On Tuesday, April 12, 2022 at 4:23:35 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 12, 2022 at 2:20:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 10:43:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > On Saturday, April 9, 2022 at 2:13:54 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 12:34:08 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, April 8, 2022 at 3:22:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > > > > > On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 12:24:12 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
> > > > > > > On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 10:56:18 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 15:21:18 +0100, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >On 05/04/2022 14:46, Don Y wrote:
> <snip>
> > > > > > Imagine ONE Tesla fire (it's pretty bad - everything but steel burns). Now, imagine an ENTIRE PARKING LOT of hundreds of Teslas (or other EVs) burning, which is Ricky's vision for tomorrow.
> > > > >
> > > > > Not exactly. It's what Flyguy imagines to be Rick's vision for tomorrow. Flyguy has a fertile imagination and no grasp of reality at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are parking lots full of hundreds of Teslas - at the Tesla factory - and they don't seem to burst into flames. Maybe if we freeze-dried Flyguy, and crushed him to powder, we could sprinkle the powder over a few EV's and see if they caught on fire. I don't see why they should, but it is clearly an experiment worth trying.
> > > >
> > > > Another IDIOTIC comment by Sloman - most homes don't catch fire either, but when they do it is impressive. But homes don't catch the neighborhood on fire: an EV CAN ignite an entire parking lot.
> > >
> > > Example? And the Great Fire of London and the Great Chicago Fire
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire
> > >
> > > are both examples of house fires that did set the neighbourhood on fire. House spacing and construction is now regulated to stop that happening. EV parking is going to end up being controlled with that in mind, if it actually turns out to be necessary, as opposed to being a figment of Flyguy's fertile imagination.
> > You prove my point, Sloman.
>
> One has to wonder what point Flyguy thought that he had made. He certainly hasn't posted a link to any entire parking lot full of EVs catching on fire.
>
> > And how many Chicago fires have you seen lately, Sloman?
>
> Or recent fires in London? The point is that it used to be real risk and we've worked out how to deal with it. Flyguy seems to think that if he can imagine a situation where the risk hasn't been dealt with, there's no possible way of avoiding the disaster he has managed to imagine.
Translation: NONE!
> > > > Battery fires are TOTALLY different from structural fires, which can be fought with conventional fire fighting techniques - battery fires burn to complete extinction.
> > >
> > > The battery has to be kept cool with a copious flow of water, which is a pretty conventional firefighting technique. Once the battery has got hot enough to burst the cells and expose electrolyte to air where it can burn, the battery is going to keep on self-discharging until all the stored energy has turned into heat.
> >
> > You obviously know NOTHING about battery fires - they CAN'T be kept cool because they are generating their own oxygen. ONLY the surrounding areas can be kept cool to prevent thermal runaway of adjacent batteries.
> If you take the heat away they don't get as hot. Oxygen doesn't come into it. You know nothing about thermal management.
Lithium batteries generate FAR MORE heat than you can take away. Do the math, SNIPPERMAN, a Tesla battery pack has 100 KWH - how much water do you need to take that heat away given that it is NOT submerged and you are spraying water on it?
> > > Catching the self-discharge at an earlier stage before the battery gets anywhere near that hot, and dragging the car out of the parking lot before it can catch on fire is an approach that would work. Flyguy doesn't understand how this might be done, and certainly isn't going to use what's left of his brain to work out the implications of it being possible.
> >
> > Good luck with that, Sloman. Perhaps you are clairvoyant - most firefighters AREN'T!
>
> Any sensible battery management system has to have a least one temperature sensor in the middle of the battery - I'd expect to see at least two, with a second one on the surface of the battery. The temperature is going to be monitored by micropower processor, and if it registers a high internal temperature is can sound an alarm, and put in a mobile phone call to the fire service. The battery is big enough to keep the processor running 24/7.
Sounds like an avalanche sensor that tells you about to be killed.
>
> Not a lot of clairvoyance involved there, but you do need to know a bit about modern electronics, which Flyguy doesn't, even though he is posting to the group sci.electronics.design.
Coming from the IDIOT who advocates NUKING and FIREBOMBING his own country!
> > > A gasoline powered car in the same state volatilises the gasoline in the tank, and water can wash that away, which spreads burning gasoline all over the place, so other firefighting techniques are preferred.
> >
> > Note to the uninformed: gas fires can be stopped by cutting off their source of oxygen; lithium battery fires generate their OWN OXYGEN, fool.
> Cutting off the oxygen source for number of cars parked in a parking garage isn't a well-known fire-fighting technique. Air is ubiquitous.
LOL! It's called spraying them with water, IDIOT!
>
> Lithium battery fires don't generate any oxygen. The oxidiser is built into the battery, and the problem comes when the battery decides to start self-discharging fast enough to get hot. This is detectable long before it gets noticeable or troublesome, but Flyguy doesn't know enough about batteries to appreciate this.
You are just a FUCKING IDIOT, SNIPPERMAN - lithium battery fires DO generate their own oxygen: LOOK IT UP!!!!
>
> --
> SNIPPERMAN, Sydney