Forums

Low RDSon Logic CMOS Gate

Started by Klaus Kragelund October 1, 2012
Hi

I need a CMOS gate with low voltage drop at about 30mA current source and s=
ink. The tiny logic NL27WZ14 has 600mV drop at 32mA which equates to 18ohm =
RDS on.

I am searching for a device with less than 5-10 ohms and it would need to b=
e ok to parallel to get lower resistance. Also, it must not have to much cr=
ossover shoot-through (so probably schmitt trigger type) and must have low =
dissipation at high operational frequency (1-10MHz)

Any one have a part in mind?

Thanks

Klaus
On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:33:00 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund
<klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Hi > >I need a CMOS gate with low voltage drop at about 30mA current source and sink. The tiny logic NL27WZ14 has 600mV drop at 32mA which equates to 18ohm RDS on. > >I am searching for a device with less than 5-10 ohms and it would need to be ok to parallel to get lower resistance. Also, it must not have to much crossover shoot-through (so probably schmitt trigger type) and must have low dissipation at high operational frequency (1-10MHz) > >Any one have a part in mind? > >Thanks > >Klaus
How about a 6-pack of '04's paralleled? ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:33:00 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund
<klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Hi > >I need a CMOS gate with low voltage drop at about 30mA current source and sink. The tiny logic NL27WZ14 has 600mV drop at 32mA which equates to 18ohm RDS on. > >I am searching for a device with less than 5-10 ohms and it would need to be ok to parallel to get lower resistance. Also, it must not have to much crossover shoot-through (so probably schmitt trigger type) and must have low dissipation at high operational frequency (1-10MHz) > >Any one have a part in mind? > >Thanks > >Klaus
Use something like an HC14, with one section buffering the input, then driving several other sections, up to 5, in parallel. More extreme on speed - sub ns edges - would be an NL37WZ17US, again with one section buffering the input to drive the other two.
On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 10:42:16 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:33:00 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund ><klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>Hi >> >>I need a CMOS gate with low voltage drop at about 30mA current source and sink. The tiny logic NL27WZ14 has 600mV drop at 32mA which equates to 18ohm RDS on. >> >>I am searching for a device with less than 5-10 ohms and it would need to be ok to parallel to get lower resistance. Also, it must not have to much crossover shoot-through (so probably schmitt trigger type) and must have low dissipation at high operational frequency (1-10MHz) >> >>Any one have a part in mind? >> >>Thanks >> >>Klaus > >How about a 6-pack of '04's paralleled? > > ...Jim Thompson
Massive shoot-through.
On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 10:44:44 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:33:00 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund ><klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>Hi >> >>I need a CMOS gate with low voltage drop at about 30mA current source and sink. The tiny logic NL27WZ14 has 600mV drop at 32mA which equates to 18ohm RDS on. >> >>I am searching for a device with less than 5-10 ohms and it would need to be ok to parallel to get lower resistance. Also, it must not have to much crossover shoot-through (so probably schmitt trigger type) and must have low dissipation at high operational frequency (1-10MHz) >> >>Any one have a part in mind? >> >>Thanks >> >>Klaus > >Use something like an HC14, with one section buffering the input, then >driving several other sections, up to 5, in parallel. > >More extreme on speed - sub ns edges - would be an NL37WZ17US, again >with one section buffering the input to drive the other two. >
I don't think that will fix shoot-thru. 'HC14 only fixes slow inputs, so maybe the simple-minded solution is to simply slow down the input to get firm turn-off of drive-low before drive-high (and vice-versa) is activated... say take 10-20ns to get thru the hysteresis ?:-) Or maybe a 1/2-H bridge driven by non-overlapping drives... as demonstrated recently with my delay block? I use that scheme quite successfully in a 500mA full-H driver for a magnetic field sensor... allowing smooth control of a heavy truck clutch ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
On 10/1/2012 11:46 AM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 10:42:16 -0700, Jim Thompson >> >> How about a 6-pack of '04's paralleled? >> >> ...Jim Thompson > > Massive shoot-through. > >
Please describe shoot-through.
On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 11:07:16 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 10:44:44 -0700, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: > >>On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:33:00 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund >><klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>>Hi >>> >>>I need a CMOS gate with low voltage drop at about 30mA current source and sink. The tiny logic NL27WZ14 has 600mV drop at 32mA which equates to 18ohm RDS on. >>> >>>I am searching for a device with less than 5-10 ohms and it would need to be ok to parallel to get lower resistance. Also, it must not have to much crossover shoot-through (so probably schmitt trigger type) and must have low dissipation at high operational frequency (1-10MHz) >>> >>>Any one have a part in mind? >>> >>>Thanks >>> >>>Klaus >> >>Use something like an HC14, with one section buffering the input, then >>driving several other sections, up to 5, in parallel. >> >>More extreme on speed - sub ns edges - would be an NL37WZ17US, again >>with one section buffering the input to drive the other two. >> > >I don't think that will fix shoot-thru. 'HC14 only fixes slow inputs, >so maybe the simple-minded solution is to simply slow down the input >to get firm turn-off of drive-low before drive-high (and vice-versa) >is activated... say take 10-20ns to get thru the hysteresis ?:-)
Oooops! That won't work with '14... the hysteresis isn't configured as non-overlap like my H-bridge drives are.
> >Or maybe a 1/2-H bridge driven by non-overlapping drives... as >demonstrated recently with my delay block? I use that scheme quite >successfully in a 500mA full-H driver for a magnetic field sensor... >allowing smooth control of a heavy truck clutch ;-) > > ...Jim Thompson
...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 11:52:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 11:07:16 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 10:44:44 -0700, John Larkin >><jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> >>>On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:33:00 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund >>><klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>Hi >>>> >>>>I need a CMOS gate with low voltage drop at about 30mA current source and sink. The tiny logic NL27WZ14 has 600mV drop at 32mA which equates to 18ohm RDS on. >>>> >>>>I am searching for a device with less than 5-10 ohms and it would need to be ok to parallel to get lower resistance. Also, it must not have to much crossover shoot-through (so probably schmitt trigger type) and must have low dissipation at high operational frequency (1-10MHz) >>>> >>>>Any one have a part in mind? >>>> >>>>Thanks >>>> >>>>Klaus >>> >>>Use something like an HC14, with one section buffering the input, then >>>driving several other sections, up to 5, in parallel. >>> >>>More extreme on speed - sub ns edges - would be an NL37WZ17US, again >>>with one section buffering the input to drive the other two. >>> >> >>I don't think that will fix shoot-thru. 'HC14 only fixes slow inputs, >>so maybe the simple-minded solution is to simply slow down the input >>to get firm turn-off of drive-low before drive-high (and vice-versa) >>is activated... say take 10-20ns to get thru the hysteresis ?:-) > >Oooops! That won't work with '14... the hysteresis isn't configured >as non-overlap like my H-bridge drives are. > >> >>Or maybe a 1/2-H bridge driven by non-overlapping drives... as >>demonstrated recently with my delay block? I use that scheme quite >>successfully in a 500mA full-H driver for a magnetic field sensor... >>allowing smooth control of a heavy truck clutch ;-) >> >> ...Jim Thompson > > ...Jim Thompson
Or go whole hog... http://www.ti.com/general/docs/lit/getliterature.tsp?literatureNumber=slvsba2&fileType=pdf ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
On Monday, October 1, 2012 8:07:17 PM UTC+2, Jim Thompson wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 10:44:44 -0700, John Larkin >=20 > <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > >On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:33:00 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund >=20 > ><klauskvikddd@hotmail.com> wrote: >=20 > > >=20 > >>Hi >=20 > >> >=20 > >>I need a CMOS gate with low voltage drop at about 30mA current source a=
nd sink. The tiny logic NL27WZ14 has 600mV drop at 32mA which equates to 18= ohm RDS on.
>=20 > >> >=20 > >>I am searching for a device with less than 5-10 ohms and it would need =
to be ok to parallel to get lower resistance. Also, it must not have to muc= h crossover shoot-through (so probably schmitt trigger type) and must have = low dissipation at high operational frequency (1-10MHz)
>=20 > >> >=20 > >>Any one have a part in mind? >=20 > >> >=20 > >>Thanks >=20 > >> >=20 > >>Klaus >=20 > > >=20 > >Use something like an HC14, with one section buffering the input, then >=20 > >driving several other sections, up to 5, in parallel. >=20 > > >=20 > >More extreme on speed - sub ns edges - would be an NL37WZ17US, again >=20 > >with one section buffering the input to drive the other two. >=20 > > >=20 >=20 >=20 > I don't think that will fix shoot-thru. 'HC14 only fixes slow inputs, >=20 > so maybe the simple-minded solution is to simply slow down the input >=20 > to get firm turn-off of drive-low before drive-high (and vice-versa) >=20 > is activated... say take 10-20ns to get thru the hysteresis ?:-) >=20 >=20 >=20 > Or maybe a 1/2-H bridge driven by non-overlapping drives... as >=20 > demonstrated recently with my delay block?=20
Been through some posts, but did not find it. Can you point me in the right= direction? :-)=20 Regards Klaus
On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 12:15:09 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund
<klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, October 1, 2012 8:07:17 PM UTC+2, Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 10:44:44 -0700, John Larkin >> >> <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >On Mon, 1 Oct 2012 10:33:00 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund >> >> ><klauskvikddd@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> > >> >> >>Hi >> >> >> >> >> >>I need a CMOS gate with low voltage drop at about 30mA current source and sink. The tiny logic NL27WZ14 has 600mV drop at 32mA which equates to 18ohm RDS on. >> >> >> >> >> >>I am searching for a device with less than 5-10 ohms and it would need to be ok to parallel to get lower resistance. Also, it must not have to much crossover shoot-through (so probably schmitt trigger type) and must have low dissipation at high operational frequency (1-10MHz) >> >> >> >> >> >>Any one have a part in mind? >> >> >> >> >> >>Thanks >> >> >> >> >> >>Klaus >> >> > >> >> >Use something like an HC14, with one section buffering the input, then >> >> >driving several other sections, up to 5, in parallel. >> >> > >> >> >More extreme on speed - sub ns edges - would be an NL37WZ17US, again >> >> >with one section buffering the input to drive the other two. >> >> > >> >> >> >> I don't think that will fix shoot-thru. 'HC14 only fixes slow inputs, >> >> so maybe the simple-minded solution is to simply slow down the input >> >> to get firm turn-off of drive-low before drive-high (and vice-versa) >> >> is activated... say take 10-20ns to get thru the hysteresis ?:-) >> >> >> >> Or maybe a 1/2-H bridge driven by non-overlapping drives... as >> >> demonstrated recently with my delay block? > >Been through some posts, but did not find it. Can you point me in the right direction? :-) > >Regards > >Klaus
This is the way I generate precise delays (on-chip)... http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/DelayCircuitForNarrowPulseWidths.pdf This delayed signal is then used to create non-overlapping drives for such things as full-H bridges, and commutating switches used in synchronous rectification and integrate control loops. Analysis is left as an exercise for the student ;-) Hints: (1) These are 10ps inverters (TSMC 0.18u process) (2) This is internal to a monolithic chip, so no ESD to get in your way, so left end of the cap flys above VDDD and below GNDD without clamping or consequence. This snap-shot is from a chip I designed last fall when I did an extended stay (:-) on Long Island and met Martin Riddle. Designed entirely on my laptop, the chip worked perfectly to specifications first pass thru the foundry, as do ALL of my designs... I never do "designs" without component values >:-) Klaus, I'll see if I can excise a clip showing how it inputs into the H-bridge without breaking any NDA restrictions. Is your posted E-mail address valid? ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.