Forums

hurricanes

Started by John Larkin August 24, 2013
"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message 
news:tadl199fpb3jekg4fm9r5k8t3h7cd1aaur@4ax.com...
> You worry about burning corn for energy, but you're willing to burn > coal? Coal is a hydrocarbon that can be "cracked" just like crude > oil. Theoretically, with proper processing, it can be made edible: > <http://www.convertunits.com/from/tonne+of+coal+equivalent/to/calorie+%5Bnutritional%5D> > 1,000 kg of coal is equivalent to 7,000 food calories. If it can be > done, you could live on 1/2 kg of processed coal per day.
Mmmm, all that charcoal will absorb toxins, plus the trace minerals in the ash content must be great! ;o) Downside being, Fischer-Troph takes three tonnes of coal, burns one, and makes a bit over two tonnes of oil. It's not a very efficient process. Turning that into something edible like alcohol (ethanol is indeed a biological source of energy), acid (acetic acid is even more available, but don't forget energy-rich fatty acids, too) or sugar (???) would be even more steps processing, and could only be used to supplement the energy content of animal feed*. Also, if cropland is zero-sum (notice it hasn't been; systems like this could continue the trend), ofsetting energy crops for actually delicious food crops is the same as eating coal, without the unpleasant aftertaste (or, lack of taste entirely). *I suppose in a Soylent Green kind of future, the FDA might agree to supplement food squares with petroleum derivatives. At this time, I don't think there's any way to qualify something like that for human consumption? Example: industrial ethanol (i.e., petroleum derived) is more than pure enough (before denaturing, of course) to drink safely, but it's not FDA approved, so, no dice. AFAIK, anything sold as liquor can only be distilled from fermented mash, even if it's objectively more toxic (Fleischmann's vodka?) than such alternatives. Still other ideas... some day it would be fantastic to see a catalyst which can turn electricity into fuel, for example, electrolytically reducing CO2 to methanol (which can then be processed as a petroleum feedstock). The process already exists -- the efficiency stinks. Electricity is even more inefficient to generate, anyway (the best power plants are 60% I think?), so one might further hope for a photon-to-fuel catalyst. Plants do this, but again, are rather inefficient (supposedly the best energy crops are around 2%?). Tim -- Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk. Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com
On Tuesday, 27 August 2013 02:34:47 UTC+10, Tim Williams  wrote:
> "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@gmail.com> wrote in message =20 > news:0f709976-d44c-448d-8bcd-a7a7dd42e6c3@googlegroups.com... >=20 > > Your scheme for improving growth rates in green-houses by adding extra =
=20
> > CO2 to the air has been implemented in lots of places. =20 >=20 > Ah but I didn't say "adding CO2 to air", I said "make the air CO2"!
Pity about that. Increasing the CO2 content above 1000ppm (2.5 times more C= O2 than we now have in open air) doesn't produce significantly faster growt= h with the plants we've got around, and making the atmosphere pure CO2 is d= amnably expensive (as you'd know if you'd read anything about CO2 sequestra= tion). Breeding plants that would do well with CO2 contents above 1000ppm might sh= ift this boundary, but looking at fossil plants tells us that plants growin= g at past times when CO2 levels were quite a lot higher adapted by having f= ewer stomata in their leaves, trading off CO2 flow into the leaf against wa= ter vapour flow out, which doesn't suggest that the plants themselves would= metabolise CO2 much faster when exposed to more of it. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v411/n6835/abs/411287a0.html seems to be saying that CO2 levels have typically been between 1000ppm and = 2000ppm over most of last few hundred million years - pretty much since the= re's been multi-cellular life on the planet - with occasional spikes over 2= 000ppm. The fact that the earth as a whole does fine with CO2 levels above 1000ppm = isn't an argument for us to be complacent about rising CO2 levels. The most= recent spike in CO2 levels saw a lot of mammalian species (amongst others)= going extinct, and a lot of new species evolving to fill the gaps created = by population crashes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleocene%E2%80%93Eocene_Thermal_Maximum Our ecosystem has spent the past few million years adapting to CO2 levels r= unning between 180ppm (during ice ages) and 300ppm (during inter-glacials). Forcing it to adapt to 400ppm is already producing quite a few extinctions,= and pushing it further isn't going to help our ecosystem or our agricultu= re. <snipped ill-informed speculation> --=20 Bill Sloman, Sydney
On 26 Aug 2013 11:59:35 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote:

>On 2013-08-25, krw@attt.bizz <krw@attt.bizz> wrote: >> On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:28:02 -0700, John Larkin >><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/screenhunter_19-may-08-06-04.jpg >> >> http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/08/24/slowest-start-to-a-hurricane-season-on-record/ >> >> Global warming, you know. > >perhaps all the tornadoes and wildfires scared them off?
I heard an interview with a sort of paleo-forestry guy. He has studied tree rings and such and concluded that, in the couple of thousand years prior to 1800, about 10% of California forest land burned every year. They were smallish burns, basically brush fires, and the big trees, the pines and oaks and redwoods, survived... prospered, even, as competitors and pests were killed off. Now that we are putting out fires, we get less frequent but much bigger fires. The California forest fire problem is man-made, but it's not about climate change. -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 07:01:27 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

>On 26 Aug 2013 11:59:35 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote: > >>On 2013-08-25, krw@attt.bizz <krw@attt.bizz> wrote: >>> On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:28:02 -0700, John Larkin >>><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/screenhunter_19-may-08-06-04.jpg >>> >>> http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/08/24/slowest-start-to-a-hurricane-season-on-record/ >>> >>> Global warming, you know. >> >>perhaps all the tornadoes and wildfires scared them off? > >I heard an interview with a sort of paleo-forestry guy. He has studied tree >rings and such and concluded that, in the couple of thousand years prior to >1800, about 10% of California forest land burned every year. They were smallish >burns, basically brush fires, and the big trees, the pines and oaks and >redwoods, survived... prospered, even, as competitors and pests were killed off. > >Now that we are putting out fires, we get less frequent but much bigger fires. >The California forest fire problem is man-made, but it's not about climate >change. > >
Yep. Back when "clear-cutting" was the norm in the lumber business, we had very few major fires. Then the greenies came along. I always find it delightful when it's their house that burns down >:-} ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 08:20:27 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 07:01:27 -0700, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >>On 26 Aug 2013 11:59:35 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote: >> >>>On 2013-08-25, krw@attt.bizz <krw@attt.bizz> wrote: >>>> On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:28:02 -0700, John Larkin >>>><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/screenhunter_19-may-08-06-04.jpg >>>> >>>> http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/08/24/slowest-start-to-a-hurricane-season-on-record/ >>>> >>>> Global warming, you know. >>> >>>perhaps all the tornadoes and wildfires scared them off? >> >>I heard an interview with a sort of paleo-forestry guy. He has studied tree >>rings and such and concluded that, in the couple of thousand years prior to >>1800, about 10% of California forest land burned every year. They were smallish >>burns, basically brush fires, and the big trees, the pines and oaks and >>redwoods, survived... prospered, even, as competitors and pests were killed off. >> >>Now that we are putting out fires, we get less frequent but much bigger fires. >>The California forest fire problem is man-made, but it's not about climate >>change. >> >> > >Yep. Back when "clear-cutting" was the norm in the lumber business, >we had very few major fires. Then the greenies came along. I always >find it delightful when it's their house that burns down >:-} > > ...Jim Thompson
Of course. You always delight in the misfortune of others. You are a mean, nasty old git. -- John Larkin Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 08:29:28 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 08:20:27 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 07:01:27 -0700, John Larkin >><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> >>>On 26 Aug 2013 11:59:35 GMT, Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote: >>> >>>>On 2013-08-25, krw@attt.bizz <krw@attt.bizz> wrote: >>>>> On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:28:02 -0700, John Larkin >>>>><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/screenhunter_19-may-08-06-04.jpg >>>>> >>>>> http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/08/24/slowest-start-to-a-hurricane-season-on-record/ >>>>> >>>>> Global warming, you know. >>>> >>>>perhaps all the tornadoes and wildfires scared them off? >>> >>>I heard an interview with a sort of paleo-forestry guy. He has studied tree >>>rings and such and concluded that, in the couple of thousand years prior to >>>1800, about 10% of California forest land burned every year. They were smallish >>>burns, basically brush fires, and the big trees, the pines and oaks and >>>redwoods, survived... prospered, even, as competitors and pests were killed off. >>> >>>Now that we are putting out fires, we get less frequent but much bigger fires. >>>The California forest fire problem is man-made, but it's not about climate >>>change. >>> >>> >> >>Yep. Back when "clear-cutting" was the norm in the lumber business, >>we had very few major fires. Then the greenies came along. I always >>find it delightful when it's their house that burns down >:-} >> >> ...Jim Thompson > >Of course. You always delight in the misfortune of others. You are a mean, nasty >old git.
Schadenfreude is best enjoyed when the victim is the initiator of the problem. (Darwin-award-style :-) As for you, if you don't knock off the nonsense, I'm going to beat the crap out of you with my cane >:-} ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
John Larkin wrote:
> On 26 Aug 2013 11:59:35 GMT, Jasen Betts<jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote: > >> On 2013-08-25, krw@attt.bizz<krw@attt.bizz> wrote: >>> On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:28:02 -0700, John Larkin >>> <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/screenhunter_19-may-08-06-04.jpg >>> >>> http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/08/24/slowest-start-to-a-hurricane-season-on-record/ >>> >>> Global warming, you know. >> >> perhaps all the tornadoes and wildfires scared them off? > > I heard an interview with a sort of paleo-forestry guy. He has studied tree > rings and such and concluded that, in the couple of thousand years prior to > 1800, about 10% of California forest land burned every year. They were smallish > burns, basically brush fires, and the big trees, the pines and oaks and > redwoods, survived... prospered, even, as competitors and pests were killed off. > > Now that we are putting out fires, we get less frequent but much bigger fires. > The California forest fire problem is man-made, but it's not about climate > change. > >
The thing about that, was that fact was KNOWN at least 20 years ago.. The ads using Smokey the Bear were stopped due to the knowledge,i think.
John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 08:20:27 -0700, Jim Thompson > <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >> On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 07:01:27 -0700, John Larkin >> <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> >>> On 26 Aug 2013 11:59:35 GMT, Jasen Betts<jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2013-08-25, krw@attt.bizz<krw@attt.bizz> wrote: >>>>> On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:28:02 -0700, John Larkin >>>>> <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/screenhunter_19-may-08-06-04.jpg >>>>> >>>>> http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/08/24/slowest-start-to-a-hurricane-season-on-record/ >>>>> >>>>> Global warming, you know. >>>> >>>> perhaps all the tornadoes and wildfires scared them off? >>> >>> I heard an interview with a sort of paleo-forestry guy. He has studied tree >>> rings and such and concluded that, in the couple of thousand years prior to >>> 1800, about 10% of California forest land burned every year. They were smallish >>> burns, basically brush fires, and the big trees, the pines and oaks and >>> redwoods, survived... prospered, even, as competitors and pests were killed off. >>> >>> Now that we are putting out fires, we get less frequent but much bigger fires. >>> The California forest fire problem is man-made, but it's not about climate >>> change. >>> >>> >> >> Yep. Back when "clear-cutting" was the norm in the lumber business, >> we had very few major fires. Then the greenies came along. I always >> find it delightful when it's their house that burns down>:-} >> >> ...Jim Thompson > > Of course. You always delight in the misfortune of others. You are a mean, nasty > old git. > >
Methinks you missed his point (by a mile).
On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 11:59:04 -0800, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

>John Larkin wrote: >> On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 08:20:27 -0700, Jim Thompson >> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 07:01:27 -0700, John Larkin >>> <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 26 Aug 2013 11:59:35 GMT, Jasen Betts<jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 2013-08-25, krw@attt.bizz<krw@attt.bizz> wrote: >>>>>> On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:28:02 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>> <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/screenhunter_19-may-08-06-04.jpg >>>>>> >>>>>> http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/08/24/slowest-start-to-a-hurricane-season-on-record/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Global warming, you know. >>>>> >>>>> perhaps all the tornadoes and wildfires scared them off? >>>> >>>> I heard an interview with a sort of paleo-forestry guy. He has studied tree >>>> rings and such and concluded that, in the couple of thousand years prior to >>>> 1800, about 10% of California forest land burned every year. They were smallish >>>> burns, basically brush fires, and the big trees, the pines and oaks and >>>> redwoods, survived... prospered, even, as competitors and pests were killed off. >>>> >>>> Now that we are putting out fires, we get less frequent but much bigger fires. >>>> The California forest fire problem is man-made, but it's not about climate >>>> change. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Yep. Back when "clear-cutting" was the norm in the lumber business, >>> we had very few major fires. Then the greenies came along. I always >>> find it delightful when it's their house that burns down>:-} >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >> >> Of course. You always delight in the misfortune of others. You are a mean, nasty >> old git. >> >> > Methinks you missed his point (by a mile).
It was intentional. Larkin _is_actually_ the mean, nasty, senile old git here. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 11:59:04 -0800, Robert Baer
<robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:

>John Larkin wrote: >> On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 08:20:27 -0700, Jim Thompson >> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 27 Aug 2013 07:01:27 -0700, John Larkin >>> <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 26 Aug 2013 11:59:35 GMT, Jasen Betts<jasen@xnet.co.nz> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 2013-08-25, krw@attt.bizz<krw@attt.bizz> wrote: >>>>>> On Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:28:02 -0700, John Larkin >>>>>> <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/screenhunter_19-may-08-06-04.jpg >>>>>> >>>>>> http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2013/08/24/slowest-start-to-a-hurricane-season-on-record/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Global warming, you know. >>>>> >>>>> perhaps all the tornadoes and wildfires scared them off? >>>> >>>> I heard an interview with a sort of paleo-forestry guy. He has studied tree >>>> rings and such and concluded that, in the couple of thousand years prior to >>>> 1800, about 10% of California forest land burned every year. They were smallish >>>> burns, basically brush fires, and the big trees, the pines and oaks and >>>> redwoods, survived... prospered, even, as competitors and pests were killed off. >>>> >>>> Now that we are putting out fires, we get less frequent but much bigger fires. >>>> The California forest fire problem is man-made, but it's not about climate >>>> change. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Yep. Back when "clear-cutting" was the norm in the lumber business, >>> we had very few major fires. Then the greenies came along. I always >>> find it delightful when it's their house that burns down>:-} >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >> >> Of course. You always delight in the misfortune of others. You are a mean, nasty >> old git. >> >> > Methinks you missed his point (by a mile).
His point is that he'd be delighted by someone's house burning down. I suppose their children dying in the fire would be an extra bonus for him. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com http://www.highlandtechnology.com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom laser drivers and controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro acquisition and simulation