Forums

10W amplifier, 2.2-2.4GHz

Started by Joel Koltner April 10, 2008
Anyone have an off-the-shelf 2.2-2.4GHz amplifier they like?  ~10W is what I'm 
after.  Mini-Circuits has their ZHL-30W-252+ which would be fine, although at 
$3k I'm continuing to do a bit of searching...

(And before anyone asks, no, I'm not building a high-power WiFi amplifier and, 
yes, I do have the appropriate FCC license to put this thing on the air --  
with various restrictions on the exact frequencies and geographic locations, 
of course.)

---Joel


Joel Koltner wrote:
> Anyone have an off-the-shelf 2.2-2.4GHz amplifier they like? ~10W is what I'm > after. Mini-Circuits has their ZHL-30W-252+ which would be fine, although at > $3k I'm continuing to do a bit of searching... > > (And before anyone asks, no, I'm not building a high-power WiFi amplifier and, > yes, I do have the appropriate FCC license to put this thing on the air -- > with various restrictions on the exact frequencies and geographic locations, > of course.) > > ---Joel > >
I found a pretty nice REMEC/Q-Bit model QBS-275 2400-2450MHz (+46dBm @ P1dB) amp made by QBit on e-bay. Similar amplifiers made by Toshiba in the 2.2 to 2.4 GHz range are available from an e-bay seller Pyrojoseph. -- Joe Leikhim K4SAT "The RFI-EMI-GUY"� "Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it treason." "Follow The Money" ;-P
On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:07:31 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
<zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Anyone have an off-the-shelf 2.2-2.4GHz amplifier they like? ~10W is what I'm >after.
Linear or Class C?
>Mini-Circuits has their ZHL-30W-252+ which would be fine, although at >$3k I'm continuing to do a bit of searching...
See: <http://www.ssbusa.com/kunamp1.html> <http://www.kuhne-electronic.de/en/shop/142_Power_Amplifier>
>(And before anyone asks, no, I'm not building a high-power WiFi amplifier and, >yes, I do have the appropriate FCC license to put this thing on the air -- >with various restrictions on the exact frequencies and geographic locations, >of course.)
Can I guess? MMDS, ITFS, or WiMax? -- # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060 # 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us # http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:07:31 -0700, "Joel Koltner" > <zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Anyone have an off-the-shelf 2.2-2.4GHz amplifier they like? ~10W is what I'm >> after. > > Linear or Class C? > >> Mini-Circuits has their ZHL-30W-252+ which would be fine, although at >> $3k I'm continuing to do a bit of searching... > > See: > <http://www.ssbusa.com/kunamp1.html> > <http://www.kuhne-electronic.de/en/shop/142_Power_Amplifier> > >> (And before anyone asks, no, I'm not building a high-power WiFi amplifier and, >> yes, I do have the appropriate FCC license to put this thing on the air -- >> with various restrictions on the exact frequencies and geographic locations, >> of course.) > > Can I guess? MMDS, ITFS, or WiMax? >
There is an amateur radio band at 2300 MHz -- Joe Leikhim K4SAT "The RFI-EMI-GUY"&#2013266089; "Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it treason." "Follow The Money" ;-P
On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:50:08 -0400, RFI-EMI-GUY
<Rhyolite@NETTALLY.COM> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann wrote: >> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:07:31 -0700, "Joel Koltner" >> <zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> Anyone have an off-the-shelf 2.2-2.4GHz amplifier they like? ~10W is what I'm >>> after. >> >> Linear or Class C? >> >>> Mini-Circuits has their ZHL-30W-252+ which would be fine, although at >>> $3k I'm continuing to do a bit of searching... >> >> See: >> <http://www.ssbusa.com/kunamp1.html> >> <http://www.kuhne-electronic.de/en/shop/142_Power_Amplifier> >> >>> (And before anyone asks, no, I'm not building a high-power WiFi amplifier and, >>> yes, I do have the appropriate FCC license to put this thing on the air -- >>> with various restrictions on the exact frequencies and geographic locations, >>> of course.) >> >> Can I guess? MMDS, ITFS, or WiMax?
>There is an amateur radio band at 2300 MHz
Sure, but it's normally not described as 2.2-2.4 GHz. See the subject line. There are plenty of other services in this frequency area: <http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/960_mhz.html> <http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/2_3_ghz.html> Incidentally, note that XM radio at 2332.50-2345.00 MHz and Sirius is at 2320.00-2332.50 MHz Lots of other users crammed in that band including my microwave oven. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Hi Jeff,

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message 
news:p7mtv3pbtch1qnj28vanl0cvs9oamtul9c@4ax.com...
> Linear or Class C?
Linear.
> <http://www.ssbusa.com/kunamp1.html> > <http://www.kuhne-electronic.de/en/shop/142_Power_Amplifier>
Thanks, I'll look there.
> Can I guess? MMDS, ITFS, or WiMax?
It's a spread-spectrum digital modulation method we cooked up ourselves that's meant to be highly interference resistant while still being high-speed. It's actually not as complicated as most of those commercial standards -- we're just doing "proof of concept" testing and collecting over-the-air bit-error rate statistics. I can't say that much more about it, but that's due to customer confidentiality and all that -- the techniques used are generally well-known, and we're packaging up a bunch of them together to make something that is a bit innovative. ---Joel

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
(snip)

> at 2320.00-2332.50 MHz. Lots of other users crammed in that band > including my microwave oven.
I think your microwave is misbehaving if it is operating that low!
>
-- Joe Leikhim K4SAT "The RFI-EMI-GUY"&#2013266089; "Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? For if it prosper, none dare call it treason." "Follow The Money" ;-P
"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message 
news:c53vv3t0umvosudvllslomrdk8na0gkk3i@4ax.com...
> Incidentally, note that XM radio at 2332.50-2345.00 MHz and Sirius is > at 2320.00-2332.50 MHz Lots of other users crammed in that band > including my microwave oven.
Interestingly the only area we're specifically not allowed to emit any signal at all on is 2290-2310MHz -- NASA's deep space network and hams. Given the type of signals we'll be transmitting (and the margin not being allowed in 2290-2310 implies anyway) I don't expect it'll degrade Sirius or XM, but it will be interesting to see. ---Joel
On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 09:31:20 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 23:50:08 -0400, RFI-EMI-GUY
>>There is an amateur radio band at 2300 MHz > > Sure, but it's normally not described as 2.2-2.4 GHz. See the subject > line. There are plenty of other services in this frequency area: > <http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/960_mhz.html> > <http://www.jneuhaus.com/fccindex/2_3_ghz.html> > > Incidentally, note that XM radio at 2332.50-2345.00 MHz and Sirius is > at 2320.00-2332.50 MHz Lots of other users crammed in that band > including my microwave oven.
There's LOTS of stuff up there - check this out: (careful, it's 93.7 KB, so may take a moment to download) http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/allochrt.pdf Cheers! Rich
On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 09:42:58 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
<zapwireDASHgroups@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Hi Jeff, > >"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message >news:p7mtv3pbtch1qnj28vanl0cvs9oamtul9c@4ax.com... >> Linear or Class C? > >Linear.
Ok. The one's from Germany I listed will work.
>> <http://www.ssbusa.com/kunamp1.html> >> <http://www.kuhne-electronic.de/en/shop/142_Power_Amplifier> > >Thanks, I'll look there. > >> Can I guess? MMDS, ITFS, or WiMax?
>It's a spread-spectrum digital modulation method we cooked up ourselves that's >meant to be highly interference resistant while still being high-speed.
The biggest source of interference is your own transmitter reflected off some object and arriving late to the party, but just in time to clobber the next packet, or fatally trash the incident signal. Also, some nasty nulls due to frequency selective fading. Pleeeeeze, no Xmax (xG) style claims: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmax> <http://www.xgtechnology.com/technology.asp>
>It's >actually not as complicated as most of those commercial standards -- we're >just doing "proof of concept" testing and collecting over-the-air bit-error >rate statistics.
You don't need 10 watts of RF for that. 802.11a/g has a rather high +7dB peak to average power ratio[1]. Hopefully, your scheme will be better. Also, 10 watt power amps are not all that linear. If you scheme requires minimal envelope distortion and good linearity, you may need to buy a 10 watt amp, just to get 1 watt of linear output. On a good day, figure on about 15% efficiency at 10 watts output, so you need to supply about 67 watts of DC. If you're testing this outdoors, you're going to trash a large number of existing systems and users. Let me guess... your system belches RF even when there's no data moving on the link? The FCC "licence" is not an open invitation to operate a jammer.
>I can't say that much more about it, but that's due to >customer confidentiality and all that -- the techniques used are generally >well-known, and we're packaging up a bunch of them together to make something >that is a bit innovative.
Hmmm... well known with lots of bits per baud? I'll guess Wavelet/Fractal modulation? Good luck... [1] OFDM can tolerate about 2dB of compression so the real peak-to-average power ratio is more like +5dB. -- # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060 # 831-336-2558 jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us # http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS