Oscilloscope donation for a beginner - request

"Ian Field"  wrote in message news:nDlMr.736277$ys4.388358@fx24.am4...

[snip]

> BTW: any idea how to fix quoted text indentation in Win7/Live Mail ?

I just do it manually. Which also encourages me to snip generously. I =
think=20
there may be an external application that you can copy/paste to and from =

that will do it. You could probably use another news reader, like Xnews, =
for=20
that purpose. Or just use it for usenet news.

Paul=20

"Mike" <spam@me.not> wrote in message 
news:XnsA090BA2E8309Bidtokenpost@69.16.185.250...
> Fenclu <jakubf2007@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> I'm probably not the first one to ask for a free oscilloscope. I'm
>> from Poland and here oscilloscopes are rare and expensive. I'm keen to
>> learn electronics and I just can't continue without an oscilloscope in
>> my lab. I obviously can't afford one.
>>
>> So, to all engineers out there : if someone has an oscilloscope
>> leftover and would like to donate it I would gladly accept it. I can
>> pay for the shipping, which is still going to be very expensive but
>> it's still much cheaper than an oscilloscope. I think I can only
>> accept an oscilloscope from someone from Europe, escpecially from
>> Poland or from a nearby coutry, because it would cost over 150USD to
>> ship it from USA to Poland. I guess I could accept one out of Europe
>> if the postage is under 50 bucks but I doubt it would be that cheap.
>>
>> It would be best if the scope was over 20MHz bandwidth.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Jakub (fenclu)
>
<snip>
The link below seems to be truncated, and going into the top level page 
doesn't seem to have a navigation trail to it. Does it need subscription?

> 1-GHz Sampling Oscilloscope Front End Is Easily Modified
> "http://electronicdesign.com/article/test-and-measurement/1-ghz-sampling-
> oscilloscope-front-end-is-easily-mo"
>

"Fenclu"  wrote in message=20
news:f323eea5-a04a-46ea-9643-7fbf6c8b5536@googlegroups.com...

>I'm probably not the first one to ask for a free oscilloscope.
> I'm from Poland and here oscilloscopes are rare and expensive.
> I'm keen to learn electronics and I just can't continue without
> an oscilloscope in my lab. I obviously can't afford one.

> So, to all engineers out there : if someone has an oscilloscope
> leftover and would like to donate it I would gladly accept it.
> I can pay for the shipping, which is still going to be very
> expensive but it's still much cheaper than an oscilloscope.
> I think I can only accept an oscilloscope from someone from
> Europe, escpecially from Poland or from a nearby coutry,
> because it would cost over 150USD to ship it from USA to
> Poland. I guess I could accept one out of Europe if the
> postage is under 50 bucks but I doubt it would be that cheap.

> It would be best if the scope was over 20MHz bandwidth.

There are lots of USB scopes for cheap on eBay, but mostly low =
frequency.=20
And they are essentially crap if you are measuring signals where noise =
is=20
present, as you can see from this post in an EV forum:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/open-revolt-igbt-driv=
er-blew-igbts-74629p10.html

You might see if there are any Amateur Radio Hamfests and swap meets =
near=20
you. An excellent source of old used equipment.

I have a lot of boards which I'm removing from equipment for upgrades to =
new=20
USB Windows hardware and software. These boards work only on MSDOS and a =

real parallel port, and the sample rate is only about 2000/sec, but it =
uses=20
a 12 bit A/D and it can measure signals from a 100A/100mV shunt as low =
as 5=20
mV FS to 1V FS in 8 overlapping ranges 50/100/250...10000 A. The input =
is=20
full differential with 2k input resistance, so you can add 200k or 2meg =
and=20
get 100x or 1000x for voltage readings.

You just have to connect the board to a 16VCT transformer for power. I =
can=20
send one for whatever the cost of postage, and you can have the software =
and=20
source code for Turbo-C. If you can program a microcontroller you could =
make=20
an interface to emulate the parallel port and maybe boost the sampling =
rate.=20
Actually the MSDOS software has a utility menu where you can set the=20
sampling rate higher, but I don't know how high it can go. Maybe 5000 to =

10000 samples/sec. It uses the system timer which is 18.206/second but=20
that's with a divisor of 65536 from 1.19 MHz.

Good luck,

Paul=20

Mike wrote:
> 
> Fenclu <jakubf2007@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Hi
> >
> > I'm probably not the first one to ask for a free oscilloscope. I'm
> > from Poland and here oscilloscopes are rare and expensive. I'm keen to
> > learn electronics and I just can't continue without an oscilloscope in
> > my lab. I obviously can't afford one.
> >
> > So, to all engineers out there : if someone has an oscilloscope
> > leftover and would like to donate it I would gladly accept it. I can
> > pay for the shipping, which is still going to be very expensive but
> > it's still much cheaper than an oscilloscope. I think I can only
> > accept an oscilloscope from someone from Europe, escpecially from
> > Poland or from a nearby coutry, because it would cost over 150USD to
> > ship it from USA to Poland. I guess I could accept one out of Europe
> > if the postage is under 50 bucks but I doubt it would be that cheap.
> >
> > It would be best if the scope was over 20MHz bandwidth.
> >
> > Best regards
> > Jakub (fenclu)
> 
> You might be interested in building your own. You will probably be
> dealing with repetitive signals, and you might be interested in an
> inexpensive 1GHz sampling scope. There is a companion article that allows
> you to send the output to a plotter. It could be modified to work with a
> DC - audio converter so you can use the sound card on your computer. It
> will take a bit of software and hardware hacking, but when you are done,
> you will have an instrument that will outperform anything you could
> purchase, plus the knowledge and skills that will serve you well in any
> future endeavour.
> 
> The articles are old and the images are a bit to small to read. But you
> can get a simple magnifier program to blow them up so your can read them.
> 
> The first article is the sampler. It is intended to work with a 10MHz
> scope, which you don't have yet.
> 
> 1-GHz Sampling Oscilloscope Front End Is Easily Modified


   Don't use quote marks for URLs:


> "http://electronicdesign.com/article/test-and-measurement/1-ghz-sampling-
> oscilloscope-front-end-is-easily-mo"


   Post them like this so they don't break across multiple lines:


<http://electronicdesign.com/article/test-and-measurement/1-ghz-sampling-oscilloscope-front-end-is-easily-mo>



> The second article works with the scope to convert the signals to run a
> plotter. You could modify the outputs to work with the sound card and
> display the signals on your computer instead. This has the advantage that
> you can store the signals for future reference, and add any analysis that
> you wish, such as FFT, digital filtering, risetime calculations, etc.
> 
> Here is the second part:
> 
> Precise Trigger Aids In Recording Scope Signals On Plotter

> "http://electronicdesign.com/article/test-and-measurement/precise-
> trigger-aids-in-recording-scope-signals-on"


<http://electronicdesign.com/article/test-and-measurement/precise-trigger-aids-in-recording-scope-signals-on> 


> Wish you the best of luck. I'm sure if you run into problems, there will
> be many willing hands here to help.
> 
> Once you have it running, you could start a small neighbourhood club to
> show others how to do the same.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mike

On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 13:29:59 -0700 (PDT), Fenclu
<jakubf2007@gmail.com> wrote:

>As I said, I am able to pay for the shipping if it's under 50USD.

It will cost much more than $20.  For example:
<http://www.fedex.com/pl_english/shippingguide/importguidelines/>
Poland wants a 22% VAT from the recipient for all durables shipped
into Poland.  I don't know how they value test equipment, but for
computahs, they price them using eBay prices.  A $200 value minimal
scope will cost $44 in VAT.

In the distant past, I would ship PC's to relatives in Poland.  In
about 1992, a $2000 PC would be worth about $9000 in Poland.  The
problem was not customers or taxes.  It was theft.  Machines simply
would not arrive and were presumed "lost" in shipment.  In order to
obtain reliable delivery, I had to disassemble the machine, and ship
the parts and pieces separately.  After the typical 3 month delay, we
would take inventory to determine what needed to be resent. Hopefully,
things have improved in the last 20 years.

Shipment to Poland calculator:
<http://polonez.simplyphoto.com/CalcParcPO.html>
Using a fairly light Tek 2205 scope as an example, 20x24x8 package, 10
lbs, sea shipment, the shipping charge would be $22 from their depot
in Massachusetts.  From my office in California to Mass adds about
$20.  Polish VAT, paid by the recipient, adds $44.  Total = $86 
If you can figure out how to avoid the VAT, it might barely work.


-- 
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

On Jul 14, 7:24=A0pm, "P E Schoen" <p...@peschoen.com> wrote:
> "Ian Field" =A0wrote in messagenews:nDlMr.736277$ys4.388358@fx24.am4...
>
> [snip]
>
> > BTW: any idea how to fix quoted text indentation in Win7/Live Mail ?
>
> I just do it manually. Which also encourages me to snip generously. I thi=
nk
> there may be an external application that you can copy/paste to and from
> that will do it. You could probably use another news reader, like Xnews, =
for
> that purpose. Or just use it for usenet news.
>


I used to use Mozilla SeaMonkey -- email/news/browser all in one.
Don't know what shape it's in nowadays.

spamtrap1888 wrote:
> On Jul 14, 7:24 pm, "P E Schoen" <p...@peschoen.com> wrote:
>> "Ian Field"  wrote in messagenews:nDlMr.736277$ys4.388358@fx24.am4...
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> BTW: any idea how to fix quoted text indentation in Win7/Live Mail ?
>>
>> I just do it manually. Which also encourages me to snip generously. I think
>> there may be an external application that you can copy/paste to and from
>> that will do it. You could probably use another news reader, like Xnews, for
>> that purpose. Or just use it for usenet news.
>>
>
>
> I used to use Mozilla SeaMonkey -- email/news/browser all in one.
> Don't know what shape it's in nowadays.
>


Still around.

--
Les Cargill

On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 11:48:51 -0700 (PDT), Fenclu
<jakubf2007@gmail.com> wrote:

>Hi
>
>I'm probably not the first one to ask for a free oscilloscope. I'm from Poland and here oscilloscopes are rare and expensive. I'm keen to learn electronics and I just can't continue without an oscilloscope in my lab. I obviously can't afford one.
>
>So, to all engineers out there : if someone has an oscilloscope leftover and would like to donate it I would gladly accept it. I can pay for the shipping, which is still going to be very expensive but it's still much cheaper than an oscilloscope. I think I can only accept an oscilloscope from someone from Europe, escpecially from Poland or from a nearby coutry, because it would cost over 150USD to ship it from USA to Poland. I guess I could accept one out of Europe if the postage is under 50 bucks but I doubt it would be that cheap.
>
>It would be best if the scope was over 20MHz bandwidth.
>
>Best regards
>Jakub (fenclu)

I sympathize. Second hand stuff has always been more pricey in Europe.
One side effect of low-waste living habits.

For some reason, equipment marked as 'settler's effects' or some other
duty-free category, tend to get booted down-stairs during shipment, as
well. That's just plain spite. 

Do you or anyone else in your family know someone who travels abroad
regularly on business, or just as part of their regular work?

Another alternative is to check with local radio amateurs. These guys
tend to be getting older ..... looking for bright sparks to hand down
to without fiscal motives.

Check out the Yahoo TekScopes group. It has European members with some
savvy.  

RL

When I wrote "bucks" I meant USD. Yes, we have PLN here in Poland, I just wanted to make it easier for others

On 15/07/2012 02:46, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 12:31:28 -0700 (PDT), the renowned Fenclu
> <jakubf2007@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There are no scopes from Poland available on Ebay. You can buy a scope in Poland but, mainly due to the currency, they're expensive. I have been looking even for soviet scopes but the only two I could find were unteseted and still expensive.
>>
>> I guess it would be more appealing if the scope
>> was going to an educational institution but I'm just a hoobyst and I'm not going to lie.
>
> Shipping is going to kill you on an older 'scope. They're hardly worth
> shipping across town.

Scrounging one from a local university or junk shop is your best bet.
>
> I traded in a little one a couple years ago when Tek was offering 10
> or 15% off if you supplied a working trade-in.
>
> Isn't there some nearby university that's upgrading?
>
> People who have relatives in Poland complain that everything is
> relatively expensive now with the Euro.. and as JL points out decent
> Rigols are less than 250 Euros, and being modern they're very light
> and cheap to ship.

The cheapest option by far for a beginner these days is a software based 
scope for a PC that uses the soundcard as a dual channel ADC.

Daquarta isn't perfect in that respect as it does cost something to use 
and lacks proper X-Y options but does have realtime spectrum analysis. 
ISTR 30 day free trial. It is fine for audio signals.

The other one whose name escapes me for the moment is freeware and can 
do x-y as well as x-t plots. Performance is obviously limited to audio 
band only and not DC coupled but it is a lot better than nothing.

And the price of either is hard to bear.

-- 
Regards,
Martin Brown