On a sunny day (Tue, 24 Aug 2021 02:43:39 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Phil
Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in
<cdd862af-ec7f-4e51-9fbe-6f383722e1f0n@googlegroups.com>:
>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>================
> >
>> >> My CRT will work, if need be in emergency drive the deflection plates directly.
>> >> Can do analog TV too:
>> >> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/scope_tv/index.html
>> >
>> >** Did that with my home brew 3", 5 tube scope when I was 18.
>> >
>> > Hooked up the H, V & Z inputs to suitable spots inside a 17" B&W tube TV set.
>> > Got a quite watchable pic of a Kim Novak movie - all in green.
>> >
>> > Lucky I did not get a serious shock in the process.
>>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>> Ha, my first scope was an old round TV CRT, high voltage came from a car ignition coil
>> driven by a 4W audio amp that had feedback so it oscillated, rectified by some TV tube on a 1.5V battery,
>
>** Wow !!! Maybe a 1S2 HT rectifier ?
>> And the signals on the deflection coil sitting on my bed (no space) in jail^H^H^H^H cell.. well close..
>> :-)
>
>** Yep - bedroom shenanigans out of sight from parents.....
Yes, crystal radio under my pillow, listen to radio plays when I should be sleeping...
>> Where there is a will there is a way my father used to say.
>
>** Or a Lawyer.
He was in the resistance in WW2, before that fought Franco in Spain with the commies.
After WW2 he was journalist, had a nice medium+short wave radio to hear what was going on in the world,
that radio made me curious about how it worked..
Holly Shiit, they are doing F35 low altitude test here, noisy piece of shit it is, wonder if one will crash into the water tower just
a few hundred meters from here ...
Reply by Phil Allison●August 24, 20212021-08-24
Jan Panteltje wrote:
================
>
> >> My CRT will work, if need be in emergency drive the deflection plates directly.
> >> Can do analog TV too:
> >> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/scope_tv/index.html
> >
> >** Did that with my home brew 3", 5 tube scope when I was 18.
> >
> > Hooked up the H, V & Z inputs to suitable spots inside a 17" B&W tube TV set.
> > Got a quite watchable pic of a Kim Novak movie - all in green.
> >
> > Lucky I did not get a serious shock in the process.
>
> Ha, my first scope was an old round TV CRT, high voltage came from a car ignition coil
> driven by a 4W audio amp that had feedback so it oscillated, rectified by some TV tube on a 1.5V battery,
** Wow !!! Maybe a 1S2 HT rectifier ?
> And the signals on the deflection coil sitting on my bed (no space) in jail^H^H^H^H cell.. well close..
> :-)
** Yep - bedroom shenanigans out of sight from parents.....
> Where there is a will there is a way my father used to say.
** Or a Lawyer.
...... Phil
Reply by Jan Panteltje●August 24, 20212021-08-24
On a sunny day (Mon, 23 Aug 2021 23:50:51 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Phil
Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in
<0d662159-b84a-4626-a129-261382366ad9n@googlegroups.com>:
>Jan Panteltje wrote:
>=================
>> >
>> >> A cheap 100 MHz 4-channel digital scope is mostly air inside.
>> >
>> >** DSOs are chock full of SMD, with a SMPS and a flat screen.
>> > Not really "scopes " at all.
>> >
>> >OTOH:
>> >
>> >My 50Mhz, dual trace is a steel box 90% full of air.
>> >Has to be deep enough to accommodate the PDA tube = 14 inches.
>> >The front panel has to fit all the controls comfortably = 10 x 7 inches.
>> >Easy to carry in one hand and uses only 14 watts of power.
>> >No need for a stupid, dust clogging fan.
>> >
>> >Purchased on the 19/9/1985.
>> >Never out of use.
>>
>> And I wonder if J.Larkin could repair his digital scopes 40 years from now,
>> especially after WW3 EPMs.
>>
> ** Was that EMPs ? Take out most semis I believe.
Yep.
>JL's collection of Chinese DSOs are for use by his paid staff - a tiny cost compared to their wages.
>They get to like it or lump it.
>
>> My CRT will work, if need be in emergency drive the deflection plates directly.
>> Can do analog TV too:
>> http://panteltje.com/panteltje/scope_tv/index.html
>
>** Did that with my home brew 3", 5 tube scope when I was 18.
>
> Hooked up the H, V & Z inputs to suitable spots inside a 17" B&W tube TV set.
> Got a quite watchable pic of a Kim Novak movie - all in green.
>
> Lucky I did not get a serious shock in the process.
Ha, my first scope was an old round TV CRT, high voltage came from a car ignition coil
driven by a 4W audio amp that had feedback so it oscillated, rectified by some TV tube on a 1.5V battery,
And the signals on the deflection coil sitting on my bed (no space) in jail^H^H^H^H cell.. well close..
:-)
Where there is a will there is a way my father used to say.
!
Reply by Phil Allison●August 24, 20212021-08-24
Jan Panteltje wrote:
=================
> >
> >> A cheap 100 MHz 4-channel digital scope is mostly air inside.
> >
> >** DSOs are chock full of SMD, with a SMPS and a flat screen.
> > Not really "scopes " at all.
> >
> >OTOH:
> >
> >My 50Mhz, dual trace is a steel box 90% full of air.
> >Has to be deep enough to accommodate the PDA tube = 14 inches.
> >The front panel has to fit all the controls comfortably = 10 x 7 inches.
> >Easy to carry in one hand and uses only 14 watts of power.
> >No need for a stupid, dust clogging fan.
> >
> >Purchased on the 19/9/1985.
> >Never out of use.
>
> And I wonder if J.Larkin could repair his digital scopes 40 years from now,
> especially after WW3 EPMs.
>
** Was that EMPs ? Take out most semis I believe.
JL's collection of Chinese DSOs are for use by his paid staff - a tiny cost compared to their wages.
They get to like it or lump it.
** Did that with my home brew 3", 5 tube scope when I was 18.
Hooked up the H, V & Z inputs to suitable spots inside a 17" B&W tube TV set.
Got a quite watchable pic of a Kim Novak movie - all in green.
Lucky I did not get a serious shock in the process.
..... Phil
Reply by Jan Panteltje●August 24, 20212021-08-24
On a sunny day (Mon, 23 Aug 2021 15:33:47 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Phil
Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote in
<bc0c1351-6666-49dd-ab0d-a3ce39758bcfn@googlegroups.com>:
> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
>====================================
>>
>> It is impressive how much stuff is inside an old analog scope.
>
>** Only true of expensive ones like Tek and HP.
>
>> A cheap 100 MHz 4-channel digital scope is mostly air inside.
>
>** DSOs are chock full of SMD, with a SMPS and a flat screen.
> Not really "scopes " at all.
>
>OTOH:
>
>My 50Mhz, dual trace is a steel box 90% full of air.
>Has to be deep enough to accommodate the PDA tube = 14 inches.
>The front panel has to fit all the controls comfortably = 10 x 7 inches.
>Easy to carry in one hand and uses only 14 watts of power.
>No need for a stupid, dust clogging fan.
>
>Purchased on the 19/9/1985.
>Never out of use.
And I wonder if J.Larkin could repair his digital scopes 40 years from now,
especially after WW3 EPMs.
No parts, no chips, no displays (at least not with a compatible driver).
My CRT will work, if need be in emergency drive the deflection plates directly.
Can do analog TV too:
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/scope_tv/index.html
Reply by Tom Gardner●August 23, 20212021-08-23
On 23/08/21 16:46, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 16:37:26 +0100, Tom Gardner
> <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 23/08/21 16:12, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>> On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 12:30:08 +1000, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/rddddzpkwqo44sc/TransformerWiring.jpg?dl=0>
>>>>
>>>> Shows how the power transformer is directly wired to two separate
>>>> boards. Not sure how, or why, they'd want to do that.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/nlzx6f0w5deomb1/SolderThroughHere.jpg?dl=0>
>>>>
>>>> Shows the hole through which the transistor has to be soldered. Note the
>>>> two resistors in plastic tubing that have one end soldered to this
>>>> board, and the other end soldered to a board at the back of the tube.
>>>> Also a wire directly soldered to the board that also goes there.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/degb7topima7yle/TransistorLeads.jpg?dl=0>
>>>>
>>>> Shows the formed leads for the transistors. Fortunately, I now have a 3D
>>>> printer and have been able to make a template for bending the leads. Not
>>>> sure whether the white stand-offs have any useful thermal properties.
>>>> They have to withstand about 170 volts.
>>>>
>>>> Another oddity is the two leads covered in yellow insulation. They are
>>>> only connected at one end, and are marked on the schematic as "wired
>>>> capacitors" across the resistors that lead to the tube X axis plates. No
>>>> doubt they do produce some capacitance, but I can't imagine it's much.
>>>> Anyone know what the purpose would be?
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> It is impressive how much stuff is inside an old analog scope. A cheap
>>> 100 MHz 4-channel digital scope is mostly air inside.
>>>
>>> Multi-channel traces never worked well in analog scopes. They shared
>>> the tube with alternate traces, or chopped.
>>
>> I acquired a dual /beam/ analogue storage scope before it
>> hit the dumpster. After replacing the usual PSU electrolytics,
>> it still works as well as analogue storage scopes ever did.
>>
>
> The giant Tek with the separate power supply?
No! It is a low-end Telequipment DM63 with 2 vertical
plug-in slots. I am still surprised that a "budget"
brand would have a dual beam storage tube.
https://w140.com/tekwiki/wiki/Telequipment_DM63
>> Dual beam is particularly useful with a dual channel storage
>> scope, since ALT mode is pretty useless at capturing fast
>> transients, and CHOP is only useful at low speeds.
>
> Analog storage never worked well. The secondary-emission tubes wore
> out. The mesh things had low writing rates. All primitive.
When digitising scopes became available, everybody heaved
a sigh of relief, tempered only by realising the slow
sampling rate.
The DM63 is 15MHz, but the writing speed isn't up to that.
The Tek tubes are works of art. I have a wall-mounted gharial
head fashioned as a small shelf. I've mirrored the gharial's
head shape with a Tek CRT that has had the ugly ceramic bit
chopped off.
Reply by Phil Allison●August 23, 20212021-08-23
John Larkin wrote:
==============
>
> >My 50Mhz, dual trace is a steel box 90% full of air.
>
> 20% is full of vacuum!
** There is some stuff in there as well ...
Plus it's no more than 10% of the volume and barely affects the weight .
.... Phil
Reply by John Larkin●August 23, 20212021-08-23
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 15:33:47 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
<pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
> jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
>====================================
>>
>> It is impressive how much stuff is inside an old analog scope.
>
>** Only true of expensive ones like Tek and HP.
>
>> A cheap 100 MHz 4-channel digital scope is mostly air inside.
>
>** DSOs are chock full of SMD, with a SMPS and a flat screen.
> Not really "scopes " at all.
>
>OTOH:
>
>My 50Mhz, dual trace is a steel box 90% full of air.
>
> It is impressive how much stuff is inside an old analog scope.
** Only true of expensive ones like Tek and HP.
> A cheap 100 MHz 4-channel digital scope is mostly air inside.
** DSOs are chock full of SMD, with a SMPS and a flat screen.
Not really "scopes " at all.
OTOH:
My 50Mhz, dual trace is a steel box 90% full of air.
Has to be deep enough to accommodate the PDA tube = 14 inches.
The front panel has to fit all the controls comfortably = 10 x 7 inches.
Easy to carry in one hand and uses only 14 watts of power.
No need for a stupid, dust clogging fan.
Purchased on the 19/9/1985.
Never out of use.
...... Phil
Reply by ●August 23, 20212021-08-23
On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 16:37:26 +0100, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>On 23/08/21 16:12, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 12:30:08 +1000, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/rddddzpkwqo44sc/TransformerWiring.jpg?dl=0>
>>>
>>> Shows how the power transformer is directly wired to two separate
>>> boards. Not sure how, or why, they'd want to do that.
>>>
>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/nlzx6f0w5deomb1/SolderThroughHere.jpg?dl=0>
>>>
>>> Shows the hole through which the transistor has to be soldered. Note the
>>> two resistors in plastic tubing that have one end soldered to this
>>> board, and the other end soldered to a board at the back of the tube.
>>> Also a wire directly soldered to the board that also goes there.
>>>
>>> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/degb7topima7yle/TransistorLeads.jpg?dl=0>
>>>
>>> Shows the formed leads for the transistors. Fortunately, I now have a 3D
>>> printer and have been able to make a template for bending the leads. Not
>>> sure whether the white stand-offs have any useful thermal properties.
>>> They have to withstand about 170 volts.
>>>
>>> Another oddity is the two leads covered in yellow insulation. They are
>>> only connected at one end, and are marked on the schematic as "wired
>>> capacitors" across the resistors that lead to the tube X axis plates. No
>>> doubt they do produce some capacitance, but I can't imagine it's much.
>>> Anyone know what the purpose would be?
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>> It is impressive how much stuff is inside an old analog scope. A cheap
>> 100 MHz 4-channel digital scope is mostly air inside.
>>
>> Multi-channel traces never worked well in analog scopes. They shared
>> the tube with alternate traces, or chopped.
>
>I acquired a dual /beam/ analogue storage scope before it
>hit the dumpster. After replacing the usual PSU electrolytics,
>it still works as well as analogue storage scopes ever did.
>
The giant Tek with the separate power supply?
>Dual beam is particularly useful with a dual channel storage
>scope, since ALT mode is pretty useless at capturing fast
>transients, and CHOP is only useful at low speeds.
Analog storage never worked well. The secondary-emission tubes wore
out. The mesh things had low writing rates. All primitive.
We have a 7104, the 1 GHz microchannel scope, but we don't use it any
more. That display shuts off about once a minute to extend tube life.
Nuisance.
It's distributed deflection, sort of like these, but ceramic so you
can't see inside:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/evoq6p2nvzyl6wo/547_crt.JPG?dl=0https://www.dropbox.com/s/r6c3zkwlqrayt53/519_CRT.JPG?dl=0
--
Father Brown's figure remained quite dark and still;
but in that instant he had lost his head. His head was
always most valuable when he had lost it.