Charlie E. wrote:> On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 12:02:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> Jamie wrote: >>> Joerg wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Folks, >>>> >>>> On my PC this software crashes often and hard and needs too many >>>> re-installs. It slows down one project to a crawl here and that needs to >>>> get done. I could use older versions as long as my client can read the >>>> files into 16.3. Question: >>>> >>>> In your experience, what was a relatively stable (as in "not many >>>> crashes") version I could try to go back to? The license should allow a >>>> downgrade. The support server won't let me in right now but I'll bug >>>> them about that later. >>>> >>>> It'll be a bit of a pain since I won't be able to revisit circuits I >>>> already completed with 16.3 but I may not have a choice. Or maybe >>>> they'll let me use both old and new, the suppoort folks are very >>>> friendly. >>>> >>> IT would be nice to know what type of crashes you are getting? >>> >>> Are these actual built in program messages being generated that causes >>> corruption of your work? It so, you could be taxing some function a bit >>> and the software should know how to recovery it or step backwards that is. >>> If you are getting things like invalid pointers or out of range >>> indexes and things like that? I would venture to say that some one is >>> not doing QC very well... >>> >>> If you are getting errors that show coming from System API's, kernel >>> faults and such, the ones that really causes the rest of your machine a >>> reboot requirement? I would say that you have have something wrong with >>> your PC? I've found that bad memory and a flaky HD (swap file) can cause >>> random problems on top of a machine running to hot and maybe was >>> over clocked! >>> >>> It's always that possibility that you are just working it hard and the >>> program is reaching it's bows with the allocated memory requirements and >>> things like that. I've seen where sloppy use of memory handling can >>> cause the memory pool to get fragmented and some where along the line, >>> windows will just not be able to allocate a piece of memory for the code >>> with no safety checks in the code. >>> >> Yes, I was working it quite hard. I don't know much about software but >> most or probably all of the smoke and spatters seem to come from within >> the app (Orcad) itself. Messages such as "The PSPice COM wrapper error >> has occurred" cannot possibly come from the Windows OS. Then "This >> application has quit unexpectedly. To help Cadence ..." is also pretty >> cliear about the origin. Then there's what I have now, it just refuses >> to do certain simple things, like opening a project. Instead of opening >> or at least displaying some error message Orcad just locks up hard. >> >> >>> Are you using a true Win32 version or some older 16 bit version? It >>> does make a big difference. >>> >> There is only one version and it's supposed to run on Windows XP. Amnd >> it does run. For a few days at a time :-( > > Jeorg, > Please feel free to give me a call tomorrow (monday) if you need > anything. After all, I owe you a bit from the help you have given me > over the years! number is on our website edmondsonengineering.com! >No, you don't owe me :-) As one SW engineer once said after he helped me out of a pickle, "We are all here to serve". -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
Stability of older Orcad/PSpice combos?
Started by ●April 24, 2011
Reply by ●April 25, 20112011-04-25
Reply by ●April 25, 20112011-04-25
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:> On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 21:03:32 -0700, Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> wrote: > >> On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 11:55:42 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 09:17:33 -0700, Charlie E. <edmondson@ieee.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 08:18:01 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Folks, >>>>>> >>>>>> On my PC this software crashes often and hard and needs too many >>>>>> re-installs. It slows down one project to a crawl here and that needs to >>>>>> get done. I could use older versions as long as my client can read the >>>>>> files into 16.3. Question: >>>>>> >>>>>> In your experience, what was a relatively stable (as in "not many >>>>>> crashes") version I could try to go back to? The license should allow a >>>>>> downgrade. The support server won't let me in right now but I'll bug >>>>>> them about that later. >>>>>> >>>>>> It'll be a bit of a pain since I won't be able to revisit circuits I >>>>>> already completed with 16.3 but I may not have a choice. Or maybe >>>>>> they'll let me use both old and new, the suppoort folks are very friendly. >>>>> Jeorg, >>>>> You should be able to use an older version (with caveats!) with the >>>>> new licenses. The older the version, the more likely there was some >>>>> change in the licensing that would break it, though. Anything I can >>>>> do to help? I know a thing or two about the software... ;-) >>>>> >>> Thanks, Charlie. I might take you up on that. >>> >>> >>>>> Charlie >>>> I believe Joerg is using Crapture. That is a guarantee of "lossy" >>>> crashes :-( >>>> >>> Well, yeah, that's part of 16.3 so I am kind of forced to use Capture. >>> That's why I wanted to know, how far back can I safely go without my >>> client losing the ability to read in my stuff? >> You should be able to at least go back to 15.7, or even 15.5 without >> too many problems, unless you use a lot of advanced analysis stuff. >> Capture does pretty well in bringing a version forward, but very >> poorly in pulling an advanced version back, without forcing a save as >> for a prior version. > > One thing to watch is that 16.3 will change formats whenever a save is done, > even if it's automatic. It'll change the formats of all open libraries, too, > unless you're hyper-vigilant. Once they're changed it's hard to go back. > >> I use 15.7, and very rarely get a crash, even >> when using it with Orcad Layout... > > Try selecting an entire page of a busy schematic page, and doing a move. That > was the killer in 15.7 (more or less fixed in 16.3).That I learned during the first day with 16.3 when trying to move a swath of stuff: Don't do that! :-) It froze Capture but recovered after CTRL-ALT-DEL and re-start. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
Reply by ●April 25, 20112011-04-25
On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 00:24:46 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:> >"krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote: >> >> On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 15:35:21 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> > >> >Then I must continue the crash -> re-install game. >> >> I've never had to re-install but the binaries are on a server (floating >> licenses and all that). Then again, we don't use P-Spice anymore, either. > > > It sounds like a hardware problem like not enough RAM, or a dying >hard drive. If you don't have enough RAM, the drive is constantly >reading and writing swap files. That pushes the hardware to it's limits >and causes more errors. Also, it may be old enough to have failing >electrolytics on the motherboard. I recently picked up three Acer >Aspire L100 mini desktops with bad capacitors. All three were running >512 MB of RAM. One also had a bad hard drive. There are just over a >year old.Actually Jeorg, it almost sounds like you have multiple versions installed, in different locations, and the registrations keep getting futzed up. You might just try to run each of the applications individuatlly directly from My Computer, as this will self-register teh applications. I used to have a batch file that ran each exe with a registrations keyword, but can't find it now... :-( Charlie
Reply by ●April 25, 20112011-04-25
On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 07:44:03 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:>Charlie E. wrote: >> On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 12:02:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> >> wrote: >> >>> Jamie wrote: >>>> Joerg wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Folks, >>>>> >>>>> On my PC this software crashes often and hard and needs too many >>>>> re-installs. It slows down one project to a crawl here and that needs to >>>>> get done. I could use older versions as long as my client can read the >>>>> files into 16.3. Question: >>>>> >>>>> In your experience, what was a relatively stable (as in "not many >>>>> crashes") version I could try to go back to? The license should allow a >>>>> downgrade. The support server won't let me in right now but I'll bug >>>>> them about that later. >>>>> >>>>> It'll be a bit of a pain since I won't be able to revisit circuits I >>>>> already completed with 16.3 but I may not have a choice. Or maybe >>>>> they'll let me use both old and new, the suppoort folks are very >>>>> friendly. >>>>> >>>> IT would be nice to know what type of crashes you are getting? >>>> >>>> Are these actual built in program messages being generated that causes >>>> corruption of your work? It so, you could be taxing some function a bit >>>> and the software should know how to recovery it or step backwards that is. >>>> If you are getting things like invalid pointers or out of range >>>> indexes and things like that? I would venture to say that some one is >>>> not doing QC very well... >>>> >>>> If you are getting errors that show coming from System API's, kernel >>>> faults and such, the ones that really causes the rest of your machine a >>>> reboot requirement? I would say that you have have something wrong with >>>> your PC? I've found that bad memory and a flaky HD (swap file) can cause >>>> random problems on top of a machine running to hot and maybe was >>>> over clocked! >>>> >>>> It's always that possibility that you are just working it hard and the >>>> program is reaching it's bows with the allocated memory requirements and >>>> things like that. I've seen where sloppy use of memory handling can >>>> cause the memory pool to get fragmented and some where along the line, >>>> windows will just not be able to allocate a piece of memory for the code >>>> with no safety checks in the code. >>>> >>> Yes, I was working it quite hard. I don't know much about software but >>> most or probably all of the smoke and spatters seem to come from within >>> the app (Orcad) itself. Messages such as "The PSPice COM wrapper error >>> has occurred" cannot possibly come from the Windows OS. Then "This >>> application has quit unexpectedly. To help Cadence ..." is also pretty >>> cliear about the origin. Then there's what I have now, it just refuses >>> to do certain simple things, like opening a project. Instead of opening >>> or at least displaying some error message Orcad just locks up hard. >>> >>> >>>> Are you using a true Win32 version or some older 16 bit version? It >>>> does make a big difference. >>>> >>> There is only one version and it's supposed to run on Windows XP. Amnd >>> it does run. For a few days at a time :-( >> >> Jeorg, >> Please feel free to give me a call tomorrow (monday) if you need >> anything. After all, I owe you a bit from the help you have given me >> over the years! number is on our website edmondsonengineering.com! >> > >No, you don't owe me :-) > >As one SW engineer once said after he helped me out of a pickle, "We are >all here to serve".Let's just say I would be glad to give you advice then... ;-) Charlie
Reply by ●April 25, 20112011-04-25
Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:>Grant wrote: >> >> You're sure that PC it runs on is okay? Run MEMtest for at least a >> weekend, you should get zero memory errors. >> > >Had to work on the weekend because of these dreaded crashes, so no time >for the PC to do that. But I doubt there is a problem. There are only >two programs that notoriously crash: Orcad and Acrobat, and Acrobat got >kicked out which solved that problem. Dozens of other software companies >whose SW is on this PC must have done something right because theirs >does not crash ;-)Grant's suggestion is a good one. In many cases a memory error surfaces by using a particular application while the rest seems to run just fine. I recently used memtest succesfully to find a defective memory module. -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------
Reply by ●April 25, 20112011-04-25
Charlie E. wrote:> On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 00:24:46 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" > <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote: >>> On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 15:35:21 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>> Then I must continue the crash -> re-install game. >>> I've never had to re-install but the binaries are on a server (floating >>> licenses and all that). Then again, we don't use P-Spice anymore, either. >> >> It sounds like a hardware problem like not enough RAM, or a dying >> hard drive. If you don't have enough RAM, the drive is constantly >> reading and writing swap files. That pushes the hardware to it's limits >> and causes more errors. Also, it may be old enough to have failing >> electrolytics on the motherboard. I recently picked up three Acer >> Aspire L100 mini desktops with bad capacitors. All three were running >> 512 MB of RAM. One also had a bad hard drive. There are just over a >> year old. > > Actually Jeorg, it almost sounds like you have multiple versions > installed, in different locations, and the registrations keep getting > futzed up. You might just try to run each of the applications > individuatlly directly from My Computer, as this will self-register > teh applications. I used to have a batch file that ran each exe with > a registrations keyword, but can't find it now... :-( >There is only on directory that holds the software. Whenever it crashes I uninstall, wipe what's possible in that directory (some stuff is rite protected for whatever reason). -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
Reply by ●April 25, 20112011-04-25
Nico Coesel wrote:> Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> Grant wrote: >>> You're sure that PC it runs on is okay? Run MEMtest for at least a >>> weekend, you should get zero memory errors. >>> >> Had to work on the weekend because of these dreaded crashes, so no time >> for the PC to do that. But I doubt there is a problem. There are only >> two programs that notoriously crash: Orcad and Acrobat, and Acrobat got >> kicked out which solved that problem. Dozens of other software companies >> whose SW is on this PC must have done something right because theirs >> does not crash ;-) > > Grant's suggestion is a good one. In many cases a memory error > surfaces by using a particular application while the rest seems to run > just fine. I recently used memtest succesfully to find a defective > memory module. >I'll do that when the computer has the required time off but that rarely happens here :-) However, I doubt it'll find anything because I often use other software to the point where it maxes out the RAM and starts using the HD. That should have crashed if there was bad RAM but it didn't. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
Reply by ●April 25, 20112011-04-25
On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 09:41:56 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:>Charlie E. wrote: >> On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 00:24:46 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" >> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote: >> >>> "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote: >>>> On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 15:35:21 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>> Then I must continue the crash -> re-install game. >>>> I've never had to re-install but the binaries are on a server (floating >>>> licenses and all that). Then again, we don't use P-Spice anymore, either. >>> >>> It sounds like a hardware problem like not enough RAM, or a dying >>> hard drive. If you don't have enough RAM, the drive is constantly >>> reading and writing swap files. That pushes the hardware to it's limits >>> and causes more errors. Also, it may be old enough to have failing >>> electrolytics on the motherboard. I recently picked up three Acer >>> Aspire L100 mini desktops with bad capacitors. All three were running >>> 512 MB of RAM. One also had a bad hard drive. There are just over a >>> year old. >> >> Actually Jeorg, it almost sounds like you have multiple versions >> installed, in different locations, and the registrations keep getting >> futzed up. You might just try to run each of the applications >> individuatlly directly from My Computer, as this will self-register >> teh applications. I used to have a batch file that ran each exe with >> a registrations keyword, but can't find it now... :-( >> > >There is only on directory that holds the software. Whenever it crashes >I uninstall, wipe what's possible in that directory (some stuff is rite >protected for whatever reason).Is that Mormon or Catholic or Baptist "rite" protected? It'll make difference :-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | Remember: Once you go over the hill, you pick up speed
Reply by ●April 25, 20112011-04-25
Jim Thompson wrote:> On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 09:41:56 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> Charlie E. wrote: >>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 00:24:46 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" >>> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote: >>> >>>> "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote: >>>>> On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 15:35:21 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>>>>> Then I must continue the crash -> re-install game. >>>>> I've never had to re-install but the binaries are on a server (floating >>>>> licenses and all that). Then again, we don't use P-Spice anymore, either. >>>> It sounds like a hardware problem like not enough RAM, or a dying >>>> hard drive. If you don't have enough RAM, the drive is constantly >>>> reading and writing swap files. That pushes the hardware to it's limits >>>> and causes more errors. Also, it may be old enough to have failing >>>> electrolytics on the motherboard. I recently picked up three Acer >>>> Aspire L100 mini desktops with bad capacitors. All three were running >>>> 512 MB of RAM. One also had a bad hard drive. There are just over a >>>> year old. >>> Actually Jeorg, it almost sounds like you have multiple versions >>> installed, in different locations, and the registrations keep getting >>> futzed up. You might just try to run each of the applications >>> individuatlly directly from My Computer, as this will self-register >>> teh applications. I used to have a batch file that ran each exe with >>> a registrations keyword, but can't find it now... :-( >>> >> There is only on directory that holds the software. Whenever it crashes >> I uninstall, wipe what's possible in that directory (some stuff is rite >> protected for whatever reason). > > Is that Mormon or Catholic or Baptist "rite" protected? It'll make > difference :-) >Lutheran. Of course :-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
Reply by ●April 25, 20112011-04-25
Charlie E. wrote:> On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 07:44:03 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> > wrote: > >> Charlie E. wrote: >>> On Sun, 24 Apr 2011 12:02:47 -0700, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Jamie wrote: >>>>> Joerg wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Folks, >>>>>> >>>>>> On my PC this software crashes often and hard and needs too many >>>>>> re-installs. It slows down one project to a crawl here and that needs to >>>>>> get done. I could use older versions as long as my client can read the >>>>>> files into 16.3. Question: >>>>>> >>>>>> In your experience, what was a relatively stable (as in "not many >>>>>> crashes") version I could try to go back to? The license should allow a >>>>>> downgrade. The support server won't let me in right now but I'll bug >>>>>> them about that later. >>>>>> >>>>>> It'll be a bit of a pain since I won't be able to revisit circuits I >>>>>> already completed with 16.3 but I may not have a choice. Or maybe >>>>>> they'll let me use both old and new, the suppoort folks are very >>>>>> friendly. >>>>>> >>>>> IT would be nice to know what type of crashes you are getting? >>>>> >>>>> Are these actual built in program messages being generated that causes >>>>> corruption of your work? It so, you could be taxing some function a bit >>>>> and the software should know how to recovery it or step backwards that is. >>>>> If you are getting things like invalid pointers or out of range >>>>> indexes and things like that? I would venture to say that some one is >>>>> not doing QC very well... >>>>> >>>>> If you are getting errors that show coming from System API's, kernel >>>>> faults and such, the ones that really causes the rest of your machine a >>>>> reboot requirement? I would say that you have have something wrong with >>>>> your PC? I've found that bad memory and a flaky HD (swap file) can cause >>>>> random problems on top of a machine running to hot and maybe was >>>>> over clocked! >>>>> >>>>> It's always that possibility that you are just working it hard and the >>>>> program is reaching it's bows with the allocated memory requirements and >>>>> things like that. I've seen where sloppy use of memory handling can >>>>> cause the memory pool to get fragmented and some where along the line, >>>>> windows will just not be able to allocate a piece of memory for the code >>>>> with no safety checks in the code. >>>>> >>>> Yes, I was working it quite hard. I don't know much about software but >>>> most or probably all of the smoke and spatters seem to come from within >>>> the app (Orcad) itself. Messages such as "The PSPice COM wrapper error >>>> has occurred" cannot possibly come from the Windows OS. Then "This >>>> application has quit unexpectedly. To help Cadence ..." is also pretty >>>> cliear about the origin. Then there's what I have now, it just refuses >>>> to do certain simple things, like opening a project. Instead of opening >>>> or at least displaying some error message Orcad just locks up hard. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Are you using a true Win32 version or some older 16 bit version? It >>>>> does make a big difference. >>>>> >>>> There is only one version and it's supposed to run on Windows XP. Amnd >>>> it does run. For a few days at a time :-( >>> Jeorg, >>> Please feel free to give me a call tomorrow (monday) if you need >>> anything. After all, I owe you a bit from the help you have given me >>> over the years! number is on our website edmondsonengineering.com! >>> >> No, you don't owe me :-) >> >> As one SW engineer once said after he helped me out of a pickle, "We are >> all here to serve". > > Let's just say I would be glad to give you advice then... ;-) >Thank you. And I'll call if I really get stuck. So far it seems to be related to things after you left though. Heck, they don't even provide a proper uninstaller and you have to manually erase stuff, but not all the stuff. I remember that Microsim PSpice was rock-solid, can't remember ever crashing that. That is most certainly not the case with what I have now. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
