Anyone using a Welec W20xxA DSO?

Started by Falk Willberg July 8, 2009
On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:15:25 -0700, Joerg wrote:
> > Mostly "Spielwert" is (or at least was) used if something had the > potential of being entertaining but not necessarily of being all that > useful. Like that midlife-crisis sports car purchase :-)
What's "Schadenfreude?" Thanks, Rich
Rich Grise wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:15:25 -0700, Joerg wrote: >> Mostly "Spielwert" is (or at least was) used if something had the >> potential of being entertaining but not necessarily of being all that >> useful. Like that midlife-crisis sports car purchase :-) > > What's "Schadenfreude?" >
I don't think there's a literal translation. Maybe "being spiteful". It's when something bad happens to another person or organization (whom or which you may not like in the first place) and then you are somewhat happy that it happened to him. Very common in "See, told ya so" situations ;-) -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Nico Coesel wrote: >> Falk Willberg <Faweglassenlk@falk-willberg.de> wrote: >> >>> Jan Panteltje schrieb: >>> >>> ... >>> >>>> For about 520 Euro you can buy a Rigol with 1G samples, >>> As I am using Linux, I am quite happy with the open source. So I was >>> able to add functions *I* wanted to have. >>> >>> Also very important: It has a lot of "Spielwert", (if someone could >>> translate that, please ;-) ) and I don't want to use a 30 MHz analog >>> LG5020 (or so) for 300&#2013266084; any longer... >> >> This is quite interesting. An oscilloscope for which you can hack your >> own firmware... Except for using 4 ADCs per channel the concept of the >> design isn't bad. >> > >Have you ever thought what it means in terms of cost when you go from >four 250MHz/8bit ADCs to sixteen of them just to have full bore in 4ch >mode? It's like saying that I want my car to race up that steep hill at >100km/h even when it tows the big trailer. Sure, you can get that, if >you buy a Mercedes Benz S560. But does that make sense?
No, but I completely lost you at the first sentence... The Welec has 16 ADCs to make 4 channels. They probably use the FPGA's internal PLL to make 4 phase shifted clocks (very common in an FPGA). -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... "If it doesn't fit, use a bigger hammer!" --------------------------------------------------------------
Nico Coesel wrote:
> Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> Nico Coesel wrote: >>> Falk Willberg <Faweglassenlk@falk-willberg.de> wrote: >>> >>>> Jan Panteltje schrieb: >>>> >>>> ... >>>> >>>>> For about 520 Euro you can buy a Rigol with 1G samples, >>>> As I am using Linux, I am quite happy with the open source. So I was >>>> able to add functions *I* wanted to have. >>>> >>>> Also very important: It has a lot of "Spielwert", (if someone could >>>> translate that, please ;-) ) and I don't want to use a 30 MHz analog >>>> LG5020 (or so) for 300&#2013266084; any longer... >>> This is quite interesting. An oscilloscope for which you can hack your >>> own firmware... Except for using 4 ADCs per channel the concept of the >>> design isn't bad. >>> >> Have you ever thought what it means in terms of cost when you go from >> four 250MHz/8bit ADCs to sixteen of them just to have full bore in 4ch >> mode? It's like saying that I want my car to race up that steep hill at >> 100km/h even when it tows the big trailer. Sure, you can get that, if >> you buy a Mercedes Benz S560. But does that make sense? > > No, but I completely lost you at the first sentence... The Welec has > 16 ADCs to make 4 channels. They probably use the FPGA's internal PLL > to make 4 phase shifted clocks (very common in an FPGA). >
They have 16 ADCs in there? Wow! Now I slowly begin to understand the circumstances behind the bankruptcy ;-) Phase-shifted clocks via FPGA can be ok for a scope but not if things have to be super-precise. In my apps they usually have to so we auto-tune the clocks to within tens of picoseconds from each other which also mollifies aperture delay tolerances. Then, the offset needs to be auto-cal'd out and if you want to be extra good also any gain tolerances. Not doing this can screw up the FFT to some extent. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
Joerg schrieb:
> Rich Grise wrote: >> On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:15:25 -0700, Joerg wrote: >>> Mostly "Spielwert" is (or at least was) used if something had the >>> potential of being entertaining but not necessarily of being all that >>> useful. Like that midlife-crisis sports car purchase :-) >> >> What's "Schadenfreude?" >> > > I don't think there's a literal translation. Maybe "being spiteful".
dict.leo.org says: malicious joy.
Falk Willberg wrote:
> Joerg schrieb: >> Rich Grise wrote: >>> On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:15:25 -0700, Joerg wrote: >>>> Mostly "Spielwert" is (or at least was) used if something had the >>>> potential of being entertaining but not necessarily of being all that >>>> useful. Like that midlife-crisis sports car purchase :-) >>> What's "Schadenfreude?" >>> >> I don't think there's a literal translation. Maybe "being spiteful". > > dict.leo.org says: malicious joy.
Yes, that would be quite correct but it's a two-word description, not a noun. BTW, in American the word "Schadenfreude" is used just like it is written in German. A lot of times in newspaper articles where it is expected that the average reader simply knows what it means. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.
Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Nico Coesel wrote: >> Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> Nico Coesel wrote: >>>> Falk Willberg <Faweglassenlk@falk-willberg.de> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jan Panteltje schrieb: >>>>> >>>>> ... >>>>> >>>>>> For about 520 Euro you can buy a Rigol with 1G samples, >>>>> As I am using Linux, I am quite happy with the open source. So I was >>>>> able to add functions *I* wanted to have. >>>>> >>>>> Also very important: It has a lot of "Spielwert", (if someone could >>>>> translate that, please ;-) ) and I don't want to use a 30 MHz analog >>>>> LG5020 (or so) for 300&#2013266084; any longer... >>>> This is quite interesting. An oscilloscope for which you can hack your >>>> own firmware... Except for using 4 ADCs per channel the concept of the >>>> design isn't bad. >>>> >>> Have you ever thought what it means in terms of cost when you go from >>> four 250MHz/8bit ADCs to sixteen of them just to have full bore in 4ch >>> mode? It's like saying that I want my car to race up that steep hill at >>> 100km/h even when it tows the big trailer. Sure, you can get that, if >>> you buy a Mercedes Benz S560. But does that make sense? >> >> No, but I completely lost you at the first sentence... The Welec has >> 16 ADCs to make 4 channels. They probably use the FPGA's internal PLL >> to make 4 phase shifted clocks (very common in an FPGA). >> > >They have 16 ADCs in there? Wow! Now I slowly begin to understand the >circumstances behind the bankruptcy ;-) > >Phase-shifted clocks via FPGA can be ok for a scope but not if things >have to be super-precise. In my apps they usually have to so we >auto-tune the clocks to within tens of picoseconds from each other which >also mollifies aperture delay tolerances. Then, the offset needs to be >auto-cal'd out and if you want to be extra good also any gain >tolerances. Not doing this can screw up the FFT to some extent.
Indeed. For GHz sampling you can only tolerate a few ps jitter. I doubt the PLLs in the FPGAs are that good. -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... "If it doesn't fit, use a bigger hammer!" --------------------------------------------------------------
Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Falk Willberg wrote: >> Joerg schrieb: >>> Rich Grise wrote: >>>> On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:15:25 -0700, Joerg wrote: >>>>> Mostly "Spielwert" is (or at least was) used if something had the >>>>> potential of being entertaining but not necessarily of being all that >>>>> useful. Like that midlife-crisis sports car purchase :-) >>>> What's "Schadenfreude?" >>>> >>> I don't think there's a literal translation. Maybe "being spiteful". >> >> dict.leo.org says: malicious joy. > > >Yes, that would be quite correct but it's a two-word description, not a >noun.
Thats probably because English doesn't allow to stick two words together to form a new word. -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... "If it doesn't fit, use a bigger hammer!" --------------------------------------------------------------
On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 06:52:28 GMT, Nico Coesel <nico@puntnl.niks> wrote:
> Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >>Falk Willberg wrote: >>> Joerg schrieb: >>>> Rich Grise wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:15:25 -0700, Joerg wrote: >>>>>> Mostly "Spielwert" is (or at least was) used if something had the >>>>>> potential of being entertaining but not necessarily of being all that >>>>>> useful. Like that midlife-crisis sports car purchase :-) >>>>> What's "Schadenfreude?" >>>>> >>>> I don't think there's a literal translation. Maybe "being spiteful". >>> >>> dict.leo.org says: malicious joy. >> >> >>Yes, that would be quite correct but it's a two-word description, not a >>noun. > > Thats probably because English doesn't allow to stick two words > together to form a new word.
I was going to put a very clever paragraph into my newspost with counterexamples that everyone could download, but rather than overdo it I guess I'll let brevity trump cleverness. <grin!> http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Wikipedia:Basic_English_compound_wordlist Frank Mckenney -- The artistic temperament is a disease that afflicts amateurs. It is a disease which arises from men not having sufficient power of expression to utter and get rid of the element of art in their being. ... The great tragedy of the artistic temperament is that it cannot produce any art. -- G.K. Chesterton: On the Wit of Whistler (1905) -- Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887 Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney ayut mined spring dawt cahm (y'all)
Nico Coesel wrote:
> Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> Falk Willberg wrote: >>> Joerg schrieb: >>>> Rich Grise wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:15:25 -0700, Joerg wrote: >>>>>> Mostly "Spielwert" is (or at least was) used if something had the >>>>>> potential of being entertaining but not necessarily of being all that >>>>>> useful. Like that midlife-crisis sports car purchase :-) >>>>> What's "Schadenfreude?" >>>>> >>>> I don't think there's a literal translation. Maybe "being spiteful". >>> dict.leo.org says: malicious joy. >> >> Yes, that would be quite correct but it's a two-word description, not a >> noun. > > Thats probably because English doesn't allow to stick two words > together to form a new word. >
It does, but only after a few decades of pondering. Example: Data sheet became datasheet. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain or send PM.