hobbs > > Exactly! I don't what they're good for in modern day electronics, but > it's been an amusing exercise in deciphering the Spice model.In my case, the absence of UJT model gives me a decent excuse for delving deeper into LTSpice. My UJT forms a relaxation oscillator in hardware designed during the early 1970s. It's my understanding that the relaxation oscillator was a classic UJT application for that era, but others know best. Thank you again Jim for sharing all of your Spice data both in this thread and other threads. :) -- Don Kuenz
Reply by ●September 19, 20132013-09-19
Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote:> On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 02:19:16 +0000 (UTC), Don Kuenz > <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote: > >>Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: >>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:14:33 -0700, Jim Thompson >>> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:55:33 -0700, RobertMacy >>>><robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:38:57 -0700, Jim Thompson >>>>><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 07:13:46 -0700, RobertMacy >>>>>> <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> ..snip... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Did you look through the 100+MB of Alex Bordodynov's models? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I only could download one set, not the larger set, so couldn't peruse. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've seen that name on the LTspice list. Do you have a link to his >>>>>> site? >>>>>> >>>>>> ...snip... >>>>>> >>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>> >>>>>His models usually are accurate and have conversion speed enhancements. He >>>>>supplied two links, circa July 5, 2013, posted to the LTspice group, which >>>>>I trashed after downloading each. Big mistake! >>>>> >>>>>LTspiceIV.zip is 37MB of 'tiny' little .asc files so you have an idea how >>>>>many models are in there. >>>>>LTSPICE.DOC is 67MB and dialup download took HOURS!!! only to find out >>>>>today that when unzipping, comes up 'corrupted' download again! >>>>> >>>> >>>>Thanks. That will allow me to find it. As you know, I keep a record >>>>of everything... even an LTspice list directory "Pre_2013" ;-) >>>> >>>>Found it. How do I download, it's all in Russian, and I can't get the >>>>download to start :-( >>>> >>>> ...Jim Thompson >>> >>> Here you go... >>> >>> <http://us.ua/1162032/> >>> >>> Kill the pop-up on the lower left, then you can download. >> >>Thank you for sharing Jim. Here's a more Anglo friendly link. >> >>http://ltwiki.org/index.php5?title=Components_Library_and_Circuits > > Here's something to fret over, compare Unijunction models, wonder > which is real... > > <http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/CompareUnijunctionModels.pdf>None of the above accurately models the DC component when a 2N4870 is used in the test circuit. The measured 2N4870 DC excursion is from about -1V to about +0.25V (IIRC). The 2N2646 in THYRYSTR.LIB comes closest to the AC component, except the observed peaks are much flatter, which makes the waveform look like a pulse with about a 90% duty cycle. Bordodynov keeps his 2N2646 in a file named Ujt&Put.lib. I may fiddle with this obsolete technology a bit more for the sake of delving deeper into SPICE modeling. Is the Common 2 Transistor Model worth describing? -- Don Kuenz
Reply by ●September 19, 20132013-09-19
On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 05:18:26 +0000 (UTC), Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote:>Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: >> On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 02:19:16 +0000 (UTC), Don Kuenz >> <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote: >> >>>Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: >>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:14:33 -0700, Jim Thompson >>>> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>>On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:55:33 -0700, RobertMacy >>>>><robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:38:57 -0700, Jim Thompson >>>>>><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 07:13:46 -0700, RobertMacy >>>>>>> <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ..snip... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Did you look through the 100+MB of Alex Bordodynov's models? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I only could download one set, not the larger set, so couldn't peruse. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've seen that name on the LTspice list. Do you have a link to his >>>>>>> site? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ...snip... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>> >>>>>>His models usually are accurate and have conversion speed enhancements. He >>>>>>supplied two links, circa July 5, 2013, posted to the LTspice group, which >>>>>>I trashed after downloading each. Big mistake! >>>>>> >>>>>>LTspiceIV.zip is 37MB of 'tiny' little .asc files so you have an idea how >>>>>>many models are in there. >>>>>>LTSPICE.DOC is 67MB and dialup download took HOURS!!! only to find out >>>>>>today that when unzipping, comes up 'corrupted' download again! >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Thanks. That will allow me to find it. As you know, I keep a record >>>>>of everything... even an LTspice list directory "Pre_2013" ;-) >>>>> >>>>>Found it. How do I download, it's all in Russian, and I can't get the >>>>>download to start :-( >>>>> >>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>> >>>> Here you go... >>>> >>>> <http://us.ua/1162032/> >>>> >>>> Kill the pop-up on the lower left, then you can download. >>> >>>Thank you for sharing Jim. Here's a more Anglo friendly link. >>> >>>http://ltwiki.org/index.php5?title=Components_Library_and_Circuits >> >> Here's something to fret over, compare Unijunction models, wonder >> which is real... >> >> <http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/CompareUnijunctionModels.pdf> > >None of the above accurately models the DC component when a 2N4870 is >used in the test circuit. The measured 2N4870 DC excursion is from about >-1V to about +0.25V (IIRC). The 2N2646 in THYRYSTR.LIB comes closest to >the AC component, except the observed peaks are much flatter, which >makes the waveform look like a pulse with about a 90% duty cycle. > >Bordodynov keeps his 2N2646 in a file named Ujt&Put.lib. I may fiddle >with this obsolete technology a bit more for the sake of delving deeper >into SPICE modeling. Is the Common 2 Transistor Model worth describing?The common two-transistor version models PUT's quite well, I have to research the UJT curves and see if I can fit a parametric equation. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by ●September 19, 20132013-09-19
On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 22:34:08 -0700, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:>On Thu, 19 Sep 2013 05:18:26 +0000 (UTC), Don Kuenz ><garbage@crcomp.net> wrote: > >>Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: >>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2013 02:19:16 +0000 (UTC), Don Kuenz >>> <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote: >>> >>>>Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 09:14:33 -0700, Jim Thompson >>>>> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:55:33 -0700, RobertMacy >>>>>><robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 08:38:57 -0700, Jim Thompson >>>>>>><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2013 07:13:46 -0700, RobertMacy >>>>>>>> <robert.a.macy@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ..snip... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Did you look through the 100+MB of Alex Bordodynov's models? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I only could download one set, not the larger set, so couldn't peruse. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I've seen that name on the LTspice list. Do you have a link to his >>>>>>>> site? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ...snip... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>>>> >>>>>>>His models usually are accurate and have conversion speed enhancements. He >>>>>>>supplied two links, circa July 5, 2013, posted to the LTspice group, which >>>>>>>I trashed after downloading each. Big mistake! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>LTspiceIV.zip is 37MB of 'tiny' little .asc files so you have an idea how >>>>>>>many models are in there. >>>>>>>LTSPICE.DOC is 67MB and dialup download took HOURS!!! only to find out >>>>>>>today that when unzipping, comes up 'corrupted' download again! >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Thanks. That will allow me to find it. As you know, I keep a record >>>>>>of everything... even an LTspice list directory "Pre_2013" ;-) >>>>>> >>>>>>Found it. How do I download, it's all in Russian, and I can't get the >>>>>>download to start :-( >>>>>> >>>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>> >>>>> Here you go... >>>>> >>>>> <http://us.ua/1162032/> >>>>> >>>>> Kill the pop-up on the lower left, then you can download. >>>> >>>>Thank you for sharing Jim. Here's a more Anglo friendly link. >>>> >>>>http://ltwiki.org/index.php5?title=Components_Library_and_Circuits >>> >>> Here's something to fret over, compare Unijunction models, wonder >>> which is real... >>> >>> <http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/CompareUnijunctionModels.pdf> >> >>None of the above accurately models the DC component when a 2N4870 is >>used in the test circuit. The measured 2N4870 DC excursion is from about >>-1V to about +0.25V (IIRC). The 2N2646 in THYRYSTR.LIB comes closest to >>the AC component, except the observed peaks are much flatter, which >>makes the waveform look like a pulse with about a 90% duty cycle. >> >>Bordodynov keeps his 2N2646 in a file named Ujt&Put.lib. I may fiddle >>with this obsolete technology a bit more for the sake of delving deeper >>into SPICE modeling. Is the Common 2 Transistor Model worth describing? > >The common two-transistor version models PUT's quite well, > >I have to research the UJT curves and see if I can fit a parametric >equation. > > ...Jim ThompsonBut I did just check PS currents. Dandy match to load current _UNTIL_ railing, then bizarro... giga-amps >:-} I think they don't check their modeling work there at Analog Devices... just sling shit together. Studying their OpAmp models, it appears to be just a fill-in-the-blanks netlist :-( ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
