the PDP-11 lives!

Ecnerwal wrote:
> 
> In article ?8v84s8lfsj28jqatg31oadr2vlva1f4jqt@4ax.com?,
>  John Larkin ?jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com? wrote:
> 
> ? http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/
> 
> So the thing in my shed is valuable spare parts for a nuclear plant, not
> old junque I'm dumb enough to pick up and take home with me? Gosh, where
> are the nuke plant boys looking for spare parts, I'll make them such a
> deal...unless it's an 8. I think it's an 11, but I haven't looked at in
> in a while. IIRC it ran RSX-11, which would seem to increase the odds
> that it's an 11, unless it doesn't. I have some 256Kb tape drives in a
> different shed. Yep, that's right, a whole 256K on a cute little
> computer cassette. In both cases I figured the power supply and case
> would be the parts worth the bother of dragging them home, but I could
> be talked into changing my mind for adequate nuke-plant money...


   I have a pile of memory boards made by National Semiconductor, but
they may be for the VAX.

On 6/19/2013 9:38 PM, Ecnerwal wrote:
> In article <8v84s8lfsj28jqatg31oadr2vlva1f4jqt@4ax.com>,
>   John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/
>
> So the thing in my shed is valuable spare parts for a nuclear plant, not
> old junque I'm dumb enough to pick up and take home with me? Gosh, where
> are the nuke plant boys looking for spare parts, I'll make them such a
> deal...unless it's an 8. I think it's an 11, but I haven't looked at in
> in a while. IIRC it ran RSX-11, which would seem to increase the odds
> that it's an 11, unless it doesn't. I have some 256Kb tape drives in a
> different shed. Yep, that's right, a whole 256K on a cute little
> computer cassette. In both cases I figured the power supply and case
> would be the parts worth the bother of dragging them home, but I could
> be talked into changing my mind for adequate nuke-plant money...
>
If the nuke plant doesn't want the racks, I could use another one. ;)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

-- 
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 USA
+1 845 480 2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

On 6/20/2013 8:39 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> On 6/19/2013 9:38 PM, Ecnerwal wrote:
>> In article <8v84s8lfsj28jqatg31oadr2vlva1f4jqt@4ax.com>,
>>   John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/
>>>
>>
>> So the thing in my shed is valuable spare parts for a nuclear plant, not
>> old junque I'm dumb enough to pick up and take home with me? Gosh, where
>> are the nuke plant boys looking for spare parts, I'll make them such a
>> deal...unless it's an 8. I think it's an 11, but I haven't looked at in
>> in a while. IIRC it ran RSX-11, which would seem to increase the odds
>> that it's an 11, unless it doesn't. I have some 256Kb tape drives in a
>> different shed. Yep, that's right, a whole 256K on a cute little
>> computer cassette. In both cases I figured the power supply and case
>> would be the parts worth the bother of dragging them home, but I could
>> be talked into changing my mind for adequate nuke-plant money...
>>
> If the nuke plant doesn't want the racks, I could use another one. ;)

And you can save on lighting, as I am sure they glow in the dark !


>
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs
>

Phil Hobbs wrote:
> 
> On 6/19/2013 9:38 PM, Ecnerwal wrote:
> > In article <8v84s8lfsj28jqatg31oadr2vlva1f4jqt@4ax.com>,
> >   John Larkin <jlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/
> >
> > So the thing in my shed is valuable spare parts for a nuclear plant, not
> > old junque I'm dumb enough to pick up and take home with me? Gosh, where
> > are the nuke plant boys looking for spare parts, I'll make them such a
> > deal...unless it's an 8. I think it's an 11, but I haven't looked at in
> > in a while. IIRC it ran RSX-11, which would seem to increase the odds
> > that it's an 11, unless it doesn't. I have some 256Kb tape drives in a
> > different shed. Yep, that's right, a whole 256K on a cute little
> > computer cassette. In both cases I figured the power supply and case
> > would be the parts worth the bother of dragging them home, but I could
> > be talked into changing my mind for adequate nuke-plant money...
> >
> If the nuke plant doesn't want the racks, I could use another one. ;)


  One of my benches started its life as a PDP-8, in dual racks with a
center spacer.  It came out of a factory in Dayton.  I bought it and a
Bogen MX60 amp from a small surplus shop for $100 and sold the amp for
$100 two days later.  On top of that, the surplus shop owner gave me
about 20 pounds of new tubes sockets.  How's that for scrounging? :)

   I paid $50 for a blue Tektronix rack about 25 years ago.  It has that
nice chrome plated casting that says Tektronix. :)

On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 5:34:51 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
> 
> 
> 
> jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com
> 
> http://www.highlandtechnology.com
> 
> 
> 
> Precision electronic instrumentation
> 
> Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators
> 
> Custom laser drivers and controllers
> 
> Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links
> 
> VME thermocouple, LVDT, synchro   acquisition and simulation

This looks like something produced by former DEC people:
http://www.dbit.com/

I don't think GE is actually using that ancient wire-wrapped kluge for the CPU.

On Thu, 20 Jun 2013 11:22:24 -0700 (PDT),
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:

><snip>

>This looks like something produced by former DEC people:
>http://www.dbit.com/
>
> I don't think GE is actually using that ancient wire-wrapped
> kluge for the CPU.

If it doesn't sport a PDP-11/70 or PDP-11/45 front panel,
it's not a PDP-11. I don't care about how good the emulation
might be. I need lights and switches that work right. (Toggle
in bootstraps, etc.) I also would need a working paper tape
reader and punch. Would help immensely to also include an
ASR-33 or KSR-35. These human interfaces are very important.
But most especially the front panel. The rest may be
negotiable. But not the front panel.

Jon

Klaus Bahner wrote:
> On 19-06-2013 23:34, John Larkin wrote:
>>
>>
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/
>>
>>
>>
> Well, software is one thing - hardware another.
> While there may be some good reasons to keep a PDP-11 from a software
> point of view, I wonder how you should be able to keep the hardware
> going. And while the software may be solid and safe, what does that help
> if the hardware is failing all the time.
> 
> I had once the "pleasure" of keeping a Nord-10
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nord-10) running until it was replaced in
> 2002. Hardware failures/problems where they major hurdle. Just thinking
> of trying to keep such a machine in a reliable condition until 2050
> gives me the creeps. This appears to push obsolescence problems to the
> next level.
> 

In America, obtaining vintage spare parts is often not an insurmountable
problem:

http://www.psds.com/vaxpdp-11-systems.html
http://www.tcdigital.com/content/dec_display_category.cfm/category_id/102.htm
http://www.comwaretech.com/GenRad/GenRad-parts.html

It's like with cars. I once drove a guy to an auto parts dealer. Asked
him for which vehicle he needed something. A 1950's Chevy. Asked him
whether he called and ordered it. "Nope, they always have that stuff"
... and they did.

If you need semiconductors from the days of Methusaleh you can get them
made:

http://www.solitrondevices.com/prodPOWERtRANSISTORS.htm

For discontinued ICs this would be a source:

http://www.lansdale.com/product_info.php

Hardware problems are usually easy to fix on such old machines if the
board isn't potted (so you may not be able to do that on a PDP-11 from
an oil rig, for example), as long as one can obtain the semiconductors
that need to be replaced. It is pretty rare that a whole circuit board
goes up in flames and becomes a total loss. If you'd look around my lab
you'd see a few things here and there that are well over half a century
old and work just fine. Usually things that are quite irreplaceable,
like this:

http://www.ohio.edu/people/postr/bapix/Dip_59.htm

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 5:34:51 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/
>>

> This looks like something produced by former DEC people:
> http://www.dbit.com/

Absolutely makes sense. It's only a matter of time before someone writes
an IBM OS/3XX emulator for the PC. It seems reasonable that after three
to five decades, the sunken costs of software applications custom
developed for the IBM mainframe dwarf the cost of developing an
emulator. And Big Blue whatever supercomputers aside, a modern server
built on the PC architecture can probably give most of the Big Blue big
iron a run for its money.

> I don't think GE is actually using that ancient wire-wrapped kluge for the CPU

Wire-wrap? Interesting. This calls for another story about my late dad.

He took me to his office every once in a while. An isolated boring
place. When he disappeared for a while, to attend a meeting or
something, he left me to my own devices. Or, rather, he left me to *his*
own devices. *His* Friden Model STW-10 Electro-Mechanical Calculator
provided geek-style entertainment. Punch enough keys in the proper order
and it played the Friden March:

    http://www.rauck.net/friden/FridenMarch.htm

Anyhow, the most interesting occupants in the whole building were the
bearded guys in the basement, which housed the mainframes and minis.
One day a bearded guy showed me a board pulled out of a computer that he
was in the middle of programming by rearranging a tangled web of yellow
wires on one of its sides. I didn't know the first thing about wire
wrapping at the time.

You got me wondering now if the bearded guy was working on a pdp11
board.

--
Don Kuenz

Don Kuenz explained :
> bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, June 19, 2013 5:34:51 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/
>>> 
>
>> This looks like something produced by former DEC people:
>> http://www.dbit.com/
>
> Absolutely makes sense. It's only a matter of time before someone writes
> an IBM OS/3XX emulator for the PC. It seems reasonable that after three
> to five decades, the sunken costs of software applications custom
> developed for the IBM mainframe dwarf the cost of developing an
> emulator. And Big Blue whatever supercomputers aside, a modern server
> built on the PC architecture can probably give most of the Big Blue big
> iron a run for its money.
>
>> I don't think GE is actually using that ancient wire-wrapped kluge for the 
>> CPU
>
> Wire-wrap? Interesting. This calls for another story about my late dad.
>
> He took me to his office every once in a while. An isolated boring
> place. When he disappeared for a while, to attend a meeting or
> something, he left me to my own devices. Or, rather, he left me to *his*
> own devices. *His* Friden Model STW-10 Electro-Mechanical Calculator
> provided geek-style entertainment. Punch enough keys in the proper order
> and it played the Friden March:
>
>     http://www.rauck.net/friden/FridenMarch.htm
>
> Anyhow, the most interesting occupants in the whole building were the
> bearded guys in the basement, which housed the mainframes and minis.
> One day a bearded guy showed me a board pulled out of a computer that he
> was in the middle of programming by rearranging a tangled web of yellow
> wires on one of its sides. I didn't know the first thing about wire
> wrapping at the time.
>
> You got me wondering now if the bearded guy was working on a pdp11
> board.

All those big IBM mainframes of the 60s, 70s and 80s had a maze of 
yellow wire wraps on the back panels and some other colours, blue 
mostley.

-- 
John G

Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote:
> It's only a matter of time before someone writes an IBM OS/3XX
> emulator for the PC.

There are some people who claim that this has already happened.
http://www.hercules-390.eu/

As shipped, I think this just emulates the hardware; coming up with an
OS image to boot on it is up to you.  Images of some older OS/3xx
versions seem to be publically available.

Matt Roberds