Forums

T568A/B timewaster

Started by Don Y March 2, 2012
On 2012-03-03, Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:

> It's just annoying to have to go through this "exercise" each time. > (I should just write "B" on the front of the panel!)
I was about to suggest that, stick a printed label on the front. so it's there when you want it. or write it on the punch-down tool, so it's to hand when you forget it. -- &#9858;&#9859; 100% natural
On 2012-03-03, Don Y <this@isnotme.com> wrote:
> Hi Nico,
>> >> Its always B. A is for the other side of an ethernet cross cable (note >> only orange and green are swapped). > > It seems like it is only "always B" for (computer) network > applications. The telco world apparently also uses the same > 8P8C but with the "A" color scheme.
It's pretty much always "A" this side of the pacific. -- &#9858;&#9859; 100% natural
Don Y wrote:
> > Hi Michael, > > On 3/2/2012 3:03 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: > > >> I've deployed (wired) ethernet (CAT5, not 6) throughout the > >> house. I chose to follow the "B" wiring color conventions > >> in 8P8C's. > >> > >> But, from time to time, I end up adding or replacing an > >> "RJ45" and always have to go through the effort of remembering > >> which wiring scheme I originally chose. This is just plain > >> annoying (useless timewaster!). > >> > >> What is "common practice" in this case? Should I have opted > >> for "A" and just committed that fact to memory (similarly, > >> commit my "B" choice to memory)? Or, tacked a small sign > >> above the patch panel reminding me of that choice? > >> > >> Of course, accommodating either choice is just a matter of > >> swapping pairs. But, deciding if and when that is necessary > >> is the PITA (i.e., most connector bodies have color codes > >> marked on them -- but, you then have to remember whether > >> *this* code coincides with the scheme you have already > >> implemented on the other end of the cable...) > >> > >> "Standards are great! Everyone should have one!!" :-/ > > > > The Leviton jacks I use have both sets of color codes on labels. No > > Yes, some of the jacks that I have are similar in that regard. > > > need to remember the pattern, just which system you use. If yours are > > *That* is exactly the issue! --------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This isn't > the sort of thing I do "often". I can tell you which conductor is > tip/ring in a length of *quad* (since I've done a lot of that sort > of wiring over the decades) but have only once had to wire a house > with CAT5! :-/ > > > unmarked, take a scrap of Cat5 cable and terminate it, then leave it in > > your networking crash kit. :) > > <frown> What would I have in such a "crash kit"? Currently, I > keep spare cable, connectors (male/female), wall plates, appliances, > etc. in specific places in the garage. I've not considered that > these should be combined into a single location/kit...
I use a small toolbox that has all the connectors, plates, surface mount boxes and the hand tools to do the work. I also have an assortment of cables and hardware in the kit. The tools are: A 6in1 screwdriver, a crimper for plugs, a pair of dykes, needle nose pliers, and wire strippers. Even though I never intended to, I end up helping freinds install or repair existing network cables. All I have to do is put that toolbox in the truck and leave. In fact, I will soon be removing an air conditioned server rack and moving the Cisco 1924 closer to the corporate grapics department & sales offices. I have convinced them to go to all networked printers and to put four ports per office to allow for two printers a computer and later, VOIP phones. Only two ports currently go to production so I removed the Cisco 1924 in production. The previous owner har fiber run, but never terminated it. The hardware is there, but why bother just to run the UPS label printer and netwrked invoice printer? Their telephone guy was pushing to finish the fiber install, claiming they needed the bandwitch. He also thinks istalling a business phone system is a black art.:( -- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.
On Friday, March 2, 2012 10:26:25 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote:
> Hi Martin, > > On 3/2/2012 6:19 PM, Martin Riddle wrote: > > > Rule: Use B > > OK. A friend (from whom many of the connectors came) replied > that the "A" wiring is common in telco applications.
Irrelevant. If you are wiring both ends of a cable, and you do 'em both in B (like most commercial cables are done), and you choose to do the same for your in-wall wiring, it works fine. If you want your in-wall wiring to be A on both ends, and wire it thus, it still works. The only problem, is if you wire one end A and the other end B. So, don't do that, unless you want to recapitulate all the grief of 'wierd cables' for crossover that plagued 10baseT wiring a decade ago.
On 3/3/2012 12:41 PM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Friday, March 2, 2012 10:26:25 PM UTC-8, Don Y wrote: >> Hi Martin, >> >> On 3/2/2012 6:19 PM, Martin Riddle wrote: >> >>> Rule: Use B >> >> OK. A friend (from whom many of the connectors came) replied >> that the "A" wiring is common in telco applications. > > Irrelevant. If you are wiring both ends of a cable, and > you do 'em both in B (like most commercial cables are done), > and you choose to do the same for your in-wall wiring, it
------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That's why you pull the patch panel off and see how *it* is wired. So that you know WHICH of the color codes on the dual-purposed/dual LEGENDED jacks you want to follow for the connector you are about to install! [That was the point of the post]
> works fine. If you want your in-wall wiring to be A on both ends, and > wire it thus, it still works. The only problem, is if you > wire one end A and the other end B. So, don't do that, > unless you want to recapitulate all the grief of 'wierd cables' > for crossover that plagued 10baseT wiring a decade ago.
Hi Jasen,

On 3/3/2012 4:03 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
> On 2012-03-03, Don Y<this@isnotme.com> wrote: > >> It's just annoying to have to go through this "exercise" each time. >> (I should just write "B" on the front of the panel!) > > I was about to suggest that, stick a printed label on the front. > so it's there when you want it. or write it on the punch-down > tool, so it's to hand when you forget it.
When I installed the panel and connected the first set of drops, it was "second nature" to me... puchdown 48 sets of 4 pairs on the panel and you can recite the color code in your sleep! Then, move to the drops you are ready to install and repeat the process -- even if the connectors differ widely... you've got this ingrained in your head. But, come back to it to wire in one of the remaining drops some time later and you suddenly find yourself remembering that there *were* two choices... "Which did I make?" I prepare formal notes for most projects so I'll just treat this the same way. It will also help me remember where in the walls the wires were run EXACTLY so I don't end up cutting a hole in the wrong "bay" seeking a known drop at a later date.
Hi Michael,

On 3/3/2012 6:34 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

>>> unmarked, take a scrap of Cat5 cable and terminate it, then leave it in >>> your networking crash kit. :) >> >> <frown> What would I have in such a "crash kit"? Currently, I >> keep spare cable, connectors (male/female), wall plates, appliances, >> etc. in specific places in the garage. I've not considered that >> these should be combined into a single location/kit... > > I use a small toolbox that has all the connectors, plates, surface > mount boxes and the hand tools to do the work. I also have an assortment > of cables and hardware in the kit. The tools are: A 6in1 screwdriver, a > crimper for plugs, a pair of dykes, needle nose pliers, and wire > strippers.
Oh. Currently, those are distributed in many different locations. E.g., the crimpers (not just for the various modular connectors, but, also, for coax, etc.) are in an oversized "toolkit" (one of those suitcase affairs you use for field service work); the wall plates and snap-in "modules" are in a set of large boxes (I have A LOT of them); the connector shells are stored in oversized pill bottles (think: vitamin bottles) sorted by size and wire type; cable is in pull boxes; etc. It works well for me *here* -- because I can just walk around to wherever the items I need happen to be "stored". It would be better to have them grouped together -- but, then you end up with duplication (do I have another kit for telephony? And another for CATV? Another for wirewrap tools?) My approach would be miserable if I ever had to *go* somewhere to provide this service (you *know* I would forget SOMETHING)
> Even though I never intended to, I end up helping freinds install or > repair existing network cables. All I have to do is put that toolbox in > the truck and leave. In fact, I will soon be removing an air > conditioned server rack and moving the Cisco 1924 closer to the > corporate grapics department& sales offices. I have convinced them to > go to all networked printers and to put four ports per office to allow > for two printers a computer and later, VOIP phones.
I can vouch for the wisdom of networked printers. I put all of mine on the network (6 of them) -- with the exception of one little "photo printer" that I imagine would present problems with drivers, etc. (I run several different OS's and it is marketed only to the Windows crowd) I had started an "open" hardware/software projects some time ago with some colleagues to develop an open source VoIP *appliance*. One of the features sought, there, was to build a small *switch* (technically functioning as a router) in the "phone" so that a single drop could connect to the phone *and* serve all of the network nodes nearby (without adding an extra switching level to the fabric above). But, in a small project (team), if one guy doesn't hold up his end of the deal, things quickly unravel :< Disappointing. (Moral: find reliable people or plan on doing it ALL, yourself!) (It was a cool/cheap implementation, too! I was using a PDA as the user interface -- a suggestion I had received many years earlier -- and just cramming the "displayless" portion of the device into the PDA's charging base. Power coming in over the network connection so no wall wart, etc.)
> Only two ports currently go to production so I removed the Cisco 1924 > in production. The previous owner har fiber run, but never terminated > it. The hardware is there, but why bother just to run the UPS label > printer and netwrked invoice printer? Their telephone guy was pushing > to finish the fiber install, claiming they needed the bandwitch. He also > thinks istalling a business phone system is a black art.:(
The only time I see A here was for a FIPS standard installation.

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On 3/3/2012 4:10 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:

> It's pretty much always "A" this side of the pacific.
Dunno. I'm having a hard enough time sorting out *this* side! :-)
Don Y wrote:
> > Hi Michael, > > On 3/3/2012 6:34 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote: > > >>> unmarked, take a scrap of Cat5 cable and terminate it, then leave it in > >>> your networking crash kit. :) > >> > >> <frown> What would I have in such a "crash kit"? Currently, I > >> keep spare cable, connectors (male/female), wall plates, appliances, > >> etc. in specific places in the garage. I've not considered that > >> these should be combined into a single location/kit... > > > > I use a small toolbox that has all the connectors, plates, surface > > mount boxes and the hand tools to do the work. I also have an assortment > > of cables and hardware in the kit. The tools are: A 6in1 screwdriver, a > > crimper for plugs, a pair of dykes, needle nose pliers, and wire > > strippers. > > Oh. Currently, those are distributed in many different locations. > E.g., the crimpers (not just for the various modular connectors, > but, also, for coax, etc.) are in an oversized "toolkit" (one > of those suitcase affairs you use for field service work); the > wall plates and snap-in "modules" are in a set of large boxes > (I have A LOT of them); the connector shells are stored in > oversized pill bottles (think: vitamin bottles) sorted by > size and wire type; cable is in pull boxes; etc.
Sigh. I have a couple hundred empty pill bottles for bulk hardware. Between my health issues and those of my parents I get about 15 more a month.
> It works well for me *here* -- because I can just walk around > to wherever the items I need happen to be "stored". It would > be better to have them grouped together -- but, then you end > up with duplication (do I have another kit for telephony? > And another for CATV? Another for wirewrap tools?)
Yes, since the phone stuff fills another small toolbox. The hand tools don't cost much, and I have plenty of spares. A pair of dykes, needlenose and screwdriver cost me $2.25 new. CATV is all stored together in a steel office cabinet, with a small kit in one of those zippered six pack pop carriers. Wire wrap? I haven't done that in over 25 years, but I have several thousand feet of WW wire and a hand tool in a drawer under my main workbench. It gets rare use to repair circuit boards. You didn't mention electrical, but most of that is on a service cart and the wire is on reel carriers.
> My approach would be miserable if I ever had to *go* somewhere > to provide this service (you *know* I would forget SOMETHING)
Thats why I kit them for different jobs.
> > Even though I never intended to, I end up helping freinds install or > > repair existing network cables. All I have to do is put that toolbox in > > the truck and leave. In fact, I will soon be removing an air > > conditioned server rack and moving the Cisco 1924 closer to the > > corporate grapics department& sales offices. I have convinced them to > > go to all networked printers and to put four ports per office to allow > > for two printers a computer and later, VOIP phones. > > I can vouch for the wisdom of networked printers. I put all of > mine on the network (6 of them) -- with the exception of one little > "photo printer" that I imagine would present problems with > drivers, etc. (I run several different OS's and it is marketed > only to the Windows crowd)
Right now all but one computer is XP/7. One of the owners want to trash all of them and use Macs. I told him that would be the end of free tech support.
> I had started an "open" hardware/software projects some time > ago with some colleagues to develop an open source VoIP > *appliance*. One of the features sought, there, was to build > a small *switch* (technically functioning as a router) in > the "phone" so that a single drop could connect to the phone > *and* serve all of the network nodes nearby (without adding > an extra switching level to the fabric above). > > But, in a small project (team), if one guy doesn't hold up > his end of the deal, things quickly unravel :< Disappointing. > (Moral: find reliable people or plan on doing it ALL, yourself!) > > (It was a cool/cheap implementation, too! I was using > a PDA as the user interface -- a suggestion I had received > many years earlier -- and just cramming the "displayless" > portion of the device into the PDA's charging base. Power > coming in over the network connection so no wall wart, etc.) > > > Only two ports currently go to production so I removed the Cisco 1924 > > in production. The previous owner har fiber run, but never terminated > > it. The hardware is there, but why bother just to run the UPS label > > printer and netwrked invoice printer? Their telephone guy was pushing > > to finish the fiber install, claiming they needed the bandwitch. He also > > thinks istalling a business phone system is a black art.:(
-- You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.