On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 20:29:19 -0800, Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:>Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 00:31:19 +0200, "Andrzej Ekiert" >> <dspicant@tlen.pl> wrote: >> >>> Dnia 25-09-2012 o 00:17:39 Joerg<invalid@invalid.invalid> napisa?(a): >>> >>>> Looks like you have re-invented the inductive proximity sensor :-) >>>> >>> >>> Well, there were other inspirations as well. But the application area may >>> also matter - I don't think this was a known method for data transmission, >>> so it might have been patentable. Now it surely isn't ;-) >>> >>> ae >> >> My method as well... keep it _art_, but _privately_ documented. >> >> I'm expert witness in a case right now where a heathen patented a >> block diagram... science fiction, then is suing now that technology >> has caught up with fiction :-( >> >> ...Jim Thompson > To the best of my knowledge, one cannot patent a block diagram - not >even as a design patent.But they did. Your patent office at its finest.> And design patents are essentially worthless since one minor aspect >can be changed to generate a new design patent. > Crudely put, the shape of a paper clip cannot be patented in a way to >protect its use; change the wiggle or bend here to make a different >design and thus create competition that cannot be negated by "interference".We go to court Nov 5 ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Inductive digital isolator
Started by ●September 24, 2012
Reply by ●September 25, 20122012-09-25
Reply by ●September 25, 20122012-09-25
miso <miso@sushi.com> writes:> On 9/24/2012 9:29 PM, Robert Baer wrote: >> Jim Thompson wrote: >>> On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 00:31:19 +0200, "Andrzej Ekiert" >>> <dspicant@tlen.pl> wrote: >>> >>>> Dnia 25-09-2012 o 00:17:39 Joerg<invalid@invalid.invalid> napisa?(a): >>>> >>>>> Looks like you have re-invented the inductive proximity sensor :-) >>>>> >>>> >>>> Well, there were other inspirations as well. But the application area >>>> may >>>> also matter - I don't think this was a known method for data >>>> transmission, >>>> so it might have been patentable. Now it surely isn't ;-) >>>> >>>> ae >>> >>> My method as well... keep it _art_, but _privately_ documented. >>> >>> I'm expert witness in a case right now where a heathen patented a >>> block diagram... science fiction, then is suing now that technology >>> has caught up with fiction :-( >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >> To the best of my knowledge, one cannot patent a block diagram - not >> even as a design patent. >> And design patents are essentially worthless since one minor aspect >> can be changed to generate a new design patent. >> Crudely put, the shape of a paper clip cannot be patented in a way to >> protect its use; change the wiggle or bend here to make a different >> design and thus create competition that cannot be negated by >> "interference". >> > > The only thing that matters in the patent is the "claims" section. > > Incidentally, if you don't want someone to patent an idea but rather > have it open source, just patent it yourself and don't enforce the > patent. There is no better prior art than a patent with that prior > art.It might well be the best way to stop someone else patenting it. But it would not be a good way to let other people use it who might want to. The mere fact that it is patented would put off most people I think. What about explicitly releasing it into the public domain? Although this seems to be discouraged for some reason. A better way might be to use one of the "open hardware" sites that are springing up. -- John Devereux
Reply by ●September 25, 20122012-09-25
Dnia 25-09-2012 o 03:39:18 Sjouke Burry <s@b> napisa=C5=82(a):> Use an ethernet isolation transformer, they come in very small > footprints and are made for the purpose > (datatransmission with isolated in/out).The whole point of this method is not to use any components one needs to= = buy. You only pay for circa 3cm2 of PCB space, so building an isolated = data link between two microcontrollers is almost free. Regards, Andrzej
Reply by ●September 25, 20122012-09-25
On 25 Sep 2012 01:39:18 GMT, Sjouke Burry <s@b> wrote:>"Andrzej Ekiert" <dspicant@tlen.pl> wrote in >news:op.wk5ufqawf6rg9m@jabba.lan: > >> Hi all, >> The reason for this post is that I want to safeguard my idea from any >> patenting attempts. Releasing the details to the public domain should >> do the trick, so here they are: >> >> Imagine a transformer built from two coils routed on a PCB on two >> different layers (top and bottom for example). The thickness of the >> PCB provides the isolation required. Transmission is performed by >> shorting one coil, forming a closed loop - one end is grounded, the >> other connected to a microcontroller pin. The micro grounds the pin >> and that's one state. When the micro puts the pin in high impedance, >> the other state is transmitted. A micro on the other side measures >> the inductance of the other (coupled) coil. By observing a variation >> in inductance it can tell if the coil on the other side is shorted or >> not. >> >> Should anyone be interested, I have it implemented. We do this on >> Microchip's microcontrollers and measure the inductance with the CTMU >> hardware peripheral. Works at 80kbps full-duplex on a PIC24F. I have >> written an application note and posted it on my company website. We >> call the thing "Freesolator", since it requires almost no components >> (one resistor, once you have CTMU on board). We have demo boards and >> can make the source code available. See >> http://protronik.pl/freesolator-en.html >> >> Hope you don't find this post too spammy. I couldn't think of a better >> method of undeniable disclosure. >> >> Cheers, >> Andrzej Ekiert >> >Use an ethernet isolation transformer, they come in very small >footprints and are made for the purpose >(datatransmission with isolated in/out).Or just use the built in magnetometer on your iPad. (lots of Android devices too)
Reply by ●September 25, 20122012-09-25
Dnia 25-09-2012 o 06:15:52 miso <miso@sushi.com> napisa=C5=82(a):> Incidentally, if you don't want someone to patent an idea but rather => have it open source, just patent it yourself and don't enforce the => patent. There is no better prior art than a patent with that prior art=. I did talk to a patent lawyer to estimate costs involved in having = something patented internationally. A costly hobby I would say. And if i= t = comes to court, then a small company cannot afford to defend. My opinion on patents is that the whole purpose of this system has been = = circumvented in the recent decades. Patents now do not protect individua= l = inventors. They are only useful to corporations that already have money = = and lawyers. Also, the patent databases are polluted with useless or = obvious "inventions". Worse - anything you do, you may fall into a paten= t = trap. I would like to see this whole system thrown to trash. Regards, Andrzej
Reply by ●September 25, 20122012-09-25
On a sunny day (Tue, 25 Sep 2012 08:30:17 +0200) it happened "Andrzej Ekiert" <dspicant@tlen.pl> wrote in <op.wk6horpnf6rg9m@jabba.lan>:>Dnia 25-09-2012 o 03:39:18 Sjouke Burry <s@b> napisa=C5=82(a): > >> Use an ethernet isolation transformer, they come in very small >> footprints and are made for the purpose >> (datatransmission with isolated in/out). > >The whole point of this method is not to use any components one needs to= > = > >buy. You only pay for circa 3cm2 of PCB space, so building an isolated = > >data link between two microcontrollers is almost free. > >Regards, >AndrzejNot new I think, you could do it capacitively too, 2 close PCB layers, 1 pull down resistor NO CURRENT PIC out--- | |------ PIC in | R | ///
Reply by ●September 25, 20122012-09-25
On 25.9.12 1:08 , Andrzej Ekiert wrote:> Hi all, > The reason for this post is that I want to safeguard my idea from any > patenting attempts. Releasing the details to the public domain should do > the trick, so here they are: > > Imagine a transformer built from two coils routed on a PCB on two > different layers (top and bottom for example). The thickness of the PCB > provides the isolation required. Transmission is performed by shorting > one coil, forming a closed loop - one end is grounded, the other > connected to a microcontroller pin. The micro grounds the pin and that's > one state. When the micro puts the pin in high impedance, the other > state is transmitted. A micro on the other side measures the inductance > of the other (coupled) coil. By observing a variation in inductance it > can tell if the coil on the other side is shorted or not. > > Should anyone be interested, I have it implemented. We do this on > Microchip's microcontrollers and measure the inductance with the CTMU > hardware peripheral. Works at 80kbps full-duplex on a PIC24F. I have > written an application note and posted it on my company website. We call > the thing "Freesolator", since it requires almost no components (one > resistor, once you have CTMU on board). We have demo boards and can make > the source code available. See http://protronik.pl/freesolator-en.html > > Hope you don't find this post too spammy. I couldn't think of a better > method of undeniable disclosure. > > Cheers, > Andrzej EkiertBefore you burn all your assets, have a look at Analog Devices ADUM -series devices. -- Tauno Voipio
Reply by ●September 25, 20122012-09-25
On Mon, 24 Sep 2012 20:29:19 -0800, Robert Baer <robertbaer@localnet.com> wrote:>Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 00:31:19 +0200, "Andrzej Ekiert" >> <dspicant@tlen.pl> wrote: >> >>> Dnia 25-09-2012 o 00:17:39 Joerg<invalid@invalid.invalid> napisa?(a): >>> >>>> Looks like you have re-invented the inductive proximity sensor :-) >>>> >>> >>> Well, there were other inspirations as well. But the application area may >>> also matter - I don't think this was a known method for data transmission, >>> so it might have been patentable. Now it surely isn't ;-) >>> >>> ae >> >> My method as well... keep it _art_, but _privately_ documented. >> >> I'm expert witness in a case right now where a heathen patented a >> block diagram... science fiction, then is suing now that technology >> has caught up with fiction :-( >> >> ...Jim Thompson > To the best of my knowledge, one cannot patent a block diagram - not >even as a design patent.You can't patent a block diagram, per se, and it would be silly to do so. You certainly can use a block diagram in the teachings. The claims section is text, so no, a block diagram won't do there, either. Why would you want to?> And design patents are essentially worthless since one minor aspect >can be changed to generate a new design patent.Depends on what it is. Design patents certainly are worthwhile in some circumstances, like the shape of the iPhone.> Crudely put, the shape of a paper clip cannot be patented in a way to >protect its use; change the wiggle or bend here to make a different >design and thus create competition that cannot be negated by "interference".Of course, it would be stupid to file a design patent when the function needs protection.
Reply by ●September 25, 20122012-09-25
On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 06:53:43 +0100, John Devereux <john@devereux.me.uk> wrote:>miso <miso@sushi.com> writes: > >> On 9/24/2012 9:29 PM, Robert Baer wrote: >>> Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 00:31:19 +0200, "Andrzej Ekiert" >>>> <dspicant@tlen.pl> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dnia 25-09-2012 o 00:17:39 Joerg<invalid@invalid.invalid> napisa?(a): >>>>> >>>>>> Looks like you have re-invented the inductive proximity sensor :-) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Well, there were other inspirations as well. But the application area >>>>> may >>>>> also matter - I don't think this was a known method for data >>>>> transmission, >>>>> so it might have been patentable. Now it surely isn't ;-) >>>>> >>>>> ae >>>> >>>> My method as well... keep it _art_, but _privately_ documented. >>>> >>>> I'm expert witness in a case right now where a heathen patented a >>>> block diagram... science fiction, then is suing now that technology >>>> has caught up with fiction :-( >>>> >>>> ...Jim Thompson >>> To the best of my knowledge, one cannot patent a block diagram - not >>> even as a design patent. >>> And design patents are essentially worthless since one minor aspect >>> can be changed to generate a new design patent. >>> Crudely put, the shape of a paper clip cannot be patented in a way to >>> protect its use; change the wiggle or bend here to make a different >>> design and thus create competition that cannot be negated by >>> "interference". >>> >> >> The only thing that matters in the patent is the "claims" section. >> >> Incidentally, if you don't want someone to patent an idea but rather >> have it open source, just patent it yourself and don't enforce the >> patent. There is no better prior art than a patent with that prior >> art. > >It might well be the best way to stop someone else patenting it.There are places to publish such things that are far cheaper than a patent.>But it would not be a good way to let other people use it who might want >to. The mere fact that it is patented would put off most people I >think. What about explicitly releasing it into the public domain?See above.>Although this seems to be discouraged for some reason. A better way >might be to use one of the "open hardware" sites that are springing up.
Reply by ●September 25, 20122012-09-25
On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:37:52 +0300, Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> wrote:>On 25.9.12 1:08 , Andrzej Ekiert wrote: >> Hi all, >> The reason for this post is that I want to safeguard my idea from any >> patenting attempts. Releasing the details to the public domain should do >> the trick, so here they are: >> >> Imagine a transformer built from two coils routed on a PCB on two >> different layers (top and bottom for example). The thickness of the PCB >> provides the isolation required. Transmission is performed by shorting >> one coil, forming a closed loop - one end is grounded, the other >> connected to a microcontroller pin. The micro grounds the pin and that's >> one state. When the micro puts the pin in high impedance, the other >> state is transmitted. A micro on the other side measures the inductance >> of the other (coupled) coil. By observing a variation in inductance it >> can tell if the coil on the other side is shorted or not. >> >> Should anyone be interested, I have it implemented. We do this on >> Microchip's microcontrollers and measure the inductance with the CTMU >> hardware peripheral. Works at 80kbps full-duplex on a PIC24F. I have >> written an application note and posted it on my company website. We call >> the thing "Freesolator", since it requires almost no components (one >> resistor, once you have CTMU on board). We have demo boards and can make >> the source code available. See http://protronik.pl/freesolator-en.html >> >> Hope you don't find this post too spammy. I couldn't think of a better >> method of undeniable disclosure. >> >> Cheers, >> Andrzej Ekiert > > >Before you burn all your assets, have a look at Analog Devices >ADUM -series devices.They're certainly nice but they cost like they have part numbers starting with "LTC".
