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Boost Converter Tutorial?

Started by Jim Thompson February 11, 2012
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:12:02 -0000, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> >"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in >message news:et5mj71t40jmps43fhhb7q67jrj320nng8@4ax.com... >> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:24:27 -0600, John Fields >> <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >> >>>On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:17:54 -0000, "Ian Field" >>><gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message >>>>news:hsqkj7l47sh69jibrs1ia4f6b933lst1p5@4ax.com... >>>>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:14:29 -0000, "Ian Field" >>>>> <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I didn't reject the few (unsolicited) solutions from the minority of >>>>>>smart-asses pretending to know more than they did - I just ignored >>>>>>them. >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> Well, since ignorance seems to be your strong suit, that was probably >>>>> a good move on your part. >>>> >>>>Well I certainly saved myself some aggro by ignoring the unsuitable >>>>topology >>>>suggested by your chum. >>> >>>--- >>>"Aggro"? >>> >>>Oh, my, how cute! >>> >>>If you ignored it, then there's no way you could have determined >>>whether it was suitable or not. >>>--- >>> >>>>Can't help wondering whether he'd have got it right if he had known how >>>>to >>>>do the correct way. >>> >>>--- >>>Your pretending to knowledge of the _correct_ way insinuates that >>>you're privy to information which you obviously don't possess, since >>>you admit to wondering. >>> >>>That makes you a phony. >>> >>>Jim's made a good life for himself and his family, has certainly >>>contributed more than it seems _you_ ever will toward making this >>>world a better place in which to live, and yet all you can do is hurl >>>insolence from the peanut gallery. >>> >>>Just a little envious, are we? >> >> Perhaps Ian, upon completion of his engineering degree, will grace us >> with an elegant solution to the hub dynamo problem ?:-)
--- I think neither is probable. ---
>> My only regret is that I wasted time trying to help Ian. It'll not >> happen again. >> >> ...Jim Thompson > > >Thought you were running the math, not your mouth!
--- You seem capable of understanding only the latter, since you were flummoxed by not being able to get the former. -- JF
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:12:02 -0000, "Ian Field"
<gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> >"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote in >message news:et5mj71t40jmps43fhhb7q67jrj320nng8@4ax.com... >> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:24:27 -0600, John Fields >> <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >> >>>On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:17:54 -0000, "Ian Field" >>><gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message >>>>news:hsqkj7l47sh69jibrs1ia4f6b933lst1p5@4ax.com... >>>>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:14:29 -0000, "Ian Field" >>>>> <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>I didn't reject the few (unsolicited) solutions from the minority of >>>>>>smart-asses pretending to know more than they did - I just ignored >>>>>>them. >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> Well, since ignorance seems to be your strong suit, that was probably >>>>> a good move on your part. >>>> >>>>Well I certainly saved myself some aggro by ignoring the unsuitable >>>>topology >>>>suggested by your chum. >>> >>>--- >>>"Aggro"? >>> >>>Oh, my, how cute! >>> >>>If you ignored it, then there's no way you could have determined >>>whether it was suitable or not. >>>--- >>> >>>>Can't help wondering whether he'd have got it right if he had known how >>>>to >>>>do the correct way. >>> >>>--- >>>Your pretending to knowledge of the _correct_ way insinuates that >>>you're privy to information which you obviously don't possess, since >>>you admit to wondering. >>> >>>That makes you a phony. >>> >>>Jim's made a good life for himself and his family, has certainly >>>contributed more than it seems _you_ ever will toward making this >>>world a better place in which to live, and yet all you can do is hurl >>>insolence from the peanut gallery. >>> >>>Just a little envious, are we? >> >> Perhaps Ian, upon completion of his engineering degree, will grace us >> with an elegant solution to the hub dynamo problem ?:-) >> >> My only regret is that I wasted time trying to help Ian. It'll not >> happen again. >> >> ...Jim Thompson > > >Thought you were running the math, not your mouth! >
Gosh, just how much help was he? -- John Larkin, President Highland Technology Inc www.highlandtechnology.com jlarkin at highlandtechnology dot com Precision electronic instrumentation Picosecond-resolution Digital Delay and Pulse generators Custom timing and laser controllers Photonics and fiberoptic TTL data links VME analog, thermocouple, LVDT, synchro, tachometer Multichannel arbitrary waveform generators
"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message 
news:2m0pj7dsa0h0i70ouitca71ar8moki40ie@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:12:02 -0000, "Ian Field" > <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote: > >> >>"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote >>in >>message news:et5mj71t40jmps43fhhb7q67jrj320nng8@4ax.com... >>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 18:24:27 -0600, John Fields >>> <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote: >>> >>>>On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:17:54 -0000, "Ian Field" >>>><gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message >>>>>news:hsqkj7l47sh69jibrs1ia4f6b933lst1p5@4ax.com... >>>>>> On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:14:29 -0000, "Ian Field" >>>>>> <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>I didn't reject the few (unsolicited) solutions from the minority of >>>>>>>smart-asses pretending to know more than they did - I just ignored >>>>>>>them. >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> Well, since ignorance seems to be your strong suit, that was probably >>>>>> a good move on your part. >>>>> >>>>>Well I certainly saved myself some aggro by ignoring the unsuitable >>>>>topology >>>>>suggested by your chum. >>>> >>>>--- >>>>"Aggro"? >>>> >>>>Oh, my, how cute! >>>> >>>>If you ignored it, then there's no way you could have determined >>>>whether it was suitable or not. >>>>--- >>>> >>>>>Can't help wondering whether he'd have got it right if he had known how >>>>>to >>>>>do the correct way. >>>> >>>>--- >>>>Your pretending to knowledge of the _correct_ way insinuates that >>>>you're privy to information which you obviously don't possess, since >>>>you admit to wondering. >>>> >>>>That makes you a phony. >>>> >>>>Jim's made a good life for himself and his family, has certainly >>>>contributed more than it seems _you_ ever will toward making this >>>>world a better place in which to live, and yet all you can do is hurl >>>>insolence from the peanut gallery. >>>> >>>>Just a little envious, are we? >>> >>> Perhaps Ian, upon completion of his engineering degree, will grace us >>> with an elegant solution to the hub dynamo problem ?:-) >>> >>> My only regret is that I wasted time trying to help Ian. It'll not >>> happen again. >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >> >> >>Thought you were running the math, not your mouth! >> > > Gosh, just how much help was he?
Dunno' - these days I just stand back and watch the amusing antics.
On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:22:38 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>In the past I have designed boost converters in burst mode, with peak >current control, but never with a PWM-controlled loop. > >Outputs: +5 @ 25mA, -5V @ 20mA > >Can someone point me to a tutorial? > >Thanks! > >[Don't point me to an off-the-shelf part. This has to go into a >_custom_ chip... just a little thing... 1mm x 25mm :-] > =09 > ...Jim Thompson
OK it is not in my proper range of expertise, but there has to be a = reason that the device is not 2.5 mm by 10 mm (or even more square). Can you enlighten us?
Somewhere I believe LCD was mentioned.  Typically TFTs have a little silicon 
chip cemented to the glass, providing interface (parallel, serial, 
whatever), control (for at least a buffer, if not some rudimentary fill 
routines), memory, and most importantly, the massive fanout (hundreds of 
rows and columns) required to drive the array itself (which is mainly crummy 
amorphous transistors driving pads which finally drive the liquid crystal). 
Last one I busted open had a shiny strip maybe 2 x 15 mm, a hi-def panel 
would have a lot more.  Probably progress has been made since then and only 
a 1mm strip is required.

Putting inductors anywhere near one of those will be an interesting 
challenge, because the few components that come with are soldered to the 
flex cable.  This includes bypass caps, which you may know from experience 
do not handle strain very well...

Tim

-- 
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

"josephkk" <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message 
news:3iqrj7psde7l8bmg7g78vnbm94tjvrgopj@4ax.com...
On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:22:38 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>In the past I have designed boost converters in burst mode, with peak >current control, but never with a PWM-controlled loop. > >Outputs: +5 @ 25mA, -5V @ 20mA > >Can someone point me to a tutorial? > >Thanks! > >[Don't point me to an off-the-shelf part. This has to go into a >_custom_ chip... just a little thing... 1mm x 25mm :-] > > ...Jim Thompson
OK it is not in my proper range of expertise, but there has to be a reason that the device is not 2.5 mm by 10 mm (or even more square). Can you enlighten us?
Tim Williams wrote:
> > Somewhere I believe LCD was mentioned. Typically TFTs have a little silicon > chip cemented to the glass, providing interface (parallel, serial, > whatever), control (for at least a buffer, if not some rudimentary fill > routines), memory, and most importantly, the massive fanout (hundreds of > rows and columns) required to drive the array itself (which is mainly crummy > amorphous transistors driving pads which finally drive the liquid crystal). > Last one I busted open had a shiny strip maybe 2 x 15 mm, a hi-def panel > would have a lot more. Probably progress has been made since then and only > a 1mm strip is required. > > Putting inductors anywhere near one of those will be an interesting > challenge, because the few components that come with are soldered to the > flex cable. This includes bypass caps, which you may know from experience > do not handle strain very well... > > Tim > > -- > Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk. > Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms > > "josephkk" <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message > news:3iqrj7psde7l8bmg7g78vnbm94tjvrgopj@4ax.com... > On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:22:38 -0700, Jim Thompson > <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > > >In the past I have designed boost converters in burst mode, with peak > >current control, but never with a PWM-controlled loop. > > > >Outputs: +5 @ 25mA, -5V @ 20mA > > > >Can someone point me to a tutorial? > > > >Thanks! > > > >[Don't point me to an off-the-shelf part. This has to go into a > >_custom_ chip... just a little thing... 1mm x 25mm :-] > > > > ...Jim Thompson > > OK it is not in my proper range of expertise, but there has to be a reason > that the device is not 2.5 mm by 10 mm (or even more square). Can you > enlighten us?
I suspect it's a 1 mm sliver of a larger IC. Dicing yield would be a problem with something 40 thou wide and an inch long, not to mention the tendency of the chips to fall over. ;) Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 10:20:10 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

>Tim Williams wrote: >> >> Somewhere I believe LCD was mentioned. Typically TFTs have a little silicon >> chip cemented to the glass, providing interface (parallel, serial, >> whatever), control (for at least a buffer, if not some rudimentary fill >> routines), memory, and most importantly, the massive fanout (hundreds of >> rows and columns) required to drive the array itself (which is mainly crummy >> amorphous transistors driving pads which finally drive the liquid crystal). >> Last one I busted open had a shiny strip maybe 2 x 15 mm, a hi-def panel >> would have a lot more. Probably progress has been made since then and only >> a 1mm strip is required. >> >> Putting inductors anywhere near one of those will be an interesting >> challenge, because the few components that come with are soldered to the >> flex cable. This includes bypass caps, which you may know from experience >> do not handle strain very well... >> >> Tim >> >> -- >> Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk. >> Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms >> >> "josephkk" <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message >> news:3iqrj7psde7l8bmg7g78vnbm94tjvrgopj@4ax.com... >> On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:22:38 -0700, Jim Thompson >> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >> >In the past I have designed boost converters in burst mode, with peak >> >current control, but never with a PWM-controlled loop. >> > >> >Outputs: +5 @ 25mA, -5V @ 20mA >> > >> >Can someone point me to a tutorial? >> > >> >Thanks! >> > >> >[Don't point me to an off-the-shelf part. This has to go into a >> >_custom_ chip... just a little thing... 1mm x 25mm :-] >> > >> > ...Jim Thompson >> >> OK it is not in my proper range of expertise, but there has to be a reason >> that the device is not 2.5 mm by 10 mm (or even more square). Can you >> enlighten us? > > >I suspect it's a 1 mm sliver of a larger IC. Dicing yield would be a >problem with something 40 thou wide and an inch long, not to mention the >tendency of the chips to fall over. ;) > >Cheers > >Phil Hobbs
Nope. The real deal is 1mm x 25mm, with 480 "bumps". And this client just sold their BILLIONETH chip, so they're not amateurs. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 10:20:10 -0500, the renowned Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

> > > >I suspect it's a 1 mm sliver of a larger IC. Dicing yield would be a >problem with something 40 thou wide and an inch long, not to mention the >tendency of the chips to fall over. ;)
Here's a smaller example of this genre of chip: http://www.tstonramp.com/~pddwebacc/ics_app%20notes/solomon/ssd-1805%20-1_4.pdf 11mm x 1.21mm. They're used in zillions of LCD (and I guess OLED) panels in all kinds of consumer goods (cell phones, GPS units, printer and camera displays etc. etc. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 18:58:51 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

>On Fri, 17 Feb 2012 10:20:10 -0500, the renowned Phil Hobbs ><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote: > >> >> >> >>I suspect it's a 1 mm sliver of a larger IC. Dicing yield would be a >>problem with something 40 thou wide and an inch long, not to mention the >>tendency of the chips to fall over. ;) > >Here's a smaller example of this genre of chip: >http://www.tstonramp.com/~pddwebacc/ics_app%20notes/solomon/ssd-1805%20-1_4.pdf > >11mm x 1.21mm. > >They're used in zillions of LCD (and I guess OLED) panels in all kinds >of consumer goods (cell phones, GPS units, printer and camera displays >etc. etc. > > >Best regards, >Spehro Pefhany
Yes ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Jim Thompson wrote:
> > PWM BOOST is NOT trivial, though I'm well on my way to an off-the-wall > STABLE solution... found by running the math instead of my mouth.
Off the wall in what way? -- Reply in group, but if emailing add one more zero, and remove the last word.