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LT Spice question

Started by John Larkin December 15, 2011
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:35:25 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>> On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:22:16 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:42:04 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
[...]
>> >>>>>>> ... Why doesn't Home Depot sell stainless steel deck posts? >>>>>>> >>>>>> Touch to drill. Aluminum would be cheaper and good enough. There is a >>>>>> large market but they fail to see it. Galvanized works well, too, it an >>>>>> last decades. >>>>> Aluminum would be enough of a PITA. Just use decent lumber and it'll probably >>>>> outlast Kalifornica. ;-) >>>>> >>>> I found that anything I ever built out of aluminum as a kid, including >>>> some outdoor antenna stuff, will most likely even outlast me. >>> If you're no longer there when it goes "phut" what's the difference? >> >> It'll ding the legacy and posthumous reputation :-) > > Oh, and they won't think a real nutcase put in aluminum deck posts? ;-) >
If I saw aluminum posts at the deck of a house I am interested in buying, that would leave a rather positive impression with me. Just like the 2" by 12" beams under our house did. Now if the whole structure of the deck was metal and the house was concrete/brick I'd whip out my checkbook.
>> Also, I am planning on being there another few decades. Of course, I am >> not the deciding authority about that ... > > Better study Spanish.
I am always planning on doing that and then it doesn't happen. So, next year ... -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 17:37:02 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:35:25 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>> On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:22:16 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> >>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:42:04 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: > >[...] > >>> >>>>>>>> ... Why doesn't Home Depot sell stainless steel deck posts? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Touch to drill. Aluminum would be cheaper and good enough. There is a >>>>>>> large market but they fail to see it. Galvanized works well, too, it an >>>>>>> last decades. >>>>>> Aluminum would be enough of a PITA. Just use decent lumber and it'll probably >>>>>> outlast Kalifornica. ;-) >>>>>> >>>>> I found that anything I ever built out of aluminum as a kid, including >>>>> some outdoor antenna stuff, will most likely even outlast me. >>>> If you're no longer there when it goes "phut" what's the difference? >>> >>> It'll ding the legacy and posthumous reputation :-) >> >> Oh, and they won't think a real nutcase put in aluminum deck posts? ;-) >> > >If I saw aluminum posts at the deck of a house I am interested in >buying, that would leave a rather positive impression with me. Just like >the 2" by 12" beams under our house did.
It would tell me the moron didn't know what he was doing. What other danger lurks. It's *not* the same thing as 2x12s (rather normal construction).
>Now if the whole structure of the deck was metal and the house was >concrete/brick I'd whip out my checkbook.
No wonder you can't keep your house heated. ;-)
>>> Also, I am planning on being there another few decades. Of course, I am >>> not the deciding authority about that ... >> >> Better study Spanish. > > >I am always planning on doing that and then it doesn't happen. So, next >year ...
That's the best time to do anything. I think I'll learn Spanish, too. Next year. Chinese, while I'm at it.
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 17:37:02 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:35:25 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>> On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:22:16 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:42:04 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >> [...] >> >>>>>>>>> ... Why doesn't Home Depot sell stainless steel deck posts? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Touch to drill. Aluminum would be cheaper and good enough. There is a >>>>>>>> large market but they fail to see it. Galvanized works well, too, it an >>>>>>>> last decades. >>>>>>> Aluminum would be enough of a PITA. Just use decent lumber and it'll probably >>>>>>> outlast Kalifornica. ;-) >>>>>>> >>>>>> I found that anything I ever built out of aluminum as a kid, including >>>>>> some outdoor antenna stuff, will most likely even outlast me. >>>>> If you're no longer there when it goes "phut" what's the difference? >>>> It'll ding the legacy and posthumous reputation :-) >>> Oh, and they won't think a real nutcase put in aluminum deck posts? ;-) >>> >> If I saw aluminum posts at the deck of a house I am interested in >> buying, that would leave a rather positive impression with me. Just like >> the 2" by 12" beams under our house did. > > It would tell me the moron didn't know what he was doing. What other danger > lurks. It's *not* the same thing as 2x12s (rather normal construction). >
Au contraire. The danger is with wood. Take a close look at a deck, all those designed-in nooks and crevices where water can pool. That rots out wood, even pressure-treated stuff after a while. You have to constantly maintain things. If you don't then people can get killed: http://www.chrisdhilton.com/newsletters/death_by_deck.htm
>> Now if the whole structure of the deck was metal and the house was >> concrete/brick I'd whip out my checkbook. > > No wonder you can't keep your house heated. ;-) >
This is all wood frame. The house we had before is 1-1/2ft brick, plus insulation. That used less energy per sqft and had a very nice 2-day lowpass function so you needed no A/C. It evened out day and night temps nicely. Best of all, the structure could never burn down and the maintenance was close to zero. [...] -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
On 22 Dec., 18:38, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: > > On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 17:37:02 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wro=
te:
> > >> k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: > >>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:35:25 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> w=
rote:
> > >>>> k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: > >>>>> On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:22:16 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid>=
wrote:
> > >>>>>> k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: > >>>>>>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:42:04 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invali=
d> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: > >> [...] > > >>>>>>>>> =A0 ... Why doesn't Home Depot sell stainless steel deck posts? > > >>>>>>>> Touch to drill. Aluminum would be cheaper and good enough. There=
is a
> >>>>>>>> large market but they fail to see it. Galvanized works well, too=
, it an
> >>>>>>>> last decades. > >>>>>>> Aluminum would be enough of a PITA. =A0Just use decent lumber and=
it'll probably
> >>>>>>> outlast Kalifornica. =A0;-) > > >>>>>> I found that anything I ever built out of aluminum as a kid, inclu=
ding
> >>>>>> some outdoor antenna stuff, will most likely even outlast me. > >>>>> If you're no longer there when it goes "phut" what's the difference=
?
> >>>> It'll ding the legacy and posthumous reputation :-) > >>> Oh, and they won't think a real nutcase put in aluminum deck posts? ;=
-)
> > >> If I saw aluminum posts at the deck of a house I am interested in > >> buying, that would leave a rather positive impression with me. Just li=
ke
> >> the 2" by 12" beams under our house did. > > > It would tell me the moron didn't know what he was doing. =A0What other=
danger
> > lurks. =A0It's *not* the same thing as 2x12s (rather normal constructio=
n).
> > Au contraire. The danger is with wood. Take a close look at a deck, all > those designed-in nooks and crevices where water can pool. That rots out > wood, even pressure-treated stuff after a while. You have to constantly > maintain things. If you don't then people can get killed: >
the trick is to avoid all those places where water can pool why not use concrete, you need something to keep the wood off the ground anyway, like these: http://www.bmc-danmark.com/images/c9e1a665bd6cdeabe4e7bb28da8a72f5Stolpebae= rere_0705_low.pdf
> http://www.chrisdhilton.com/newsletters/death_by_deck.htm > > >> Now if the whole structure of the deck was metal and the house was > >> concrete/brick I'd whip out my checkbook. > > > No wonder you can't keep your house heated. =A0;-) > > This is all wood frame. The house we had before is 1-1/2ft brick, plus > insulation. That used less energy per sqft and had a very nice 2-day > lowpass function so you needed no A/C. It evened out day and night temps > nicely. Best of all, the structure could never burn down and the > maintenance was close to zero. >
It always seemed to me that many american house are glorified cardboard boxes Most houses here are brick outside and cinderblock inside, rules require a minimum of something like 200mm rockwool insulation on walls and about double that under floors and roof in new buildings A brick house may not burn as such but that might just mean you need a bigger bulldozer to get right of it -Lasse
langwadt@fonz.dk wrote:
> On 22 Dec., 18:38, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 17:37:02 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:35:25 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:22:16 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>> k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:42:04 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>> [...] >>>>>>>>>>> ... Why doesn't Home Depot sell stainless steel deck posts? >>>>>>>>>> Touch to drill. Aluminum would be cheaper and good enough. There is a >>>>>>>>>> large market but they fail to see it. Galvanized works well, too, it an >>>>>>>>>> last decades. >>>>>>>>> Aluminum would be enough of a PITA. Just use decent lumber and it'll probably >>>>>>>>> outlast Kalifornica. ;-) >>>>>>>> I found that anything I ever built out of aluminum as a kid, including >>>>>>>> some outdoor antenna stuff, will most likely even outlast me. >>>>>>> If you're no longer there when it goes "phut" what's the difference? >>>>>> It'll ding the legacy and posthumous reputation :-) >>>>> Oh, and they won't think a real nutcase put in aluminum deck posts? ;-) >>>> If I saw aluminum posts at the deck of a house I am interested in >>>> buying, that would leave a rather positive impression with me. Just like >>>> the 2" by 12" beams under our house did. >>> It would tell me the moron didn't know what he was doing. What other danger >>> lurks. It's *not* the same thing as 2x12s (rather normal construction). >> Au contraire. The danger is with wood. Take a close look at a deck, all >> those designed-in nooks and crevices where water can pool. That rots out >> wood, even pressure-treated stuff after a while. You have to constantly >> maintain things. If you don't then people can get killed: >> > > the trick is to avoid all those places where water can pool > why not use concrete, you need something to keep the wood off the > ground anyway, like these: > http://www.bmc-danmark.com/images/c9e1a665bd6cdeabe4e7bb28da8a72f5Stolpebaerere_0705_low.pdf >
We have that and I am pretty religious in making sure no leaves or dirt piles up at those places. But you know how it goes. A little water or moisture collects at the saddle under the post, wicks up a little into the post and, voila, you've got a rotting process going. On the deck itself this is even less avoidable because somewhere the boards must butt up against posts and other elements. That's where moisture tends to linger and cause rot.
>> http://www.chrisdhilton.com/newsletters/death_by_deck.htm >> >>>> Now if the whole structure of the deck was metal and the house was >>>> concrete/brick I'd whip out my checkbook. >>> No wonder you can't keep your house heated. ;-) >> This is all wood frame. The house we had before is 1-1/2ft brick, plus >> insulation. That used less energy per sqft and had a very nice 2-day >> lowpass function so you needed no A/C. It evened out day and night temps >> nicely. Best of all, the structure could never burn down and the >> maintenance was close to zero. >> > > It always seemed to me that many american house are glorified > cardboard boxes >
Well, but they are fairly flexible when a earthquake comes along. Some of those would knowck down the typical European building and kill people inside.
> Most houses here are brick outside and cinderblock inside, rules > require a minimum of > something like 200mm rockwool insulation on walls and about double > that under floors > and roof in new buildings > > A brick house may not burn as such but that might just mean you need a > bigger bulldozer > to get right of it >
Yeah, depends on what's inside. Plus the roofs can stil burn because they are also wood fram in Denmark. Could be steel but they don't do that. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:38:41 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 17:37:02 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:35:25 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> >>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:22:16 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>>>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:42:04 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>> [...] >>> >>>>>>>>>> ... Why doesn't Home Depot sell stainless steel deck posts? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Touch to drill. Aluminum would be cheaper and good enough. There is a >>>>>>>>> large market but they fail to see it. Galvanized works well, too, it an >>>>>>>>> last decades. >>>>>>>> Aluminum would be enough of a PITA. Just use decent lumber and it'll probably >>>>>>>> outlast Kalifornica. ;-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I found that anything I ever built out of aluminum as a kid, including >>>>>>> some outdoor antenna stuff, will most likely even outlast me. >>>>>> If you're no longer there when it goes "phut" what's the difference? >>>>> It'll ding the legacy and posthumous reputation :-) >>>> Oh, and they won't think a real nutcase put in aluminum deck posts? ;-) >>>> >>> If I saw aluminum posts at the deck of a house I am interested in >>> buying, that would leave a rather positive impression with me. Just like >>> the 2" by 12" beams under our house did. >> >> It would tell me the moron didn't know what he was doing. What other danger >> lurks. It's *not* the same thing as 2x12s (rather normal construction). >> > >Au contraire. The danger is with wood. Take a close look at a deck, all >those designed-in nooks and crevices where water can pool. That rots out >wood, even pressure-treated stuff after a while. You have to constantly >maintain things. If you don't then people can get killed: > >http://www.chrisdhilton.com/newsletters/death_by_deck.htm
No, these things are all understood. Wood has been used for decades in millions of homes. Anything "strange" is suspect; the installer was not familiar with standard construction practices. Be very wary.
> >>> Now if the whole structure of the deck was metal and the house was >>> concrete/brick I'd whip out my checkbook. >> >> No wonder you can't keep your house heated. ;-) >> > >This is all wood frame. The house we had before is 1-1/2ft brick, plus >insulation. That used less energy per sqft and had a very nice 2-day >lowpass function so you needed no A/C. It evened out day and night temps >nicely. Best of all, the structure could never burn down and the >maintenance was close to zero.
...but yet you need five cords of wood every year. In Kalifornica!
>[...]
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:38:41 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 17:37:02 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:35:25 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:22:16 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:42:04 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>> [...] >>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ... Why doesn't Home Depot sell stainless steel deck posts? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Touch to drill. Aluminum would be cheaper and good enough. There is a >>>>>>>>>> large market but they fail to see it. Galvanized works well, too, it an >>>>>>>>>> last decades. >>>>>>>>> Aluminum would be enough of a PITA. Just use decent lumber and it'll probably >>>>>>>>> outlast Kalifornica. ;-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I found that anything I ever built out of aluminum as a kid, including >>>>>>>> some outdoor antenna stuff, will most likely even outlast me. >>>>>>> If you're no longer there when it goes "phut" what's the difference? >>>>>> It'll ding the legacy and posthumous reputation :-) >>>>> Oh, and they won't think a real nutcase put in aluminum deck posts? ;-) >>>>> >>>> If I saw aluminum posts at the deck of a house I am interested in >>>> buying, that would leave a rather positive impression with me. Just like >>>> the 2" by 12" beams under our house did. >>> It would tell me the moron didn't know what he was doing. What other danger >>> lurks. It's *not* the same thing as 2x12s (rather normal construction). >>> >> Au contraire. The danger is with wood. Take a close look at a deck, all >> those designed-in nooks and crevices where water can pool. That rots out >> wood, even pressure-treated stuff after a while. You have to constantly >> maintain things. If you don't then people can get killed: >> >> http://www.chrisdhilton.com/newsletters/death_by_deck.htm > > No, these things are all understood. Wood has been used for decades in > millions of homes. Anything "strange" is suspect; the installer was not > familiar with standard construction practices. Be very wary.
Construction is not the problem, maintenance is. With aluminum or conrete that problem almost goes away. Another big issue with wood frame construction is slow leaks. I knew a guy who regularly repaired houses where that happened. The usual, a toilet leaks ever so slightly but underneath so nobody sees anything. Year after year, drip, drip, drip. Then one sunny day ... ka-crunch ... the bathroom sagged a few inches. All sorts of stuff broke. It had rotted a beam and part of the pier underneath. I think that one was a high five-digit case because they essentially needed a new bathroom.
>>>> Now if the whole structure of the deck was metal and the house was >>>> concrete/brick I'd whip out my checkbook. >>> No wonder you can't keep your house heated. ;-) >>> >> This is all wood frame. The house we had before is 1-1/2ft brick, plus >> insulation. That used less energy per sqft and had a very nice 2-day >> lowpass function so you needed no A/C. It evened out day and night temps >> nicely. Best of all, the structure could never burn down and the >> maintenance was close to zero. > > ...but yet you need five cords of wood every year. In Kalifornica! >
Well, this is a 3000sqft home with a rather open architecture and this is Norcal where temps reach freezing. We used to live on two cords. That was until they called off global warming :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:38:22 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >> On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:38:41 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 17:37:02 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> >>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:35:25 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:22:16 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:42:04 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>> [...] >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ... Why doesn't Home Depot sell stainless steel deck posts? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Touch to drill. Aluminum would be cheaper and good enough. There is a >>>>>>>>>>> large market but they fail to see it. Galvanized works well, too, it an >>>>>>>>>>> last decades. >>>>>>>>>> Aluminum would be enough of a PITA. Just use decent lumber and it'll probably >>>>>>>>>> outlast Kalifornica. ;-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I found that anything I ever built out of aluminum as a kid, including >>>>>>>>> some outdoor antenna stuff, will most likely even outlast me. >>>>>>>> If you're no longer there when it goes "phut" what's the difference? >>>>>>> It'll ding the legacy and posthumous reputation :-) >>>>>> Oh, and they won't think a real nutcase put in aluminum deck posts? ;-) >>>>>> >>>>> If I saw aluminum posts at the deck of a house I am interested in >>>>> buying, that would leave a rather positive impression with me. Just like >>>>> the 2" by 12" beams under our house did. >>>> It would tell me the moron didn't know what he was doing. What other danger >>>> lurks. It's *not* the same thing as 2x12s (rather normal construction). >>>> >>> Au contraire. The danger is with wood. Take a close look at a deck, all >>> those designed-in nooks and crevices where water can pool. That rots out >>> wood, even pressure-treated stuff after a while. You have to constantly >>> maintain things. If you don't then people can get killed: >>> >>> http://www.chrisdhilton.com/newsletters/death_by_deck.htm >> >> No, these things are all understood. Wood has been used for decades in >> millions of homes. Anything "strange" is suspect; the installer was not >> familiar with standard construction practices. Be very wary. > > >Construction is not the problem, maintenance is. With aluminum or >conrete that problem almost goes away.
Construciton *is* a problem. If your deck is rotting away in a decade it wasn't built properly. If it's aluminum, it's a hack. What else is? Concrete, less so.
>Another big issue with wood frame construction is slow leaks. I knew a >guy who regularly repaired houses where that happened. The usual, a >toilet leaks ever so slightly but underneath so nobody sees anything. >Year after year, drip, drip, drip. Then one sunny day ... ka-crunch ...
"ka-crunch" is that like "phut"?
>the bathroom sagged a few inches. All sorts of stuff broke. It had >rotted a beam and part of the pier underneath. I think that one was a >high five-digit case because they essentially needed a new bathroom.
Sure but I don't see how that's relevant here, unless you're intending to use an aluminum commode. ;-)
>>>>> Now if the whole structure of the deck was metal and the house was >>>>> concrete/brick I'd whip out my checkbook. >>>> No wonder you can't keep your house heated. ;-) >>>> >>> This is all wood frame. The house we had before is 1-1/2ft brick, plus >>> insulation. That used less energy per sqft and had a very nice 2-day >>> lowpass function so you needed no A/C. It evened out day and night temps >>> nicely. Best of all, the structure could never burn down and the >>> maintenance was close to zero. >> >> ...but yet you need five cords of wood every year. In Kalifornica! >> > >Well, this is a 3000sqft home with a rather open architecture and this >is Norcal where temps reach freezing. We used to live on two cords. That >was until they called off global warming :-)
The "temps *reach* freezing and you use five cords of wood?! I knew people in Vermont that used about that and the temps there would sometimes "reach freezing" from the other side, in the winter. ;-) That house is leaking like a sieve. :-(
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:38:22 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>> On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:38:41 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 17:37:02 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:35:25 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:22:16 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:42:04 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> [...] >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ... Why doesn't Home Depot sell stainless steel deck posts? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Touch to drill. Aluminum would be cheaper and good enough. There is a >>>>>>>>>>>> large market but they fail to see it. Galvanized works well, too, it an >>>>>>>>>>>> last decades. >>>>>>>>>>> Aluminum would be enough of a PITA. Just use decent lumber and it'll probably >>>>>>>>>>> outlast Kalifornica. ;-) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I found that anything I ever built out of aluminum as a kid, including >>>>>>>>>> some outdoor antenna stuff, will most likely even outlast me. >>>>>>>>> If you're no longer there when it goes "phut" what's the difference? >>>>>>>> It'll ding the legacy and posthumous reputation :-) >>>>>>> Oh, and they won't think a real nutcase put in aluminum deck posts? ;-) >>>>>>> >>>>>> If I saw aluminum posts at the deck of a house I am interested in >>>>>> buying, that would leave a rather positive impression with me. Just like >>>>>> the 2" by 12" beams under our house did. >>>>> It would tell me the moron didn't know what he was doing. What other danger >>>>> lurks. It's *not* the same thing as 2x12s (rather normal construction). >>>>> >>>> Au contraire. The danger is with wood. Take a close look at a deck, all >>>> those designed-in nooks and crevices where water can pool. That rots out >>>> wood, even pressure-treated stuff after a while. You have to constantly >>>> maintain things. If you don't then people can get killed: >>>> >>>> http://www.chrisdhilton.com/newsletters/death_by_deck.htm >>> No, these things are all understood. Wood has been used for decades in >>> millions of homes. Anything "strange" is suspect; the installer was not >>> familiar with standard construction practices. Be very wary. >> >> Construction is not the problem, maintenance is. With aluminum or >> conrete that problem almost goes away. > > Construciton *is* a problem. If your deck is rotting away in a decade it > wasn't built properly. ...
It's several decades. But the fact is, once a hous is 30-40 years old you either plunk down $20k++ for a new deck or there'll be constant repairs. The Romans would have laughed about that, their stuff often lasted 100 decades and more.
> ... If it's aluminum, it's a hack. What else is? > Concrete, less so. >
If it was aluminum there'd be no problem. Case in Point: Our antenna. It is made from aluminim, it's been up there for many decades, zero maintenance, zero corrosion or rot, looks almost like a new one.
>> Another big issue with wood frame construction is slow leaks. I knew a >> guy who regularly repaired houses where that happened. The usual, a >> toilet leaks ever so slightly but underneath so nobody sees anything. >> Year after year, drip, drip, drip. Then one sunny day ... ka-crunch ... > > "ka-crunch" is that like "phut"? >
No, worse :-)
>> the bathroom sagged a few inches. All sorts of stuff broke. It had >> rotted a beam and part of the pier underneath. I think that one was a >> high five-digit case because they essentially needed a new bathroom. > > Sure but I don't see how that's relevant here, unless you're intending to use > an aluminum commode. ;-) >
If the piers and beams were from metal that will corrode little or not at all, or from concrete, then this would not have happpened. The owners would not have seen their retirement nest egg shrivel up.
>>>>>> Now if the whole structure of the deck was metal and the house was >>>>>> concrete/brick I'd whip out my checkbook. >>>>> No wonder you can't keep your house heated. ;-) >>>>> >>>> This is all wood frame. The house we had before is 1-1/2ft brick, plus >>>> insulation. That used less energy per sqft and had a very nice 2-day >>>> lowpass function so you needed no A/C. It evened out day and night temps >>>> nicely. Best of all, the structure could never burn down and the >>>> maintenance was close to zero. >>> ...but yet you need five cords of wood every year. In Kalifornica! >>> >> Well, this is a 3000sqft home with a rather open architecture and this >> is Norcal where temps reach freezing. We used to live on two cords. That >> was until they called off global warming :-) > > The "temps *reach* freezing and you use five cords of wood?! I knew people in > Vermont that used about that and the temps there would sometimes "reach > freezing" from the other side, in the winter. ;-) That house is leaking like > a sieve. :-(
It has single-pane windows which doesn't exactly help but is otherwise well insulated. I do not want a fully airtight house like "modern" ones. The air in there gets so stale in the afternoons that I become tired. The main reason is that heating periods have lengthened to about six months out here, sometimes more. It used to be as little as 3-4. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 10:01:34 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >> On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:38:22 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>> On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:38:41 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> >>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 17:37:02 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:35:25 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:22:16 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:42:04 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ... Why doesn't Home Depot sell stainless steel deck posts? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Touch to drill. Aluminum would be cheaper and good enough. There is a >>>>>>>>>>>>> large market but they fail to see it. Galvanized works well, too, it an >>>>>>>>>>>>> last decades. >>>>>>>>>>>> Aluminum would be enough of a PITA. Just use decent lumber and it'll probably >>>>>>>>>>>> outlast Kalifornica. ;-) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I found that anything I ever built out of aluminum as a kid, including >>>>>>>>>>> some outdoor antenna stuff, will most likely even outlast me. >>>>>>>>>> If you're no longer there when it goes "phut" what's the difference? >>>>>>>>> It'll ding the legacy and posthumous reputation :-) >>>>>>>> Oh, and they won't think a real nutcase put in aluminum deck posts? ;-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> If I saw aluminum posts at the deck of a house I am interested in >>>>>>> buying, that would leave a rather positive impression with me. Just like >>>>>>> the 2" by 12" beams under our house did. >>>>>> It would tell me the moron didn't know what he was doing. What other danger >>>>>> lurks. It's *not* the same thing as 2x12s (rather normal construction). >>>>>> >>>>> Au contraire. The danger is with wood. Take a close look at a deck, all >>>>> those designed-in nooks and crevices where water can pool. That rots out >>>>> wood, even pressure-treated stuff after a while. You have to constantly >>>>> maintain things. If you don't then people can get killed: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.chrisdhilton.com/newsletters/death_by_deck.htm >>>> No, these things are all understood. Wood has been used for decades in >>>> millions of homes. Anything "strange" is suspect; the installer was not >>>> familiar with standard construction practices. Be very wary. >>> >>> Construction is not the problem, maintenance is. With aluminum or >>> conrete that problem almost goes away. >> >> Construciton *is* a problem. If your deck is rotting away in a decade it >> wasn't built properly. ... > > >It's several decades. But the fact is, once a hous is 30-40 years old >you either plunk down $20k++ for a new deck or there'll be constant >repairs. The Romans would have laughed about that, their stuff often >lasted 100 decades and more.
...and a waste of resources.
>> ... If it's aluminum, it's a hack. What else is? >> Concrete, less so. >> > >If it was aluminum there'd be no problem. Case in Point: Our antenna. It >is made from aluminim, it's been up there for many decades, zero >maintenance, zero corrosion or rot, looks almost like a new one.
Not the point.
>>> Another big issue with wood frame construction is slow leaks. I knew a >>> guy who regularly repaired houses where that happened. The usual, a >>> toilet leaks ever so slightly but underneath so nobody sees anything. >>> Year after year, drip, drip, drip. Then one sunny day ... ka-crunch ... >> >> "ka-crunch" is that like "phut"? >> > >No, worse :-) > > >>> the bathroom sagged a few inches. All sorts of stuff broke. It had >>> rotted a beam and part of the pier underneath. I think that one was a >>> high five-digit case because they essentially needed a new bathroom. >> >> Sure but I don't see how that's relevant here, unless you're intending to use >> an aluminum commode. ;-) >> > >If the piers and beams were from metal that will corrode little or not >at all, or from concrete, then this would not have happpened. The owners >would not have seen their retirement nest egg shrivel up.
Come on. It's not that expensive to repair these things. Building an entire house out of aluminum isn't going to do the "nest egg" any good, either.
> >>>>>>> Now if the whole structure of the deck was metal and the house was >>>>>>> concrete/brick I'd whip out my checkbook. >>>>>> No wonder you can't keep your house heated. ;-) >>>>>> >>>>> This is all wood frame. The house we had before is 1-1/2ft brick, plus >>>>> insulation. That used less energy per sqft and had a very nice 2-day >>>>> lowpass function so you needed no A/C. It evened out day and night temps >>>>> nicely. Best of all, the structure could never burn down and the >>>>> maintenance was close to zero. >>>> ...but yet you need five cords of wood every year. In Kalifornica! >>>> >>> Well, this is a 3000sqft home with a rather open architecture and this >>> is Norcal where temps reach freezing. We used to live on two cords. That >>> was until they called off global warming :-) >> >> The "temps *reach* freezing and you use five cords of wood?! I knew people in >> Vermont that used about that and the temps there would sometimes "reach >> freezing" from the other side, in the winter. ;-) That house is leaking like >> a sieve. :-( > > >It has single-pane windows which doesn't exactly help but is otherwise >well insulated. I do not want a fully airtight house like "modern" ones. >The air in there gets so stale in the afternoons that I become tired.
Coffee. Walk. Watch daytime television; just one trip through the "guide" in the daytime will get you back to work - pronto.
>The main reason is that heating periods have lengthened to about six >months out here, sometimes more. It used to be as little as 3-4.
Seems you shouldn't have used aluminum framed windows. ;-)