>> This is similar to the MAME mindset -- do you want to *play*
>> the game? Or, *own* the game?
>>
>> Do you want to own an IMSAI? Or, would a replica be acceptable?
>
> Flat screen LCD monitors are just so much nicer. First imitations of them
> appear in the movie 2001 when they are eating at the table. He called it
> astonishingly close to what we have now (or rather our designers implemented
> what Clarke and Kubrick had imagined back then).
Now we just need a better ebook implementation to more closely
mimic Adams' "Guide"!
> The one I always admired was Clive Sinclair's miniature portable TV with a very
> weird internal geometry. A friend won one on the very first edition of the
> Krypton Factor. Casio LCD displays won that battle!
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV80
>
> The first indications of LCD displays future supremacy for flat screen displays
> wasn't long after that launch. It never really sold though.
>
>> E.g., I've been machining a HAL9000 (I/O port) replica for use at
>> my front door. While I'd love to have the genuine article, I
>> realize that to be a silly goal (how many mockups were made?).
>
> I have seen an original at the Stanley Kubrick exhibition in London a couple of
> years back and the space station Hilton mock up. All the scale models used in
> filming were there too as were several of his incredibly exotic available light
> lenses and for his other movies.
I came up with gross measurements for mine using imagery from the movie.
It's one of those things where "exact" doesn't matter; folks either
recognize the reference, or not.
But, I'm having problems getting the same red "glow" (of course, the prop
didn't have to actually function as a camera so higher hurdle, in my case)
>> And, even a "faithful replica" is silly -- the lens used is
>> wicked expensive! And, the image processing would be unnecessarily
>> complex.
>
>> As folks coming to the door wouldn't be aware -- nor care! -- of what's
>> behind the outer facade, what value is there for the genuine article?
>
> One of my friends (an avid Dr Who fan) has a full scale Dalek in his living
> room - though now radio controlled since otherwise you need a tame midget
> inside if you want to operate it in the original fashion.
>>> I expect the CRT in the commercial device uses magnetic deflection, and
>>> looks like they shield the crap out of it.
>>>
>>> A round CRT would give an even better Cold War bunker-aesthetic
>>
>> You could repurpose the display out of an old 'scope and drive it with
>> a raster.
>
> Some old scopes could do that as a side show.
> ie. Accept a luminance input and X, Y scan ramps. Phosphor persistence made
> anything that moved have ghosts trailing behind so it was really only any good
> for a quick look see at a video signal.
Yes. As a preteen, I recall viewing SSTV on a 'scope in a family friend's
ham shack. It took a bit of imagination to appreciate the technology!
Reply by Martin Brown●September 5, 20212021-09-05
On 03/09/2021 16:24, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/3/2021 7:50 AM, bitrex wrote:
>>> So, other than as an intellectual exercise, what is your motivation for
>>> exploring such a "converter"? I.e., what got you thinking along those
>>> lines in the first place?
>>
>> <https://youtu.be/PBtETkJeqmY>
>>
>> Love to have one, but guaranteed I'd never find one.
>
> You are interested in the novelty? Or the functionality?
We used to have a 5" monitor on a slightly dodgy stand with a numeric
keypad underneath on one of our early ICP mass spectrometers. The MD was
a fan of Star Trek and it was meant to look a bit like the thing that
Spock used to stare into in the original series. It showed the mass
spectrum building up in real time as the machine scanned.
Graphics were handled by a TMS9929 video controller which had hardware
sprites. It didn't last long like that as people often knocked it over
and spilled chemicals into the keyboard. It soon ended up in the 19"
racking with just arrow keys and behind a waterproof membrane.
> This is similar to the MAME mindset -- do you want to *play*
> the game? Or, *own* the game?
>
> Do you want to own an IMSAI? Or, would a replica be acceptable?
Flat screen LCD monitors are just so much nicer. First imitations of
them appear in the movie 2001 when they are eating at the table. He
called it astonishingly close to what we have now (or rather our
designers implemented what Clarke and Kubrick had imagined back then).
The one I always admired was Clive Sinclair's miniature portable TV with
a very weird internal geometry. A friend won one on the very first
edition of the Krypton Factor. Casio LCD displays won that battle!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV80
The first indications of LCD displays future supremacy for flat screen
displays wasn't long after that launch. It never really sold though.
> E.g., I've been machining a HAL9000 (I/O port) replica for use at
> my front door. While I'd love to have the genuine article, I
> realize that to be a silly goal (how many mockups were made?).
I have seen an original at the Stanley Kubrick exhibition in London a
couple of years back and the space station Hilton mock up. All the scale
models used in filming were there too as were several of his incredibly
exotic available light lenses and for his other movies.
> And, even a "faithful replica" is silly -- the lens used is
> wicked expensive! And, the image processing would be unnecessarily
> complex.
> As folks coming to the door wouldn't be aware -- nor care! -- of what's
> behind the outer facade, what value is there for the genuine article?
One of my friends (an avid Dr Who fan) has a full scale Dalek in his
living room - though now radio controlled since otherwise you need a
tame midget inside if you want to operate it in the original fashion.
>> I expect the CRT in the commercial device uses magnetic deflection,
>> and looks like they shield the crap out of it.
>>
>> A round CRT would give an even better Cold War bunker-aesthetic
>
> You could repurpose the display out of an old 'scope and drive it with
> a raster.
Some old scopes could do that as a side show.
ie. Accept a luminance input and X, Y scan ramps. Phosphor persistence
made anything that moved have ghosts trailing behind so it was really
only any good for a quick look see at a video signal.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Reply by Don Y●September 3, 20212021-09-03
On 9/3/2021 1:52 PM, bitrex wrote:
> On 9/3/2021 2:58 PM, Don Y wrote:
>> On 9/3/2021 8:47 AM, bitrex wrote:
>>> On 9/3/2021 11:24 AM, Don Y wrote:
>>>> On 9/3/2021 7:50 AM, bitrex wrote:
>>>>>> So, other than as an intellectual exercise, what is your motivation for
>>>>>> exploring such a "converter"? I.e., what got you thinking along those
>>>>>> lines in the first place?
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://youtu.be/PBtETkJeqmY>
>>>>>
>>>>> Love to have one, but guaranteed I'd never find one.
>>>>
>>>> You are interested in the novelty? Or the functionality?
>>>>
>>>> This is similar to the MAME mindset -- do you want to *play*
>>>> the game? Or, *own* the game?
>>>>
>>>> Do you want to own an IMSAI? Or, would a replica be acceptable?
>>>
>>> Frankly (as often happens) pondering about how to do SVGA to XYZ conversion
>>> properly has become the more interesting problem to think about, lol
>>
>> Than *what*?
>>
>>>> E.g., I've been machining a HAL9000 (I/O port) replica for use at
>>>> my front door. While I'd love to have the genuine article, I
>>>> realize that to be a silly goal (how many mockups were made?).
>>>
>>> Yikes, I try not to scare people away (yea it's revealed Hal's intentions
>>> were decent all along but he had some bugs, IIRC.) Maybe I'd do SAL9000:
>>>
>>> <https://youtu.be/PBtETkJeqmY>
>>
>> I doubt anyone would be scared away if they encountered a glowing red eye
>> adjacent to the front door! Rather, those old enough to recognize it
>> would likely chuckle.
>>
>> Plus, it gives me a place to mount a camera, in lieu of a doorbell button!
>>
>> (And, if it scares away the LDSers and JW's, well... call that a bonus!)
>
> Their religions are half science-fiction anyway, how's it going to scare them
> away.
I'm not sure how much "science" is involved -- at least not "science" as WE
know it.
But, save Confucianism, aren't they all fictions?
Reply by bitrex●September 3, 20212021-09-03
On 9/3/2021 2:58 PM, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/3/2021 8:47 AM, bitrex wrote:
>> On 9/3/2021 11:24 AM, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 9/3/2021 7:50 AM, bitrex wrote:
>>>>> So, other than as an intellectual exercise, what is your motivation
>>>>> for
>>>>> exploring such a "converter"? I.e., what got you thinking along those
>>>>> lines in the first place?
>>>>
>>>> <https://youtu.be/PBtETkJeqmY>
>>>>
>>>> Love to have one, but guaranteed I'd never find one.
>>>
>>> You are interested in the novelty? Or the functionality?
>>>
>>> This is similar to the MAME mindset -- do you want to *play*
>>> the game? Or, *own* the game?
>>>
>>> Do you want to own an IMSAI? Or, would a replica be acceptable?
>>
>> Frankly (as often happens) pondering about how to do SVGA to XYZ
>> conversion properly has become the more interesting problem to think
>> about, lol
>
> Than *what*?
>
>>> E.g., I've been machining a HAL9000 (I/O port) replica for use at
>>> my front door. While I'd love to have the genuine article, I
>>> realize that to be a silly goal (how many mockups were made?).
>>
>> Yikes, I try not to scare people away (yea it's revealed Hal's
>> intentions were decent all along but he had some bugs, IIRC.) Maybe
>> I'd do SAL9000:
>>
>> <https://youtu.be/PBtETkJeqmY>
>
> I doubt anyone would be scared away if they encountered a glowing red eye
> adjacent to the front door! Rather, those old enough to recognize it
> would likely chuckle.
>
> Plus, it gives me a place to mount a camera, in lieu of a doorbell button!
>
> (And, if it scares away the LDSers and JW's, well... call that a bonus!)
Their religions are half science-fiction anyway, how's it going to scare
them away.
Reply by Don Y●September 3, 20212021-09-03
On 9/3/2021 8:47 AM, bitrex wrote:
> On 9/3/2021 11:24 AM, Don Y wrote:
>> On 9/3/2021 7:50 AM, bitrex wrote:
>>>> So, other than as an intellectual exercise, what is your motivation for
>>>> exploring such a "converter"? I.e., what got you thinking along those
>>>> lines in the first place?
>>>
>>> <https://youtu.be/PBtETkJeqmY>
>>>
>>> Love to have one, but guaranteed I'd never find one.
>>
>> You are interested in the novelty? Or the functionality?
>>
>> This is similar to the MAME mindset -- do you want to *play*
>> the game? Or, *own* the game?
>>
>> Do you want to own an IMSAI? Or, would a replica be acceptable?
>
> Frankly (as often happens) pondering about how to do SVGA to XYZ conversion
> properly has become the more interesting problem to think about, lol
Than *what*?
>> E.g., I've been machining a HAL9000 (I/O port) replica for use at
>> my front door. While I'd love to have the genuine article, I
>> realize that to be a silly goal (how many mockups were made?).
>
> Yikes, I try not to scare people away (yea it's revealed Hal's intentions were
> decent all along but he had some bugs, IIRC.) Maybe I'd do SAL9000:
>
> <https://youtu.be/PBtETkJeqmY>
I doubt anyone would be scared away if they encountered a glowing red eye
adjacent to the front door! Rather, those old enough to recognize it
would likely chuckle.
Plus, it gives me a place to mount a camera, in lieu of a doorbell button!
(And, if it scares away the LDSers and JW's, well... call that a bonus!)
Reply by Don Y●September 3, 20212021-09-03
On 9/3/2021 8:12 AM, bitrex wrote:
>> I expect the CRT in the commercial device uses magnetic deflection, and looks
>> like they shield the crap out of it.
>>
>> A round CRT would give an even better Cold War bunker-aesthetic
>
> But an attempt to homebrew-transplant something like a commercial mini-TV guts
> into an enclosure that fits the form factor seems doomed, even if you could
> find a small enough CRT TV, the PCB and electronics would be unlikely to fit.
> Sounds like a hopeless and potentially pretty hazardous operation.
>
> Anything homebrew would never be as nice as the commercial product with a
> likely custom flyback and PCB. But there are little electrostatic CRTs people
> use for scope-clocks and stuff you could run the graphics card output to.
Years ago (35?), I used a small OEM CRT in a product. No idea if it was
"small enough" for THIS application. But, I had considered installing
one in my car (at the time) as a foundation for a digital dash. When
you think about the space available, there, it's likely it *was*!
Reply by Don Y●September 3, 20212021-09-03
On 9/3/2021 7:50 AM, bitrex wrote:
>> So, other than as an intellectual exercise, what is your motivation for
>> exploring such a "converter"? I.e., what got you thinking along those
>> lines in the first place?
>
> <https://youtu.be/PBtETkJeqmY>
>
> Love to have one, but guaranteed I'd never find one.
You are interested in the novelty? Or the functionality?
This is similar to the MAME mindset -- do you want to *play*
the game? Or, *own* the game?
Do you want to own an IMSAI? Or, would a replica be acceptable?
E.g., I've been machining a HAL9000 (I/O port) replica for use at
my front door. While I'd love to have the genuine article, I
realize that to be a silly goal (how many mockups were made?).
And, even a "faithful replica" is silly -- the lens used is
wicked expensive! And, the image processing would be unnecessarily
complex.
As folks coming to the door wouldn't be aware -- nor care! -- of what's
behind the outer facade, what value is there for the genuine article?
> I expect the CRT in the commercial device uses magnetic deflection, and looks
> like they shield the crap out of it.
>
> A round CRT would give an even better Cold War bunker-aesthetic
You could repurpose the display out of an old 'scope and drive it with
a raster.
Reply by bitrex●September 3, 20212021-09-03
On 9/3/2021 10:50 AM, bitrex wrote:
> On 9/3/2021 10:41 AM, Don Y wrote:
>> On 9/2/2021 6:36 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>
>>>>> Is there any off-the-shelf IC or circuit that does this or are you
>>>>> basically looking at using a DSP or FPGA to do it properly.
>>>>
>>>> Why not change the source signal being generated? Or, are you
>>>> "stuck" with someone else's signal?
>>>
>>> Nah. Just thinking about how you would do it from the output of a
>>> video adapter on a relatively modern PC, so what do we have to work
>>> with.
>>> HDMI would that be easier? Maybe but I don't know enough to know.
>>
>> HDMI is purely digital. So, nothing like combining with a weighted
>> resistor
>> network would work.
>>
>> OTOH, you could likely directly *digitally* process the signals
>> instead of
>> first having to map the analog VGA signals into that domain (if you had
>> the processing power to handle it, there -- the data rates are very
>> high!).
>>
>> The same sort of argument can be used for DP or DVI-D.
>>
>>> Might be easier to work with composite and there are surely
>>> off-the-shelf solutions that do HDMI to composite, and then strip the
>>> syncs and luma from that.
>>>
>>> XYZ to VGA boxes seem relatively available for e.g. radars but don't
>>> see much commercial for the other way, the demand would seem very
>>> little.
>>
>> So, other than as an intellectual exercise, what is your motivation for
>> exploring such a "converter"? I.e., what got you thinking along those
>> lines in the first place?
>
> <https://youtu.be/PBtETkJeqmY>
>
> Love to have one, but guaranteed I'd never find one.
>
> I expect the CRT in the commercial device uses magnetic deflection, and
> looks like they shield the crap out of it.
>
> A round CRT would give an even better Cold War bunker-aesthetic
But an attempt to homebrew-transplant something like a commercial
mini-TV guts into an enclosure that fits the form factor seems doomed,
even if you could find a small enough CRT TV, the PCB and electronics
would be unlikely to fit. Sounds like a hopeless and potentially pretty
hazardous operation.
Anything homebrew would never be as nice as the commercial product with
a likely custom flyback and PCB. But there are little electrostatic CRTs
people use for scope-clocks and stuff you could run the graphics card
output to.
Reply by bitrex●September 3, 20212021-09-03
On 9/3/2021 10:41 AM, Don Y wrote:
> On 9/2/2021 6:36 PM, bitrex wrote:
>
>>>> Is there any off-the-shelf IC or circuit that does this or are you
>>>> basically looking at using a DSP or FPGA to do it properly.
>>>
>>> Why not change the source signal being generated? Or, are you
>>> "stuck" with someone else's signal?
>>
>> Nah. Just thinking about how you would do it from the output of a
>> video adapter on a relatively modern PC, so what do we have to work with.
>> HDMI would that be easier? Maybe but I don't know enough to know.
>
> HDMI is purely digital. So, nothing like combining with a weighted
> resistor
> network would work.
>
> OTOH, you could likely directly *digitally* process the signals instead of
> first having to map the analog VGA signals into that domain (if you had
> the processing power to handle it, there -- the data rates are very high!).
>
> The same sort of argument can be used for DP or DVI-D.
>
>> Might be easier to work with composite and there are surely
>> off-the-shelf solutions that do HDMI to composite, and then strip the
>> syncs and luma from that.
>>
>> XYZ to VGA boxes seem relatively available for e.g. radars but don't
>> see much commercial for the other way, the demand would seem very little.
>
> So, other than as an intellectual exercise, what is your motivation for
> exploring such a "converter"? I.e., what got you thinking along those
> lines in the first place?
<https://youtu.be/PBtETkJeqmY>
Love to have one, but guaranteed I'd never find one.
I expect the CRT in the commercial device uses magnetic deflection, and
looks like they shield the crap out of it.
A round CRT would give an even better Cold War bunker-aesthetic
Reply by Don Y●September 3, 20212021-09-03
On 9/2/2021 6:36 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>> Is there any off-the-shelf IC or circuit that does this or are you basically
>>> looking at using a DSP or FPGA to do it properly.
>>
>> Why not change the source signal being generated? Or, are you
>> "stuck" with someone else's signal?
>
> Nah. Just thinking about how you would do it from the output of a video adapter
> on a relatively modern PC, so what do we have to work with.
> HDMI would that be easier? Maybe but I don't know enough to know.
HDMI is purely digital. So, nothing like combining with a weighted resistor
network would work.
OTOH, you could likely directly *digitally* process the signals instead of
first having to map the analog VGA signals into that domain (if you had
the processing power to handle it, there -- the data rates are very high!).
The same sort of argument can be used for DP or DVI-D.
> Might be easier to work with composite and there are surely off-the-shelf
> solutions that do HDMI to composite, and then strip the syncs and luma from that.
>
> XYZ to VGA boxes seem relatively available for e.g. radars but don't see much
> commercial for the other way, the demand would seem very little.
So, other than as an intellectual exercise, what is your motivation for
exploring such a "converter"? I.e., what got you thinking along those
lines in the first place?