Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> wrote:>Klaus Jensen wrote: > >> Can anyone tell me, who are the currently preferred "economy" PCB >> manufacturers operating online with worldwide postal delivery? >> >> Basic doubled sided. Less than 100 x 100mm in size. >> >> Small runs: 10-25 pcs. >> >> No overlay or mask. Cheap but nice. >I use E-Teknet in Arizona, US. They may not be the cheapest, but probably >pretty close. You get excellent quality, I have had over 100 designs done >with them. I have had all sorts of problems with boards done by other >outfits. My biggest pain was paying for electrical test, and then finding >shorts in boards AFTER all the parts were installed. This can be REALLY >difficult to fix on a 4- or 6-layer board.I use Eurocircuits. They scan PCBs with a special flatbed scanner to look for shorts and opens. -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------
Best small run PCB manufacturer
Started by ●January 11, 2012
Reply by ●January 13, 20122012-01-13
Reply by ●January 13, 20122012-01-13
>>> pcbcart.com >>> >>> Used by myself and others here. No problems, quality & service is good. >>> Communications is good. >>> >>> >>pcbcart.com I have bought thousands of boards from them with no problem. >>12 day delivery standard, overlay and mask no charge. > > We have also happily used www.pcbcart.com as our standard fab for > several years, for DS/PTH with mask and overlay. As TTman pointed > out, the masking and overlay are effectively "free" with pcbcart - it > seems to be built into their standard pricing which is quite sensible > from a production point of view. Their communication is excellent and > they will ping you before starting production if they see what appears > to be an error - better than getting a batch of boards with an inbuilt > design cock-up. Saved us time and money once! >I missed that very important point. More than once their front end check has picked up silly mistakes I had made. That alone is worth untold money.... OK so I get a delay of a couple of days. Life isn't that short.
Reply by ●January 13, 20122012-01-13
On 1=D4=C212=C8=D5, =C9=CF=CE=E711=CA=B154=B7=D6, klausjen...@nutradyne.com= (Klaus Jensen) wrote:> Can anyone tell me, who are the currently preferred "economy" PCB > manufacturers operating online with worldwide postal delivery? > > Basic doubled sided. Less than 100 x 100mm in size. > > Small runs: 10-25 pcs. > > No overlay or mask. Cheap but nice. > > Thanks, > > KlausI've take some boards on Onlypcb,china manufacture,not bad,may be you could try it.
Reply by ●January 13, 20122012-01-13
On Jan 12, 12:05=A0pm, Jon Elson <jmel...@wustl.edu> wrote:> Klaus Jensen wrote: > > Can anyone tell me, who are the currently preferred "economy" PCB > > manufacturers operating online with worldwide postal delivery? > > > Basic doubled sided. Less than 100 x 100mm in size. > > > Small runs: 10-25 pcs. > > > No overlay or mask. Cheap but nice. > > I use E-Teknet in Arizona, US. =A0They may not be the cheapest, but proba=bly> pretty close. =A0You get excellent quality, I have had over 100 designs d=one> with them. =A0I have had all sorts of problems with boards done by other > outfits. =A0My biggest pain was paying for electrical test, and then find=ing> shorts in boards AFTER all the parts were installed. =A0This can be REALL=Y> difficult to fix on a 4- or 6-layer board. > > JonHow did they reconcile the electrical test vs. the shorts? --- We've mostly used Advanced Circuits for multilayer boards, generally without (paying for) the electrical testing. Mostly we try to avoid pushing the design rules too closely. This hasn't always worked - we've had occasional opens, and most recently a serious inner layer short on one board (not fixable). On one occasion AdvPCB forgot to put the insulating layer between copper layers 2&3 - they remade the boards at their cost in that case.
Reply by ●January 13, 20122012-01-13
On 1=D4=C214=C8=D5, =C9=CF=CE=E72=CA=B107=B7=D6, cassiope <f...@u.washingto= n.edu> wrote:> On Jan 12, 12:05 pm, Jon Elson <jmel...@wustl.edu> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Klaus Jensen wrote: > > > Can anyone tell me, who are the currently preferred "economy" PCB > > > manufacturers operating online with worldwide postal delivery? > > > > Basic doubled sided. Less than 100 x 100mm in size. > > > > Small runs: 10-25 pcs. > > > > No overlay or mask. Cheap but nice. > > > I use E-Teknet in Arizona, US. They may not be the cheapest, but proba=bly> > pretty close. You get excellent quality, I have had over 100 designs d=one> > with them. I have had all sorts of problems with boards done by other > > outfits. My biggest pain was paying for electrical test, and then find=ing> > shorts in boards AFTER all the parts were installed. This can be REALL=Y> > difficult to fix on a 4- or 6-layer board. > > > Jon > > How did they reconcile the electrical test vs. the shorts? > --- > We've mostly used Advanced Circuits for multilayer boards, generally > without > (paying for) the electrical testing. Mostly we try to avoid pushing > the design rules > too closely. This hasn't always worked - we've had occasional opens, > and most > recently a serious inner layer short on one board (not fixable). On > one occasion > AdvPCB forgot to put the insulating layer between copper layers 2&3 - > they > remade the boards at their cost in that case.I've take some 4Layer boards from www.onlypcb.com that make me surprise,good quality.
Reply by ●January 13, 20122012-01-13
"who where" <noone@home.net> wrote in message news:6r5vg7lvtpgvm76a380dvt00gtdfmrpeoq@4ax.com...> On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 03:54:55 GMT, klausjensen@nutradyne.com (Klaus > Jensen) wrote: > >>Can anyone tell me, who are the currently preferred "economy" PCB >>manufacturers operating online with worldwide postal delivery? >> >>Basic doubled sided. Less than 100 x 100mm in size. >> >>Small runs: 10-25 pcs. >> >>No overlay or mask. Cheap but nice. > > No matter who you choose, you need to check first if their process > handles the file type(s) of your design software.You mean to say that you have found somewhere that doesn't handle Gerbers?? Must be somthing very special --- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to news@netfront.net ---
Reply by ●January 13, 20122012-01-13
cassiope wrote:> How did they reconcile the electrical test vs. the shorts?Well, we just moved to another supplier! One error of that sort and we just blacklisted them forever.> --- > We've mostly used Advanced Circuits for multilayer boards, generally > without > (paying for) the electrical testing. Mostly we try to avoid pushing > the design rules > too closely. This hasn't always worked - we've had occasional opens, > and most > recently a serious inner layer short on one board (not fixable).Well, once I have several hundred $ of parts on a big board, I sure don't want to scrap it. I had to put several amps into the power/ground plane and then observe millivolt differences to try to localize the short. When I got real close, I then shined a bright light on the back of the board and looked through the window around the PTH's until I found one that looked suspicious. I then carved into the board with an X-acto knife until I cut the short. Probably cost me 4 hours to fix one board. Anyway, most vendors will just credit you the $15 or whatever you paid for the per-board part of the order. BIG DEAL! I want their heads mounted on a pole as a warning to other vendors. I can tell by tiny prick marks in the pads when a board has actually been electrically tested on the flying probe tester. Every board ought to have those marks, or I am being cheated by the fabricator. I think the logic is they test the first 5 boards of the lot, and if they pass, they just mark the whole rest of the lot OK. Anybody who does this ought to be fired on the spot. So, now that I have found a fabricator who really DOES make sure there are no screwups or shortcuts, I am very reluctant to switch.> On one occasion > AdvPCB forgot to put the insulating layer between copper layers 2&3 - > they remade the boards at their cost in that case.Gee, I sure HOPE SO! How the heck did that get through electrical test? Did they use the first board as the "golden board" and then check all others against the first? Brilliant plan - unless there is a systematic error in all the boards! Well, I had some similar experiences with Adv. Circuits years ago, where they opened up the power plane clearances on a batch of boards without my authorization. I had already checked the power and ground plane continuity at the specified clearance, so when the opened it up it cut some of the planes. I never knew how these got past electrical test, but they had to remake that batch. For this reason, the tester should be programmed from the board layout, NOT from a "golden board" unless you KNOW that it is truly correct. Jon
Reply by ●January 14, 20122012-01-14
On Jan 13, 4:16=A0pm, Jon Elson <jmel...@wustl.edu> wrote:> cassiope wrote: > > How did they reconcile the electrical test vs. the shorts? > > Well, we just moved to another supplier! =A0One error of that sort > and we just blacklisted them forever.> --- > > We've mostly used Advanced Circuits for multilayer boards, generally > > without > > (paying for) the electrical testing. =A0Mostly we try to avoid pushing > > the design rules > > too closely. =A0This hasn't always worked - we've had occasional opens, > > and most > > recently a serious inner layer short on one board (not fixable). > > Well, once I have several hundred $ of parts on a big board, I sure don't > want to scrap it. =A0I had to put several amps into the power/ground plan=e> and then observe millivolt differences to try to localize the short. > When I got real close, I then shined a bright light on the back of the > board and looked through the window around the PTH's until I found one th=at> looked suspicious. =A0I then carved into the board with an X-acto knife > until I cut the short. =A0Probably cost me 4 hours to fix one board. > > Anyway, most vendors will just credit you the $15 or whatever you paid fo=r> the per-board part of the order. =A0BIG DEAL! =A0I want their heads mount=ed on a> pole as a warning to other vendors. =A0I can tell by tiny prick marks in =the> pads when a board =A0has actually been electrically tested on the flying =probe> tester. =A0Every board ought to have those marks, or I am being cheated b=y> the fabricator. =A0I think the logic is they test the first 5 boards of t=he> lot, and if they pass, they just mark the whole rest of the lot OK. > Anybody who does this ought to be fired on the spot. =A0So, now that I ha=ve> found a fabricator who really DOES make sure there are no screwups or > shortcuts, I am very reluctant to switch. > > > On one occasion > > AdvPCB forgot to put the insulating layer between copper layers 2&3 - > > they remade the boards at their cost in that case. > > Gee, I sure HOPE SO! =A0How the heck did that get through electrical test=?> Did they use the first board as the "golden board" and then check all oth=ers> against the first? =A0Brilliant plan - unless there is a systematic error=in> all the boards! =A0Well, I had some similar experiences with Adv. Circuit=s> years ago, where they opened up the power plane clearances on a batch of > boards without my authorization. =A0I had already checked the power and > ground plane continuity at the specified clearance, so when the opened it > up it cut some of the planes. =A0I never knew how these got past electric=al> test, but they had to remake that batch. =A0For this reason, the tester s=hould> be programmed from the board layout, NOT from a "golden board" unless you > KNOW that it is truly correct. > > JonThe 'error' that caught me off guard was when the PCB Fab house found a large blank area to leave metal letters describing their firm and the part number and the llot run info - RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A HIGH VOLTAGE GAP! All without asking. In defense, the board WAS small and there was no other location, but still.
Reply by ●April 2, 20162016-04-02
在 2012年1月12日星期四 UTC+8上午11:54:55，Klaus Jensen写道：> Can anyone tell me, who are the currently preferred "economy" PCB > manufacturers operating online with worldwide postal delivery? > > Basic doubled sided. Less than 100 x 100mm in size. > > Small runs: 10-25 pcs. > > No overlay or mask. Cheap but nice. > > Thanks, > > Klausmaybe www.4pcba.com can help you, Klaus
Reply by ●April 2, 20162016-04-02
Really? 100 designs? 在 2012年1月13日星期五 UTC+8上午4:05:48，Jon Elson写道：> Klaus Jensen wrote: > > > Can anyone tell me, who are the currently preferred "economy" PCB > > manufacturers operating online with worldwide postal delivery? > > > > Basic doubled sided. Less than 100 x 100mm in size. > > > > Small runs: 10-25 pcs. > > > > No overlay or mask. Cheap but nice. > I use E-Teknet in Arizona, US. They may not be the cheapest, but probably > pretty close. You get excellent quality, I have had over 100 designs done > with them. I have had all sorts of problems with boards done by other > outfits. My biggest pain was paying for electrical test, and then finding > shorts in boards AFTER all the parts were installed. This can be REALLY > difficult to fix on a 4- or 6-layer board. > > Jon
