Turn your Rigol DS1052E Oscilloscope into a 100MHz DS1102E

Nial Stewart wrote:
>> It's also very dishonest and goes to show why humanity will never
>> make it very far. People like Larkin are too arrogant to understand
>> this. Do you think people would buy their products if they knew that
>> the only difference between the low end and high end versions is the
>> price....
>
> ...and access to extended functionality that someone's had to be paid
> to develop?

In this case Rigol actually went to the trouble to design-in circuitry to 
enable this 50MHz "cripple" feature. The front end was clearly designed from 
day one to be at least 100MHz bandwidth, and they then decided to dumb it 
down to meet a lower end market and price point by adding the cripple 
feature.
So George is essentially right, the only effective difference is the price.

>> At the very least they could have added some true functional
>> improvement that made it justifiable but simply changing the model
>> number....
>
> ...and access to further functionality that someone's had to be paid
> to develop....

The only extra functionality is being able to go to 2ns timebase instead of 
5ns, everything else is identical. A couple of lines of code?

Any extra design effort that has gone into this product all went in to 
designing the cripple feature to dumb it down!

>>  doesn't justify a 40% price increase.
>
> By your logic Microsoft should only be charging $0.50 for the costs
> of the DVD when they sell Windows7.

A completely silly analogy.

Dave.

-- 
---------------------------------------------
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
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On Mar 31, 1:03=A0pm, John Larkin
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

> What you have done is possibly a criminal act in the USA, using a
> computer to deprive Rigol of revenue

[...]

>The act is
> arguably legal theft. It's certainly moral theft.

If I bought a house, and it included an extra bedroom that wasn't
advertised and was padlocked shut, I wouldn't feel guilty breaking the
padlock in the least. Would you?

Cheers,

Al

> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 03:02:13 -0500, George Jefferson wrote:
>
>
>> It's also very dishonest

Hmmm, Rigol is the dishonest party here.

They sell you a device that's made with 100Mhz circuitry and then hold 
it hostage until you pay more.

hamilton

> Hmmm, Rigol is the dishonest party here.
>
> They sell you a device that's made with 100Mhz circuitry and then hold it hostage until you pay 
> more.


It's their design, they can market and sell it whatever way they want to
optimise their profits.

Dishonesty would be promising 100MHz performance then delivering 50MHz performance
with a demand for more money to get to 100MHz.

?

Nial

terryc <newsninespam-spam@woa.com.au> writes:

> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 03:02:13 -0500, George Jefferson wrote:
>
>
>> It's also very dishonest 
>
> Fill me in one that please. (I do not waste bandwidth on youtube).
>
> In this country, if I outrightly own item A and item B, what I do with 
> them is my business (legal restictions aside).  
>
> Where was the dishonest part?
> Was their an agreement signed prohibiting use of some part on one of the 
> items
>
>> Do
>> you think people would buy their products if they knew that the only
>> difference between the low end and high end versions is the price?
>
> Well, the only difference with Casio calculators over the entire range 
> was the number of wires brought out from under the blob, but they still 
> sell like hot cakes.

Not even that, sometimes. My first casio (age ~13) had lots of extra
"hidden" functions (statistical). They just did not appear on the screen
printing on the keyboard overlay! But you could access them by just
pressing the buttons as if they were.

I suppose in the USA now I would be guilty of computer hacking, breaking
the DMCA and breaching license conditions, moral and legal theft.

-- 

John Devereux

>>> It's also very dishonest and goes to show why humanity will never
>>> make it very far. People like Larkin are too arrogant to understand
>>> this. Do you think people would buy their products if they knew that
>>> the only difference between the low end and high end versions is the
>>> price....
>>
>> ...and access to extended functionality that someone's had to be paid
>> to develop?
>
> In this case Rigol actually went to the trouble to design-in circuitry to enable this 50MHz 
> "cripple" feature. The front end was clearly designed from day one to be at least 100MHz 
> bandwidth, and they then decided to dumb it down to meet a lower end market and price point by 
> adding the cripple feature.
> So George is essentially right, the only effective difference is the price.


OK but they had to design in the functionality to allow them to change the
front end bandwidth.

The only way this is dishonest is if they promised something and didn't
deliver it.

If you bought a 50MHz scope you got that, if you spent more you got one
with 100MHz bandwidth.

Someone posted earlier saying they should have just flooded the market with
the 100MHz scope but that's their business decision.

It's not dishonest.

> The only extra functionality is being able to go to 2ns timebase instead of 5ns, everything else 
> is identical. A couple of lines of code?
> Any extra design effort that has gone into this product all went in to designing the cripple 
> feature to dumb it down!

Or add the flexibility to set the bandwidth.


>> By your logic Microsoft should only be charging $0.50 for the costs
>> of the DVD when they sell Windows7.
> A completely silly analogy.

Not really, the argument was that the price should be set on the hardware
and that firmware that enables functionality is dishonest to charge for.


Nial

"Naive  Stewart"

" Hmmm, Rigol is the dishonest party here. "


> It's their design, they can market and sell it whatever way they want to
> optimise their profits.


**  Shame that if they told buyers the truth they would not get away with 
it.

 Obtaining financial benefit by deception is the very definition of criminal 
fraud.


> Dishonesty would be promising 100MHz performance then delivering 50MHz 
> performance
> with a demand for more money to get to 100MHz.


** Nope  -   that would be blatant example of extortion.

    You ignorant dickhead.




....  Phil

"Phul (of it) Allinson"

>> It's their design, they can market and sell it whatever way they want to
>> optimise their profits.
>
> Obtaining financial benefit by deception is the very definition of criminal fraud.

Fair enough, I agree completely with this statement.

If you pay for a scope they say has 50MHz bandwidth, they deliver a scope
that has a 50MHz bandwidth?

If you pay for a scope they say has 100MHz bandwidth, they deliver a scope
that has a 100MHz bandwidth?

Where is the deception?


>> Dishonesty would be promising 100MHz performance then delivering 50MHz performance
>> with a demand for more money to get to 100MHz.
>
> ** Nope  -   that would be blatant example of extortion.

And dishonesty.

Perhaps a better example would be promising a scope with 100MHz bandwidth
then delivering 50MHz bandwidth.

People got exactly what they were prepared to pay for, and AFAIK were getting
good value for money.


>    You ignorant dickhead.

I don't know much about classical music, or opera (apart from Gilbert and Sullivan),
or classical languages, or modern languages, or have read much 'great' literature
so in many ways I am ignorant.

I'll leave the dickhead judgement to my friends.


Nial 

"Naive Fuckwit Stewart"

 " Hmmm, Rigol is the dishonest party here. "


>>> It's their design, they can market and sell it whatever way they want to
>>> optimise their profits.


**  Shame that if they told buyers the truth they would not get away with
it.

Obtaining financial benefit by deception is the very definition of criminal
fraud.

> Where is the deception?


**  In the FACT that the 100MHz version is  NOT actually a different model 
but sells with a very significant price hike -  like 40%.

If they told buyers  THAT  simple truth they would not have any sales.

FUCKWIT  !!!!!!!!!!!



>>> Dishonesty would be promising 100MHz performance then delivering 50MHz 
>>> performance
>>> with a demand for more money to get to 100MHz.
>>
>> ** Nope  -   that would be blatant example of extortion.
>
> Perhaps a better example would be promising a scope with 100MHz bandwidth
> then delivering 50MHz bandwidth.


**  Standard example of consumer fraud - ie obtaining a financial benefit 
( ie product sales ) by a deception.

 YOU  FUCKWIT   POMMY  MORON  !!!



> I'll leave the dickhead judgement to my friends.


** ROTFLMAO  !!

This trolling pommy cunthead's only " friends"  have four legs  and go:  " 
hee haw - hee haw   "  !!




....  Phil

I'm afraid I'm not lowering myself to your level Phil.


Where does all that frustration come from?


> YOU  FUCKWIT   POMMY  MORON  !!!


I don't know where you get that from.


Nial.