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Can anyone identify a Klixon TA-22 motor protector

Started by Unknown November 5, 2011
My well pump keeps cutting out.  The capacitor tests ok and the relay
contacts appear to be acceptable.  There is this Klixon device (oddly
enough placed inside the case of the capacitor).  I'm trying to make
up a schematic while diagnosing this whole setup, and dont have water
in the meantime.  Of course it's the weekend when I can get any local
help.

What was happening is that the relay for the deep well pump keeps
chattering, and thus the pump can not run properly. Hitting the
control box with a board can often make it kick in. Inside the control
box is a relay, the capacitor, and this Klixon (labelled as TA-22)
inside.  I know this is the motor protector.  It seems to me that the
problem is either a weak coil on the relay, or this protector is bad.

I realize this is not exactly "electronics" related, but you guys
probably have more parts catalogs than I have.  Mainly what I need is
an internal schamatic of this part and any information about it would
be helpful too.  Googling for (Klixon TA-22) brought no useful
results.  (just the usual junk sites and links to further search
engines).  Putting this same phrase in parenthesies "Klixon TA-22" is
not getting me anywhere either.

This device has 4 terminals on it.  3 are connected to wires. One to
the capacitor, one to the Line2, and the other to the pump RUN
winding.  Using an ohm meter on it, shows ALL four terminals are
connected together (sitting on my bench with no power applied).  

Can anyone help.

Thanks



<jw@myplace.com> wrote in message 
news:ouubb7h382cbumsp3ko4t41uvlclmvjv5a@4ax.com...
> My well pump keeps cutting out. The capacitor tests ok and the relay > contacts appear to be acceptable. There is this Klixon device (oddly > enough placed inside the case of the capacitor). I'm trying to make > up a schematic while diagnosing this whole setup, and dont have water > in the meantime. Of course it's the weekend when I can get any local > help. > > What was happening is that the relay for the deep well pump keeps > chattering, and thus the pump can not run properly. Hitting the > control box with a board can often make it kick in. Inside the control > box is a relay, the capacitor, and this Klixon (labelled as TA-22) > inside. I know this is the motor protector. It seems to me that the > problem is either a weak coil on the relay, or this protector is bad. > > I realize this is not exactly "electronics" related, but you guys > probably have more parts catalogs than I have. Mainly what I need is > an internal schamatic of this part and any information about it would > be helpful too. Googling for (Klixon TA-22) brought no useful > results. (just the usual junk sites and links to further search > engines). Putting this same phrase in parenthesies "Klixon TA-22" is > not getting me anywhere either. > > This device has 4 terminals on it. 3 are connected to wires. One to > the capacitor, one to the Line2, and the other to the pump RUN > winding. Using an ohm meter on it, shows ALL four terminals are > connected together (sitting on my bench with no power applied). > > Can anyone help. > > Thanks > > >
Maybe it&#2013266066;s a thermal breaker. Like this one... <http://klixon.com/klixon/motor-protector-th11-th21.htm> Perhaps the TA-22 is really a TH-22 Relays do go, and AC relays chatter when the mechanics are damaged. Its interesting how a AC relay actually works. There is a 'shading ring' that keeps the relay closed. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relay#Basic_design_and_operation> Hope that helps Cheers
"Martin Riddle" <martin_rid@verizon.net> wrote in message 
news:j94tka$m24$1@dont-email.me...
> > <jw@myplace.com> wrote in message > news:ouubb7h382cbumsp3ko4t41uvlclmvjv5a@4ax.com... >> My well pump keeps cutting out. The capacitor tests ok and the relay >> contacts appear to be acceptable. There is this Klixon device (oddly >> enough placed inside the case of the capacitor). I'm trying to make >> up a schematic while diagnosing this whole setup, and dont have water >> in the meantime. Of course it's the weekend when I can get any local >> help. >> >> What was happening is that the relay for the deep well pump keeps >> chattering, and thus the pump can not run properly. Hitting the >> control box with a board can often make it kick in. Inside the >> control >> box is a relay, the capacitor, and this Klixon (labelled as TA-22) >> inside. I know this is the motor protector. It seems to me that the >> problem is either a weak coil on the relay, or this protector is bad. >> >> I realize this is not exactly "electronics" related, but you guys >> probably have more parts catalogs than I have. Mainly what I need is >> an internal schamatic of this part and any information about it would >> be helpful too. Googling for (Klixon TA-22) brought no useful >> results. (just the usual junk sites and links to further search >> engines). Putting this same phrase in parenthesies "Klixon TA-22" is >> not getting me anywhere either. >> >> This device has 4 terminals on it. 3 are connected to wires. One to >> the capacitor, one to the Line2, and the other to the pump RUN >> winding. Using an ohm meter on it, shows ALL four terminals are >> connected together (sitting on my bench with no power applied). >> >> Can anyone help. >> >> Thanks >> >> >> > > Maybe it&#2013266066;s a thermal breaker. Like this one... > <http://klixon.com/klixon/motor-protector-th11-th21.htm> > > Perhaps the TA-22 is really a TH-22 > > Relays do go, and AC relays chatter when the mechanics are damaged. > Its interesting how a AC relay actually works. There is a 'shading > ring' that keeps the relay closed. > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relay#Basic_design_and_operation> > > Hope that helps > > Cheers >
Or it could be a thermal starter <http://www.sensata.com/klixon/motor-protector-8ea.htm> Cheers
On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 23:06:41 -0400, "Martin Riddle"
<martin_rid@verizon.net> wrote:

> ><jw@myplace.com> wrote in message >news:ouubb7h382cbumsp3ko4t41uvlclmvjv5a@4ax.com... >> My well pump keeps cutting out. The capacitor tests ok and the relay >> contacts appear to be acceptable. There is this Klixon device (oddly >> enough placed inside the case of the capacitor). I'm trying to make >> up a schematic while diagnosing this whole setup, and dont have water >> in the meantime. Of course it's the weekend when I can get any local >> help. >> >> What was happening is that the relay for the deep well pump keeps >> chattering, and thus the pump can not run properly. Hitting the >> control box with a board can often make it kick in. Inside the control >> box is a relay, the capacitor, and this Klixon (labelled as TA-22) >> inside. I know this is the motor protector. It seems to me that the >> problem is either a weak coil on the relay, or this protector is bad. >> >> I realize this is not exactly "electronics" related, but you guys >> probably have more parts catalogs than I have. Mainly what I need is >> an internal schamatic of this part and any information about it would >> be helpful too. Googling for (Klixon TA-22) brought no useful >> results. (just the usual junk sites and links to further search >> engines). Putting this same phrase in parenthesies "Klixon TA-22" is >> not getting me anywhere either. >> >> This device has 4 terminals on it. 3 are connected to wires. One to >> the capacitor, one to the Line2, and the other to the pump RUN >> winding. Using an ohm meter on it, shows ALL four terminals are >> connected together (sitting on my bench with no power applied). >> >> Can anyone help. >> >> Thanks >> >> >> > >Maybe it&#2013266066;s a thermal breaker. Like this one... ><http://klixon.com/klixon/motor-protector-th11-th21.htm> > >Perhaps the TA-22 is really a TH-22 > >Relays do go, and AC relays chatter when the mechanics are damaged. >Its interesting how a AC relay actually works. There is a 'shading ring' >that keeps the relay closed. ><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relay#Basic_design_and_operation> > >Hope that helps > >Cheers >
Thanks for the speedy reply. I looked at those sites and it really is TA-22 with the dash in the middle. this one is labelled well and even without my glasses I can read it. I was wandering around that same site, but this part number is not there. Thanks for the help. Good article on wikipedia too.....
jw@myplace.com wrote:
... 
> What was happening is that the relay for the deep well pump keeps > chattering, and thus the pump can not run properly. Hitting the > control box with a board can often make it kick in. Inside the control > box is a relay, the capacitor, and this Klixon (labelled as TA-22) > inside. I know this is the motor protector. It seems to me that the > problem is either a weak coil on the relay, or this protector is bad.
A klixon wouldn't make a relay chatter - a klixon would fail either open or short. If whacking the control box fixes it, then it's either the relay or the cap, so I'd just replace them both. You are free to order a new klixon, but I don't predict that it alone would fix it. Is it a PCB? Point-to-point? You could check for damaged solder joints at the same time. Good Luck! Rich
jw@myplace.com wrote:
> > Thanks for the speedy reply. I looked at those sites and it really is > TA-22 with the dash in the middle. this one is labelled well and even > without my glasses I can read it. > > I was wandering around that same site, but this part number is not > there. Thanks for the help. >
Why not go to the people who sold you the thing that had the klixon in it? That number sounds very much like a house number; whoever built the thing shouldn't object to just sending one out to you, maybe for a couple of bucks for their time - or even telling you a free market equivalent. Good Luck! Rich
On Sat, 05 Nov 2011 21:34:22 -0600, jw@myplace.com wrote:

>Can anyone help.
It Kilxon and it klixoff.
On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 11:25:16 -0800, Rich Grise
<richg@example.net.invalid> wrote:

>jw@myplace.com wrote: >> >> Thanks for the speedy reply. I looked at those sites and it really is >> TA-22 with the dash in the middle. this one is labelled well and even >> without my glasses I can read it. >> >> I was wandering around that same site, but this part number is not >> there. Thanks for the help. >> >Why not go to the people who sold you the thing that had the klixon >in it? That number sounds very much like a house number; whoever built >the thing shouldn't object to just sending one out to you, maybe for >a couple of bucks for their time - or even telling you a free market >equivalent. > >Good Luck! >Rich
The "thing" (Pump control box) came with the property when I bought it. I have no idea when this was installed or by who? I dont know what brand the pump is, and since it's 500 feet down in the well, I cant find out. Tomorrow I will have to go to a plumbing store or the local well driller. Maybe they can identify it. There is a model number on the control cover.
On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 11:21:00 -0800, Rich Grise
<richg@example.net.invalid> wrote:

>jw@myplace.com wrote: >... >> What was happening is that the relay for the deep well pump keeps >> chattering, and thus the pump can not run properly. Hitting the >> control box with a board can often make it kick in. Inside the control >> box is a relay, the capacitor, and this Klixon (labelled as TA-22) >> inside. I know this is the motor protector. It seems to me that the >> problem is either a weak coil on the relay, or this protector is bad. > >A klixon wouldn't make a relay chatter - a klixon would fail either >open or short. If whacking the control box fixes it, then it's either >the relay or the cap, so I'd just replace them both. You are free to >order a new klixon, but I don't predict that it alone would fix it. > >Is it a PCB? Point-to-point? You could check for damaged solder joints >at the same time. > >Good Luck! >Rich
I'll have to see what is available. I may have to buy a whole new control box. With this klixon inside the capacitor housing, this is no normal part. I was hesitant to remove the bottom of the cap, but with 3 wires coming out of it, I know this was no normal cap. It's point to point wires with slip on connectors except to that klixon, where it's soldered. I cleaned all the connetors with samdpaper as well as the relay contacts. I agree the problem is in the relay or cap. Although that klixon protector must be shutting down the motor. It chatters for 20 seconds and cuts out for a minute. Every so often the pump actually does kick in. I'm trying to use the least amount of water.
<jw@myplace.com> wrote in message 
news:pd9eb7d04fbm7gh9epb5s7486u5loi3l7d@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 11:21:00 -0800, Rich Grise > <richg@example.net.invalid> wrote: > >>jw@myplace.com wrote: >>... >>> What was happening is that the relay for the deep well pump keeps >>> chattering, and thus the pump can not run properly. Hitting the >>> control box with a board can often make it kick in. Inside the >>> control >>> box is a relay, the capacitor, and this Klixon (labelled as TA-22) >>> inside. I know this is the motor protector. It seems to me that >>> the >>> problem is either a weak coil on the relay, or this protector is >>> bad. >> >>A klixon wouldn't make a relay chatter - a klixon would fail either >>open or short. If whacking the control box fixes it, then it's either >>the relay or the cap, so I'd just replace them both. You are free to >>order a new klixon, but I don't predict that it alone would fix it. >> >>Is it a PCB? Point-to-point? You could check for damaged solder joints >>at the same time. >> >>Good Luck! >>Rich > > I'll have to see what is available. I may have to buy a whole new > control box. With this klixon inside the capacitor housing, this is > no normal part. I was hesitant to remove the bottom of the cap, but > with 3 wires coming out of it, I know this was no normal cap. > > It's point to point wires with slip on connectors except to that > klixon, where it's soldered. I cleaned all the connetors with > samdpaper as well as the relay contacts. I agree the problem is in > the relay or cap. Although that klixon protector must be shutting > down the motor. It chatters for 20 seconds and cuts out for a minute. > Every so often the pump actually does kick in. I'm trying to use the > least amount of water. >
With 4 wires its most likely a motor starter, PTC type in a sealed package. It would be prudent to call the Mfg and get a replacement as well as a new relay. Cheers