Reply by Joe Gwinn ●October 19, 20212021-10-19
On Tue, 19 Oct 2021 17:38:11 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:


>On Tue, 19 Oct 2021 19:32:31 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 19 Oct 2021 15:14:15 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>wrote:
>>>Drivel:  If you think that bacteria, mold, or fungus are attacking
>>>your tools, that's also wrong.  Here's some "white plastic rot":
>>><http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/white-plastic-rot/index.html>
>>>I recently bought about 50 assorted nut drivers and screwdrivers for
>>>very little because the owner thought the white plastic rot was
>>>dangerous.  It took me a few minutes with Scotch-Brite and a bench
>>>buffer to make them look almost like new.
>
>>I've seen that too.  I find that hot water and scrubbing with a white
>>scotchbrite pad takes the fungus off; no buffing needed.
>>
>>Joe Gwinn
>
>It's not bacteria, mold, or fungus.  Look at my microscope photos and
>see if you can recognize anything that might be alive.  My best guess
>is that it's some kind of decomposition of the acrylic (cellulose
>acetate butyrate) plastic.  If I scrape off some of white stuff, it
>will dissolve in acetone, exactly like the base CAB plastic.  When I
>gave the handle an acetone vapor wash, the white stuff "melted" into a
>smooth glossy surface.  Bacteria, mold or fungus doesn't act like
>that.


I looked.  It does not look like what has been happening to my Xcelite
screwdrivers, and Craftsman to a lesser extent.  I'd guess that the
white stuff is some kind of plasticizer.

What often works is naptha (lighter fluid); this will not dissolve the
base resin.  Also try alcohol.



>Also, older tool handles smell like vomit:
><https://toolguyd.com/why-hard-plastic-screwdriver-handles-smell-like-vomit/>


The vomit smell is definitely Butyrate resins.  This cannot be fixed,
except by replacement of the handle.

Joe Gwinn
Reply by Jeff Liebermann ●October 19, 20212021-10-19
On Tue, 19 Oct 2021 19:32:31 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:


>On Tue, 19 Oct 2021 15:14:15 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>>Drivel:  If you think that bacteria, mold, or fungus are attacking
>>your tools, that's also wrong.  Here's some "white plastic rot":
>><http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/white-plastic-rot/index.html>
>>I recently bought about 50 assorted nut drivers and screwdrivers for
>>very little because the owner thought the white plastic rot was
>>dangerous.  It took me a few minutes with Scotch-Brite and a bench
>>buffer to make them look almost like new.



>I've seen that too.  I find that hot water and scrubbing with a white
>scotchbrite pad takes the fungus off; no buffing needed.
>
>Joe Gwinn


It's not bacteria, mold, or fungus.  Look at my microscope photos and
see if you can recognize anything that might be alive.  My best guess
is that it's some kind of decomposition of the acrylic (cellulose
acetate butyrate) plastic.  If I scrape off some of white stuff, it
will dissolve in acetone, exactly like the base CAB plastic.  When I
gave the handle an acetone vapor wash, the white stuff "melted" into a
smooth glossy surface.  Bacteria, mold or fungus doesn't act like
that.

Also, older tool handles smell like vomit:
<https://toolguyd.com/why-hard-plastic-screwdriver-handles-smell-like-vomit/>

-- 
Jeff Liebermann                 jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272      http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann      AE6KS    831-336-2558
Reply by Joe Gwinn ●October 19, 20212021-10-19
On Tue, 19 Oct 2021 15:14:15 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:


>On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 00:30:39 -0700 (PDT), skybuck2000
><skybuck2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Ever heard of such a thing ?
>>
>>This is one of my hypotheses why there is brown stuff on top of a backup motherboard that was inside a box in a closest for many years, at least 10 years, possibly more.
>>
>>However it was bought second-hand, so could also be that previous owner ran it very hot, though it seems more likely that any brown stuff would be wiped off before it would be put into the bag ?
>>
>>So this leads me to this bacteria hypothesis that it formed gasses inside the capacitator and made this brown stuff bubble up.
>
>The hard brown stuff on the outside of an electrolytic capacitor is
>the glue used to hold it to the PCB so that it doesn't fall over
>during wave soldering.
>
>However, the electrolyte does leak:
><https://www.capacitorlab.com/visible-failures/>
>  "The electrolyte discharge can also be larger 
>  covering the top of the cap with a dried substance
>  which can be black, orange, brown, white or a 
>  similar colour."
>
>From my experience, the stuff that leaks out the top is usually white
>or yellow, while the stuff that leaks out the bottom is dark brown or
>black, presumably from the electrolyte reacting with the rubber plug.
>
>Drivel:  If you think that bacteria, mold, or fungus are attacking
>your tools, that's also wrong.  Here's some "white plastic rot":
><http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/white-plastic-rot/index.html>
>I recently bought about 50 assorted nut drivers and screwdrivers for
>very little because the owner thought the white plastic rot was
>dangerous.  It took me a few minutes with Scotch-Brite and a bench
>buffer to make them look almost like new.


I've seen that too.  I find that hot water and scrubbing with a white
scotchbrite pad takes the fungus off; no buffing needed.

Joe Gwinn
Reply by Dave Platt ●October 19, 20212021-10-19
On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 00:30:39 -0700 (PDT), skybuck2000
<skybuck2000@hotmail.com> wrote:



>So this leads me to this bacteria hypothesis that it formed gasses inside the capacitator and made this brown
>stuff bubble up.


The bubbling from within the capacitors is likely the result of
"capacitor plague", which is an electrochemical reaction that doesn't
require the activity of bacteria.  It's caused by a bad (incomplete)
electrolyte formula, which lacks stabilizers to protect the aluminum
electrodes from corrosion.  The corrosion process releases hydrogen
gas and eventually causes the caps to vent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
Reply by Jeff Liebermann ●October 19, 20212021-10-19
On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 00:30:39 -0700 (PDT), skybuck2000
<skybuck2000@hotmail.com> wrote:


>Ever heard of such a thing ?
>
>This is one of my hypotheses why there is brown stuff on top of a backup motherboard that was inside a box in a closest for many years, at least 10 years, possibly more.
>
>However it was bought second-hand, so could also be that previous owner ran it very hot, though it seems more likely that any brown stuff would be wiped off before it would be put into the bag ?
>
>So this leads me to this bacteria hypothesis that it formed gasses inside the capacitator and made this brown stuff bubble up.


The hard brown stuff on the outside of an electrolytic capacitor is
the glue used to hold it to the PCB so that it doesn't fall over
during wave soldering.

However, the electrolyte does leak:
<https://www.capacitorlab.com/visible-failures/>
  "The electrolyte discharge can also be larger 
  covering the top of the cap with a dried substance
  which can be black, orange, brown, white or a 
  similar colour."

From my experience, the stuff that leaks out the top is usually white
or yellow, while the stuff that leaks out the bottom is dark brown or
black, presumably from the electrolyte reacting with the rubber plug.

Drivel:  If you think that bacteria, mold, or fungus are attacking
your tools, that's also wrong.  Here's some "white plastic rot":
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/white-plastic-rot/index.html>
I recently bought about 50 assorted nut drivers and screwdrivers for
very little because the owner thought the white plastic rot was
dangerous.  It took me a few minutes with Scotch-Brite and a bench
buffer to make them look almost like new.

-- 
Jeff Liebermann                 jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272      http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann      AE6KS    831-336-2558
Reply by Edward Hernandez ●October 18, 20212021-10-18
The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id 
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:


> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...


And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id 
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:


> The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from 
> breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is 
> CLUELESS...


And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Tue, 19 Oct 2021 00:28:53 -0000
(UTC) in message-id <skl3g4$b5g$1@dont-email.me>.

KHsnLu6hEBAY
Reply by John Doe ●October 18, 20212021-10-18
A nym-shifting stalker, usually "Corvid" also "Charger Boy".
Was spanked hard in (sci.electronics.repair)...

see also...
=?UTF-8?Q?C=c3=b6rvid?= <bl@ckbirds.org>
=?UTF-8?B?8J+QriBDb3dzIGFyZSBOaWNlIPCfkK4=?= <nice@cows.moo>
Banders <snap@mailchute.com>
Covid-19 <always.look@message.header>
Corvid <bl@ckbirds.net>
Corvid <bl@ckbirds.org>
Cows Are Nice <cows@nice.moo>
Cows are nice <moo@cows.org>
Cows are Nice <nice@cows.moo>
dogs <dogs@home.com>
Edward H. <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
Great Pumpkin <pumpkin@patch.net>
Jose Curvo <jcurvo@mymail.com>
Local Favorite <how2recycle@palomar.info>
Peter Weiner <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
Sea <freshness@coast.org>
Standard Poodle <standard@poodle.com>
triangles <build@home.com>
and others...

-- 
Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com> wrote:


> Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.dns-netz.com!news.freedyn.net!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!peer02.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer03.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx13.ams4.POSTED!not-for-mail
> From: Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Are there bacteria inside old electrolytic capacitators ?
> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
> References: <c6c75419-7ae1-4913-91f4-b1f1a3eb432bn@googlegroups.com> <f77rmgtsb0nop1skd133ie1ssk6h65gqc5@4ax.com> <skkujd$fq7$11@dont-email.me>
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> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2021 00:25:58 GMT
> X-Received-Bytes: 1250
> Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:649669
> 
> The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id 
> <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:
> 
>> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...
> 
> And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id 
> <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:
> 
>> The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from 
>> breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is 
>> CLUELESS...
> 
> And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
> incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Mon, 18 Oct 2021 23:05:17 -0000
> (UTC) in message-id <skkujd$fq7$11@dont-email.me>.
> 
> d+jhDYS0+UBi
> 
> 
>
Reply by Edward Hernandez ●October 18, 20212021-10-18
The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id 
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:


> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...


And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id 
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:


> The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from 
> breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is 
> CLUELESS...


And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Mon, 18 Oct 2021 23:05:29 -0000
(UTC) in message-id <skkujo$fq7$12@dont-email.me>.

wlmccOPXVej6
Reply by Edward Hernandez ●October 18, 20212021-10-18
The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id 
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:


> The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...


And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id 
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:


> The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from 
> breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is 
> CLUELESS...


And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Mon, 18 Oct 2021 23:05:17 -0000
(UTC) in message-id <skkujd$fq7$11@dont-email.me>.

d+jhDYS0+UBi
Reply by John Doe ●October 18, 20212021-10-18
Only remnants of Skysuck's brain.

-- 
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:


> Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.misty.com!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!buffer2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.supernews.com!news.supernews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 11:13:34 -0500
> From: jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
> Subject: Re: Are there bacteria inside old electrolytic capacitators ?
> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2021 09:13:34 -0700
> Message-ID: <f77rmgtsb0nop1skd133ie1ssk6h65gqc5@4ax.com>
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> Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:649623
> 
> On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 00:30:39 -0700 (PDT), skybuck2000
> <skybuck2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>Ever heard of such a thing ?
>>
>>This is one of my hypotheses why there is brown stuff on top of a backup motherboard that was inside a box in a closest for many years, at least 10 years, possibly more.
>>
>>However it was bought second-hand, so could also be that previous owner ran it very hot, though it seems more likely that any brown stuff would be wiped off before it would be put into the bag ?
>>
>>So this leads me to this bacteria hypothesis that it formed gasses inside the capacitator and made this brown stuff bubble up.
>>
>>Bye for now,
>>  Skybuck.
> 
> The electrolyte is acid, not bug friendly. But it does leak,
> especially in cheap caps that are overheated.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Father Brown's figure remained quite dark and still; 
> but in that instant he had lost his head. His head was
> always most valuable when he had lost it.
> 
> 
> 
>   
> 
>