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Any speaker experts here?

Started by Unknown January 28, 2014
This speaker question kinda goes with my previous question(s) about
tubes. I have been looking at tube stuff on the web and some of it
really appeals to me. I'm a machinist and have a shop so making knobs
and the like is easy for me to do. And some of the tube sets with
exposed tubes and transformers sure are pretty. So I got to thinking
about speakers. I would like to have metal enclosures (cans really)
for the speakers that follow  the shape of the speaker. Each speaker
would then be mounted on its own pole. Or maybe three speakers,
mounted vertically, on a pole. The enclosures would be nickel plated.
Probably brass, because I can spin brass. Nickel plate it too. I've
got the stuff. The enclsures should also have some sort of nickel
plated grille too. I know it sounds ridicolous, but the idea appeals
to me. Could I get good sound with the enclosures I'm describing?
Would the enclosure need to be perforated? Shoul I just get a life?
Thanks,
Eric

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On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 13:51:06 -0800, etpm wrote:

> This speaker question kinda goes with my previous question(s) about > tubes. I have been looking at tube stuff on the web and some of it > really appeals to me. I'm a machinist and have a shop so making knobs > and the like is easy for me to do. And some of the tube sets with > exposed tubes and transformers sure are pretty. So I got to thinking > about speakers. I would like to have metal enclosures (cans really) > for the speakers that follow the shape of the speaker. Each speaker > would then be mounted on its own pole. Or maybe three speakers, > mounted vertically, on a pole. The enclosures would be nickel plated. > Probably brass, because I can spin brass. Nickel plate it too. I've got > the stuff. The enclsures should also have some sort of nickel plated > grille too. I know it sounds ridicolous, but the idea appeals to me. > Could I get good sound with the enclosures I'm describing? > Would the enclosure need to be perforated? Shoul I just get a life?
I don't know much, and much of what I know is old. But I think such enclosures would make for horrible sounding speakers. For the most part you need to give the speakers room to move, in rigid cabinets that won't contribute their own motion to the sound. I do know that there's a science to it. 30 years ago -- back when I cared about such things -- the science said that you wanted the speakers mounted in a big cabinet with lots of air volume, with rigid walls and some sort of sound dampening material on the inside (so that you wouldn't hear all the echoes from inside the cabinet). Time progresses, folks have figured out better ways to do things, and I dunno what that is. I'd go looking for a book on DIY speaker cabinets that was written in the last ten years or so, and hope that it's by someone who knows his stuff. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com
On 1/28/2014 4:51 PM, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
> This speaker question kinda goes with my previous question(s) about > tubes. I have been looking at tube stuff on the web and some of it > really appeals to me. I'm a machinist and have a shop so making knobs > and the like is easy for me to do. And some of the tube sets with > exposed tubes and transformers sure are pretty. So I got to thinking > about speakers. I would like to have metal enclosures (cans really) > for the speakers that follow the shape of the speaker. Each speaker > would then be mounted on its own pole. Or maybe three speakers, > mounted vertically, on a pole. The enclosures would be nickel plated. > Probably brass, because I can spin brass. Nickel plate it too. I've > got the stuff. The enclsures should also have some sort of nickel > plated grille too. I know it sounds ridicolous, but the idea appeals > to me. Could I get good sound with the enclosures I'm describing? > Would the enclosure need to be perforated? Shoul I just get a life? > Thanks, > Eric > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. > http://www.avast.com >
There are several programs for speaker cabinet design. You will need the specifications of the speakers provided by the manufacturer. I am in agreement with Tim and my knowledge is also old. Tom
In article <hv8ge9d0583meqhd30lass68gsv752947r@4ax.com>,
 etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

> to me. Could I get good sound with the enclosures I'm describing? > Would the enclosure need to be perforated? Shoul I just get a life?
WinISD Alpha is one of the better programs out there, despite being in alpha. The beta is far more limited. But I'm not sure either will be happy with cylinders - though most of the numbers have more to do with volume, so you can work from a box approximating your can's volume and it should be close, -ish. -- Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.
On Tue, 28 Jan 2014, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

> This speaker question kinda goes with my previous question(s) about > tubes. I have been looking at tube stuff on the web and some of it > really appeals to me. I'm a machinist and have a shop so making knobs > and the like is easy for me to do. And some of the tube sets with > exposed tubes and transformers sure are pretty. So I got to thinking > about speakers. I would like to have metal enclosures (cans really) > for the speakers that follow the shape of the speaker. Each speaker > would then be mounted on its own pole. Or maybe three speakers, > mounted vertically, on a pole. The enclosures would be nickel plated. > Probably brass, because I can spin brass. Nickel plate it too. I've > got the stuff. The enclsures should also have some sort of nickel > plated grille too. I know it sounds ridicolous, but the idea appeals > to me. Could I get good sound with the enclosures I'm describing? > Would the enclosure need to be perforated? Shoul I just get a life? > Thanks, > Eric >
If you can hit the metal cabinet with a hammer and it rings, it probably isn't good as a speaker case. If not much happens when you hit it, it might be okay. Those Radio Shack Minimus 7 speakers (and their descendants) didn't suffer from being in a metal case, but that's the rare case. A whole generation of speakers for shortwave receivers were in metal cases, with open backs, really pretty lousy, but nobody cared since it wasn't about hifi but about voice communication. Thin metal won't work. Michael
On 2014-01-28, etpm@whidbey.com <etpm@whidbey.com> wrote:
> This speaker question kinda goes with my previous question(s) about > tubes. I have been looking at tube stuff on the web and some of it > really appeals to me. I'm a machinist and have a shop so making knobs > and the like is easy for me to do. And some of the tube sets with > exposed tubes and transformers sure are pretty. So I got to thinking > about speakers. I would like to have metal enclosures (cans really) > for the speakers that follow the shape of the speaker. Each speaker > would then be mounted on its own pole. Or maybe three speakers, > mounted vertically, on a pole. The enclosures would be nickel plated. > Probably brass, because I can spin brass. Nickel plate it too. I've > got the stuff. The enclsures should also have some sort of nickel > plated grille too. I know it sounds ridicolous, but the idea appeals > to me. Could I get good sound with the enclosures I'm describing?
smooth curves are good, because they withstand pressure differences without deforming.
> Would the enclosure need to be perforated?
To port or not to port... As I understand, it's a loudness vs fidelity trade-off.
> Shoul I just get a life? > Thanks,
no! build it! -- For a good time: install ntp --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
"Jasen Bleatts" <jasen@xnet.co.nz>

> smooth curves are good, because they withstand pressure differences > without deforming. > >> Would the enclosure need to be perforated? > > To port or not to port..
** FFS Jasen - get a damn dictionary !!!!!!!!!
> As I understand, it's a loudness vs fidelity > trade-off.
** LOL !!! You ? Understand ? ANYthing ???? Even the sheep are laughing out loud. Fuckwits like YOU should only ask questions here. NOT POSTING FUCKING STUPID REPLIES -------------------------------------------------------- .... Phil
On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 13:51:06 -0800, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

>This speaker question kinda goes with my previous question(s) about >tubes. I have been looking at tube stuff on the web and some of it >really appeals to me. I'm a machinist and have a shop so making knobs >and the like is easy for me to do. And some of the tube sets with >exposed tubes and transformers sure are pretty. So I got to thinking >about speakers. I would like to have metal enclosures (cans really) >for the speakers that follow the shape of the speaker. Each speaker >would then be mounted on its own pole. Or maybe three speakers, >mounted vertically, on a pole. The enclosures would be nickel plated. >Probably brass, because I can spin brass. Nickel plate it too. I've >got the stuff. The enclsures should also have some sort of nickel >plated grille too. I know it sounds ridicolous, but the idea appeals >to me. Could I get good sound with the enclosures I'm describing? >Would the enclosure need to be perforated? Shoul I just get a life? >Thanks, >Eric
Defintely do NOT make the enclosures from metal, or anything resonant. The best material is actually one of the cheapest: Particle board. Usually Medium Density Fiberboard (MDF) is recommended, but any flake or chip composite will probably be OK. (High density is also good.) As for your thought about following the shape of the speaker, the enclosure shape is not terribly critical, but the volume is. There are two basic design types: sealed box or ported box. (Omitting exotics like horns and transmission lines.) In either case, the design box volume is related to mechanical properties of the woofer, such as the free-air resonance frequency and the compliance or "springiness" of the suspension. Those can be gotten from the supplier for most of the better brands, but they can also be measured with fairly simple equipment. Then you plug them into a formula that tells you the ideal box volume. Ported speakers have an additional variable. Instead of the box being sealed, there is a "port" in it which is typically tuned by having a heavy cardboard tube behind it. The general idea is that the speaker and box combo has a resonant frequency below which sound output falls off quickly. The port can effectively move it down a bit. It also increases bass output by radiating the lower frequencies itself. So back to your quest: You can do a full design job using speaker parameters (or measurements) and equations (or software), build a nice MDF box, and *then* cover it with metal... or anything else. (Many people opt for fancy wood veneer, but a cheap, simple, and attractive alternative is upholstery fabric. It can be chosen to go with the room decor (and easily changed later), and you can put it on with a staple gun and some careful folding.) Note that box design only pertains to the low-frequency response of the woofer, but most speakers also have a tweeter, or a tweeter and midrange (or multiple). The tweeter/midrange needs to be matched to the upper end of the woofer response, or (more typically) a "crossover" network is used to low-pass filter the woofer and high-pass filter the tweeter/midrange so the overall response is reasonably flat. The crossover is thus an important comonent in the overall system. So the other way you can approach this is to buy a speaker you like (actually a speaker system, including enclosure , woofer, tweeter, crossover, etc) and then cover it with metal. Or buy a kit from a supplier, which will typically have all the parts (sometimes without the enclosure, just construction plans). Follow their plans exactly and then cover the enclosure with metal, OR come up with your own enclosure design that has the exact same interior volume as specified. Best regards, Bob Masta DAQARTA v7.50 Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis www.daqarta.com Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter Frequency Counter, Pitch Track, Pitch-to-MIDI FREE Signal Generator, DaqMusiq generator Science with your sound card!
On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 13:52:43 GMT, N0Spam@daqarta.com (Bob Masta)
wrote:

>On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 13:51:06 -0800, etpm@whidbey.com wrote: > >>This speaker question kinda goes with my previous question(s) about >>tubes. I have been looking at tube stuff on the web and some of it >>really appeals to me. I'm a machinist and have a shop so making knobs >>and the like is easy for me to do. And some of the tube sets with >>exposed tubes and transformers sure are pretty. So I got to thinking >>about speakers. I would like to have metal enclosures (cans really) >>for the speakers that follow the shape of the speaker. Each speaker >>would then be mounted on its own pole. Or maybe three speakers, >>mounted vertically, on a pole. The enclosures would be nickel plated. >>Probably brass, because I can spin brass. Nickel plate it too. I've >>got the stuff. The enclsures should also have some sort of nickel >>plated grille too. I know it sounds ridicolous, but the idea appeals >>to me. Could I get good sound with the enclosures I'm describing? >>Would the enclosure need to be perforated? Shoul I just get a life? >>Thanks, >>Eric > >Defintely do NOT make the enclosures from metal, or anything >resonant. The best material is actually one of the >cheapest: Particle board. Usually Medium Density Fiberboard >(MDF) is recommended, but any flake or chip composite will >probably be OK. (High density is also good.) > >As for your thought about following the shape of the >speaker, the enclosure shape is not terribly critical, but >the volume is. There are two basic design types: sealed box >or ported box. (Omitting exotics like horns and >transmission lines.) In either case, the design box volume >is related to mechanical properties of the woofer, such as >the free-air resonance frequency and the compliance or >"springiness" of the suspension. Those can be gotten from >the supplier for most of the better brands, but they can >also be measured with fairly simple equipment. Then you >plug them into a formula that tells you the ideal box >volume. > >Ported speakers have an additional variable. Instead of the >box being sealed, there is a "port" in it which is typically >tuned by having a heavy cardboard tube behind it. The >general idea is that the speaker and box combo has a >resonant frequency below which sound output falls off >quickly. The port can effectively move it down a bit. It >also increases bass output by radiating the lower >frequencies itself. > >So back to your quest: You can do a full design job using >speaker parameters (or measurements) and equations (or >software), build a nice MDF box, and *then* cover it with >metal... or anything else. (Many people opt for fancy wood >veneer, but a cheap, simple, and attractive alternative is >upholstery fabric. It can be chosen to go with the room >decor (and easily changed later), and you can put it on with >a staple gun and some careful folding.) > >Note that box design only pertains to the low-frequency >response of the woofer, but most speakers also have a >tweeter, or a tweeter and midrange (or multiple). The >tweeter/midrange needs to be matched to the upper end of the >woofer response, or (more typically) a "crossover" network >is used to low-pass filter the woofer and high-pass filter >the tweeter/midrange so the overall response is reasonably >flat. The crossover is thus an important comonent in the >overall system. > >So the other way you can approach this is to buy a speaker >you like (actually a speaker system, including enclosure , >woofer, tweeter, crossover, etc) and then cover it with >metal. > >Or buy a kit from a supplier, which will typically have all >the parts (sometimes without the enclosure, just >construction plans). Follow their plans exactly and then >cover the enclosure with metal, OR come up with your own >enclosure design that has the exact same interior volume as >specified. > >Best regards, > > >Bob Masta > > DAQARTA v7.50 > Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis > www.daqarta.com >Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter > Frequency Counter, Pitch Track, Pitch-to-MIDI > FREE Signal Generator, DaqMusiq generator > Science with your sound card!
Thanks Bob and everyone else who replied nto my question. It seems that making an enclosure that follows the speaker shape is a bad idea. I suppose I could make some from wood lined metal but the shape will still probably be wrong enough to make the speakers sound bad. Eric --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com
On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 09:10:53 -0800, etpm wrote:

> On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 13:52:43 GMT, N0Spam@daqarta.com (Bob Masta) > wrote: > >>On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 13:51:06 -0800, etpm@whidbey.com wrote: >> >>>This speaker question kinda goes with my previous question(s) about >>>tubes. I have been looking at tube stuff on the web and some of it >>>really appeals to me. I'm a machinist and have a shop so making knobs >>>and the like is easy for me to do. And some of the tube sets with >>>exposed tubes and transformers sure are pretty. So I got to thinking >>>about speakers. I would like to have metal enclosures (cans really) for >>>the speakers that follow the shape of the speaker. Each speaker would >>>then be mounted on its own pole. Or maybe three speakers, mounted >>>vertically, on a pole. The enclosures would be nickel plated. >>>Probably brass, because I can spin brass. Nickel plate it too. I've got >>>the stuff. The enclsures should also have some sort of nickel plated >>>grille too. I know it sounds ridicolous, but the idea appeals to me. >>>Could I get good sound with the enclosures I'm describing? Would the >>>enclosure need to be perforated? Shoul I just get a life? Thanks, >>>Eric >> >>Defintely do NOT make the enclosures from metal, or anything resonant. >>The best material is actually one of the cheapest: Particle board. >>Usually Medium Density Fiberboard (MDF) is recommended, but any flake >>or chip composite will probably be OK. (High density is also good.) >> >>As for your thought about following the shape of the speaker, the >>enclosure shape is not terribly critical, but the volume is. There are >>two basic design types: sealed box or ported box. (Omitting exotics >>like horns and transmission lines.) In either case, the design box >>volume is related to mechanical properties of the woofer, such as the >>free-air resonance frequency and the compliance or "springiness" of the >>suspension. Those can be gotten from the supplier for most of the >>better brands, but they can also be measured with fairly simple >>equipment. Then you plug them into a formula that tells you the ideal >>box volume. >> >>Ported speakers have an additional variable. Instead of the box being >>sealed, there is a "port" in it which is typically tuned by having a >>heavy cardboard tube behind it. The general idea is that the speaker >>and box combo has a resonant frequency below which sound output falls >>off quickly. The port can effectively move it down a bit. It also >>increases bass output by radiating the lower frequencies itself. >> >>So back to your quest: You can do a full design job using speaker >>parameters (or measurements) and equations (or software), build a nice >>MDF box, and *then* cover it with metal... or anything else. (Many >>people opt for fancy wood veneer, but a cheap, simple, and attractive >>alternative is upholstery fabric. It can be chosen to go with the room >>decor (and easily changed later), and you can put it on with a staple >>gun and some careful folding.) >> >>Note that box design only pertains to the low-frequency response of the >>woofer, but most speakers also have a tweeter, or a tweeter and midrange >>(or multiple). The tweeter/midrange needs to be matched to the upper >>end of the woofer response, or (more typically) a "crossover" network is >>used to low-pass filter the woofer and high-pass filter the >>tweeter/midrange so the overall response is reasonably flat. The >>crossover is thus an important comonent in the overall system. >> >>So the other way you can approach this is to buy a speaker you like >>(actually a speaker system, including enclosure , woofer, tweeter, >>crossover, etc) and then cover it with metal. >> >>Or buy a kit from a supplier, which will typically have all the parts >>(sometimes without the enclosure, just construction plans). Follow >>their plans exactly and then cover the enclosure with metal, OR come up >>with your own enclosure design that has the exact same interior volume >>as specified. >> >>Best regards, >> >> >>Bob Masta >> >> DAQARTA v7.50 >> Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis >> www.daqarta.com >>Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Sound Level Meter >> Frequency Counter, Pitch Track, Pitch-to-MIDI >> FREE Signal Generator, DaqMusiq generator >> Science with your sound card! > Thanks Bob and everyone else who replied nto my question. It seems that > making an enclosure that follows the speaker shape is a bad idea. > I suppose I could make some from wood lined metal but the shape will > still probably be wrong enough to make the speakers sound bad.
You still seem to be missing the other half of the equation: the volume of the enclosure will still be way too small. Speakers need to be in BIG boxes, or they need some magic with the tuned vents (the teeny Bose speakers have this magic). -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com