Non-thermal microwave injuries

When the first reports of diplomats at the American Havana Embassy falling ill
were caused by microwave injuries it seemd quite implausible. Now it seems
more incidents have emerged, and the Frey effect, discovered in the early
1960's, at least indirectly supports the idea microwaves can have lasting non-
thermal effects on humans. The article is at
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/19/us/politics/diplomat-attacks-havana-syndrome.html?searchResultPosition=1

There are links within the article to the Frey effect. 

If anybody can shed further light please do. I always though microwave
injuries were exclusively thermal. 

Thanks for reading,

bob prohaska

On 10/20/2020 8:16 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
> When the first reports of diplomats at the American Havana Embassy falling ill
> were caused by microwave injuries it seemd quite implausible. Now it seems
> more incidents have emerged, and the Frey effect, discovered in the early
> 1960's, at least indirectly supports the idea microwaves can have lasting non-
> thermal effects on humans. The article is at
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/19/us/politics/diplomat-attacks-havana-syndrome.html?searchResultPosition=1
> 
> There are links within the article to the Frey effect.
> 
> If anybody can shed further light please do. I always though microwave
> injuries were exclusively thermal.
> 
> Thanks for reading,
> 
> bob prohaska
> 
In 1970 I was working for a small company making cardiac
pace makers.  We received reports that people with pace makers
were being affected by microwave ovens.  We did some tests and
found that leaky microwaves could interfere with our pace makers.
It wasn't a huge effect, you had to be pretty close, but they did
interfere.

Bill

In <rmpc9p$10o$1@dont-email.me> Bill Gill <billnews2@cox.net> writes:

>> 
>In 1970 I was working for a small company making cardiac
>pace makers.  We received reports that people with pace makers
>were being affected by microwave ovens.  We did some tests and
>found that leaky microwaves could interfere with our pace makers.
>It wasn't a huge effect, you had to be pretty close, but they did
>interfere.

From what I was taught way back this problem was
from the magnetic fields associated with the way
microwave ovens worked, and not with the 
microwaves themselves.  Hence a very quick
dropoff of problems if you were just a couple
of feet away.  (Inverse square law and all that).

Reason:  early pacemakers used a simple magnetic
relay to put them into "test mode".  So if you 
went to the cardiologist for a checkup, they'd
take EKGs, etc., both with and without a magnet
over your chest.
 

-- 
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
		     dannyb@panix.com 
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

bob prohaska wrote:
> When the first reports of diplomats at the American Havana Embassy falling ill
> were caused by microwave injuries it seemd quite implausible. Now it seems
> more incidents have emerged, and the Frey effect, discovered in the early
> 1960's, at least indirectly supports the idea microwaves can have lasting non-
> thermal effects on humans. The article is at
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/19/us/politics/diplomat-attacks-havana-syndrome.html?searchResultPosition=1
> 
> There are links within the article to the Frey effect.

I recall accounts of telephone engineers installing line-of-sight 
microwave links being unable to sire children because their gonads were 
damaged by microwave radiation.  But that would have been heat--Fry not 
Frey, if you'll excuse the pun.

> 
> If anybody can shed further light please do. I always though microwave
> injuries were exclusively thermal.
> 
> Thanks for reading,
> 
> bob prohaska
> 


-- 
When, once, reference was made to a statesman almost universally
recognized as one of the villains of this century, in order to
induce him to a negative judgment, he replied: "My situation is
so different from his, that it is not for me to pass judgment".
Ernst Specker on Paul Bernays