Forums

Difference in Coils for Electronic Ignition & Mechanical Ignition

Started by Bret Cahill April 26, 2012
A wiki article said some of the mechanical distributors could simply
be swapped out with electronic ignition distributors.

They didn't say if a new coil was necessary.


Bret Cahill

On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:25:25 -0700 (PDT), Bret Cahill
<Bret_E_Cahill@yahoo.com> wrote:

>A wiki article said some of the mechanical distributors could simply >be swapped out with electronic ignition distributors.
The distributor distributes a high voltage to each cylinder in the order required, there is no electronic equivalent. You could put separate coils on each cylinder. That is done with motorcycles. One coil for each cylinder and one ignition system for each pair of coils - one spark is "wasted" to save. the complexity of additional points or pickups and drive circuitry, adjustments etc.. I think early Fords used free running mechanically interrupted coils for each cylinder. Modern engines can also use this - but they run hot and inefficient. I seem to remember seeing some "emergency" system on sale that works using this idea.
> >They didn't say if a new coil was necessary.
Ignition coil turns ratio may be different for different drive systems.
> > >Bret Cahill
On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 08:01:09 -0400, default wrote:

> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:25:25 -0700 (PDT), Bret Cahill > <Bret_E_Cahill@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>A wiki article said some of the mechanical distributors could simply be >>swapped out with electronic ignition distributors. > > The distributor distributes a high voltage to each cylinder in the order > required, there is no electronic equivalent.
In auto-speak, an "electronic ignition distributor" is a device which retains the high-voltage rotating spark distribution system of a traditional distributor, but replaces the traditional points & condenser of a Kettering ignition with some form of electronic ignition (often capacitive discharge, but possibly just a transistorized set of "points"). So, if you happen to speak the same language as all the auto parts guys in the United States, there is, indeed, an direct electronic equivalent.
> You could put separate coils on each cylinder. That is done with > motorcycles. One coil for each cylinder and one ignition system for > each pair of coils - one spark is "wasted" to save. the complexity of > additional points or pickups and drive circuitry, adjustments etc..
It's also done in many cars these days, for the same reason. The Chevrolet LS-1, I believe, uses this.
> I think early Fords used free running mechanically interrupted coils for > each cylinder. Modern engines can also use this - but they run hot and > inefficient. I seem to remember seeing some "emergency" system on sale > that works using this idea. >> >>They didn't say if a new coil was necessary. > > Ignition coil turns ratio may be different for different drive systems.
The operative word is "may". Some do, by chance. Some use exactly the same coil, by design. Some capacitive discharge systems use coils with the same turns ratio just fine, but can dump a lot more power through the coil -- particularly at high RPM -- than a standard coil can handle. So you can use your stock coil right up until the moment that it lets out the magic smoke (or magic oil). -- My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook. My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook. Why am I not happy that they have found common ground? Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software http://www.wescottdesign.com
On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 12:14:53 -0500, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 08:01:09 -0400, default wrote: > >> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:25:25 -0700 (PDT), Bret Cahill >> <Bret_E_Cahill@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>>A wiki article said some of the mechanical distributors could simply be >>>swapped out with electronic ignition distributors. >> >> The distributor distributes a high voltage to each cylinder in the order >> required, there is no electronic equivalent. > >In auto-speak, an "electronic ignition distributor" is a device which >retains the high-voltage rotating spark distribution system of a >traditional distributor, but replaces the traditional points & condenser >of a Kettering ignition with some form of electronic ignition (often >capacitive discharge, but possibly just a transistorized set of "points"). > >So, if you happen to speak the same language as all the auto parts guys >in the United States, there is, indeed, an direct electronic equivalent. > >> You could put separate coils on each cylinder. That is done with >> motorcycles. One coil for each cylinder and one ignition system for >> each pair of coils - one spark is "wasted" to save. the complexity of >> additional points or pickups and drive circuitry, adjustments etc.. > >It's also done in many cars these days, for the same reason. The >Chevrolet LS-1, I believe, uses this. > >> I think early Fords used free running mechanically interrupted coils for >> each cylinder. Modern engines can also use this - but they run hot and >> inefficient. I seem to remember seeing some "emergency" system on sale >> that works using this idea. >>> >>>They didn't say if a new coil was necessary. >> >> Ignition coil turns ratio may be different for different drive systems. > >The operative word is "may". Some do, by chance. Some use exactly the >same coil, by design. Some capacitive discharge systems use coils with >the same turns ratio just fine, but can dump a lot more power through the >coil -- particularly at high RPM -- than a standard coil can handle. So >you can use your stock coil right up until the moment that it lets out >the magic smoke (or magic oil).
This drives a conventional coil just dandy, better than with points, no magic smoke... http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/Self-Inverting-CD-Ignition.pdf Using this for the inductor... http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/CDI_Inductor.jpg ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Tim Wescott has brought this to us :
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 08:01:09 -0400, default wrote: > >> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:25:25 -0700 (PDT), Bret Cahill >> <Bret_E_Cahill@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >>> A wiki article said some of the mechanical distributors could simply be >>> swapped out with electronic ignition distributors. >> >> The distributor distributes a high voltage to each cylinder in the order >> required, there is no electronic equivalent. > > In auto-speak, an "electronic ignition distributor" is a device which > retains the high-voltage rotating spark distribution system of a > traditional distributor, but replaces the traditional points & condenser > of a Kettering ignition with some form of electronic ignition (often > capacitive discharge, but possibly just a transistorized set of "points"). > > So, if you happen to speak the same language as all the auto parts guys > in the United States, there is, indeed, an direct electronic equivalent. > >> You could put separate coils on each cylinder. That is done with >> motorcycles. One coil for each cylinder and one ignition system for >> each pair of coils - one spark is "wasted" to save. the complexity of >> additional points or pickups and drive circuitry, adjustments etc.. > > It's also done in many cars these days, for the same reason. The > Chevrolet LS-1, I believe, uses this.
GM cars in Australia have done this for many years now 3 coils for 6 cylinders, all electronic, no moving parts.
> >> I think early Fords used free running mechanically interrupted coils for >> each cylinder. Modern engines can also use this - but they run hot and >> inefficient. I seem to remember seeing some "emergency" system on sale >> that works using this idea. >>> >>> They didn't say if a new coil was necessary. >> >> Ignition coil turns ratio may be different for different drive systems. > > The operative word is "may". Some do, by chance. Some use exactly the > same coil, by design. Some capacitive discharge systems use coils with > the same turns ratio just fine, but can dump a lot more power through the > coil -- particularly at high RPM -- than a standard coil can handle. So > you can use your stock coil right up until the moment that it lets out > the magic smoke (or magic oil).
-- John G
On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 12:09:11 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:

> On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 12:14:53 -0500, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.com> > wrote: > >>On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 08:01:09 -0400, default wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:25:25 -0700 (PDT), Bret Cahill >>> <Bret_E_Cahill@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>>A wiki article said some of the mechanical distributors could simply >>>>be swapped out with electronic ignition distributors. >>> >>> The distributor distributes a high voltage to each cylinder in the >>> order required, there is no electronic equivalent. >> >>In auto-speak, an "electronic ignition distributor" is a device which >>retains the high-voltage rotating spark distribution system of a >>traditional distributor, but replaces the traditional points & condenser >>of a Kettering ignition with some form of electronic ignition (often >>capacitive discharge, but possibly just a transistorized set of >>"points"). >> >>So, if you happen to speak the same language as all the auto parts guys >>in the United States, there is, indeed, an direct electronic equivalent. >> >>> You could put separate coils on each cylinder. That is done with >>> motorcycles. One coil for each cylinder and one ignition system for >>> each pair of coils - one spark is "wasted" to save. the complexity of >>> additional points or pickups and drive circuitry, adjustments etc.. >> >>It's also done in many cars these days, for the same reason. The >>Chevrolet LS-1, I believe, uses this. >> >>> I think early Fords used free running mechanically interrupted coils >>> for each cylinder. Modern engines can also use this - but they run >>> hot and inefficient. I seem to remember seeing some "emergency" >>> system on sale that works using this idea. >>>> >>>>They didn't say if a new coil was necessary. >>> >>> Ignition coil turns ratio may be different for different drive >>> systems. >> >>The operative word is "may". Some do, by chance. Some use exactly the >>same coil, by design. Some capacitive discharge systems use coils with >>the same turns ratio just fine, but can dump a lot more power through >>the coil -- particularly at high RPM -- than a standard coil can handle. >> So you can use your stock coil right up until the moment that it lets >>out the magic smoke (or magic oil). > > This drives a conventional coil just dandy, better than with points, no > magic smoke... > > http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/Self-Inverting-CD-Ignition.pdf > > Using this for the inductor... > > http://www.analog-innovations.com/SED/CDI_Inductor.jpg
A friend of mine in the PDX area runs a consulting business. He used to run a company that makes CDI ignitions. His CDI circuit would pump something like 10x the energy into the plugs as a conventional Kettering ignition, and it makes a conventional coil HOT. They sold specially constructed and heat-sunk coils to go with their CDI modules. -- My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook. My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook. Why am I not happy that they have found common ground? Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software http://www.wescottdesign.com
On Sat, 28 Apr 2012 10:23:53 +1000, John G <greentest@ozemail.com.au> wrote:

>Tim Wescott has brought this to us : >> On Fri, 27 Apr 2012 08:01:09 -0400, default wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:25:25 -0700 (PDT), Bret Cahill >>> <Bret_E_Cahill@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>>> A wiki article said some of the mechanical distributors could simply be >>>> swapped out with electronic ignition distributors. >>> >>> The distributor distributes a high voltage to each cylinder in the order >>> required, there is no electronic equivalent. >> >> In auto-speak, an "electronic ignition distributor" is a device which >> retains the high-voltage rotating spark distribution system of a >> traditional distributor, but replaces the traditional points & condenser >> of a Kettering ignition with some form of electronic ignition (often >> capacitive discharge, but possibly just a transistorized set of "points"). >> >> So, if you happen to speak the same language as all the auto parts guys >> in the United States, there is, indeed, an direct electronic equivalent. >> >>> You could put separate coils on each cylinder. That is done with >>> motorcycles. One coil for each cylinder and one ignition system for >>> each pair of coils - one spark is "wasted" to save. the complexity of >>> additional points or pickups and drive circuitry, adjustments etc.. >> >> It's also done in many cars these days, for the same reason. The >> Chevrolet LS-1, I believe, uses this. > >GM cars in Australia have done this for many years now 3 coils for 6 >cylinders, all electronic, no moving parts.
So has Ford in the US (wife's '00 has this setup).