On Sunday, September 27, 2020 at 4:32:50 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 9:43:31 AM UTC-7, dca...@krl.org wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 9:24:18 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
> > > On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 10:38:38 PM UTC+10, dca...@krl.org wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 9:24:03 PM UTC-4, Ricketty C wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 6:04:55 PM UTC-4, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, 14 September 2020 at 23:44:12 UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > > Oh, the cars can certainly be made to feed AC back into the line, but it's not so simple as putting boards in the cars.
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid
> > >
> > > > > There are numerous safety issues involved in addition to various regulatory issues. Try connecting a solar generation capability that isn't 100% hard wired. It won't be approved for you to throw the switch. not
> > >
> > > Obviously. But this is something that would help the grid, and they'd pay the car owner for the service.
> > >
> > > > > Bottom line is once EV owners realize how expensive batteries are to replace they will never consider burning them up with this sort of plan.
> > >
> > > Until they realise how much the grid is likely to pay for the use of the battery in this way.
> > >
> > > > One idea _I have not seen discussed is putting some solar cells on the car roofs. That could either extend the range of the car or reduce the amount of batteries needed.
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Solar_Challenge
> > >
> > > It goes back to 1987. Dutch teams have won it quite frequently so we heard about it from time to time when we lived in the Netherlands. It's a totally impractical form of transport, but an exceptionally good educational opportunity.
> > >
> > > Airplane wings offer more surface area.
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Impulse
> > >
> > > There seem to have been a lot of discussions that went on when Dan wasn't paying attention.
> >
> > I forgot that every thing has to be spelled out for Bill. I assume the rest of the readers of this newsgroup were able to understand what I was suggesting.
>
> Adding solar panels to a car's roof MIGHT produce 0.8 KWh per day (not much if you park in a parking garage or if buildings block the sunlight). That will get you about 2.3 mi for Tesla Model 3 at a cost of around $2,000 to $3,000 because you would have to use flexible modules. And most of the time you would not need it because you can recharge at night.
Even Flyguy can spell it out for Dan. And is stupid enough to waste the time to do it.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by Bill Sloman●September 27, 20202020-09-27
On Sunday, September 27, 2020 at 2:43:31 AM UTC+10, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
> On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 9:24:18 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 10:38:38 PM UTC+10, dca...@krl.org wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 9:24:03 PM UTC-4, Ricketty C wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 6:04:55 PM UTC-4, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, 14 September 2020 at 23:44:12 UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > > Oh, the cars can certainly be made to feed AC back into the line, but it's not so simple as putting boards in the cars.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid
> >
> > > > There are numerous safety issues involved in addition to various regulatory issues. Try connecting a solar generation capability that isn't 100% hard wired. It won't be approved for you to throw the switch. not
> >
> > Obviously. But this is something that would help the grid, and they'd pay the car owner for the service.
> >
> > > > Bottom line is once EV owners realize how expensive batteries are to replace they will never consider burning them up with this sort of plan.
> >
> > Until they realise how much the grid is likely to pay for the use of the battery in this way.
> >
> > > One idea _I have not seen discussed is putting some solar cells on the car roofs. That could either extend the range of the car or reduce the amount of batteries needed.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Solar_Challenge
> >
> > It goes back to 1987. Dutch teams have won it quite frequently so we heard about it from time to time when we lived in the Netherlands. It's a totally impractical form of transport, but an exceptionally good educational opportunity.
> >
> > Airplane wings offer more surface area.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Impulse
> >
> > There seem to have been a lot of discussions that went on when Dan wasn't paying attention.
>
> I forgot that every thing has to be spelled out for Bill. I assume the rest of the readers of this newsgroup were able to understand what I was suggesting.
Sure. Dan was suggesting that he doesn't have much grasp of reality. Nothing new there.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by ke.....@kjwdesigns.com●September 26, 20202020-09-26
On Saturday, 26 September 2020 at 13:15:41 UTC-7, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
...
> I was thinking a lot more power. Say 2 kw peak power and parked at work for 8.5 hours. So maybe 8 kwh. or 10 times your estimate. So maybe a $600 a year Not really worth while at this time. Maybe reasonable ten years from now.
2kW peak might need ~140 sq feet of panels. That's much more than the available space on a car. Add in the loss due to unfavourable aspect most of the time or shading due to clouds etc and you will need even more area.
The weight of the panels and the compromises to aerodynamics may reduce efficiency to the point that they are a net loss.
>
> Why do you say it would have to be flexible panels?
Most cars are not comprised of flat surfaces.
kw
Reply by dcas...@krl.org●September 26, 20202020-09-26
On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 2:32:50 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
> On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 9:43:31 AM UTC-7, dca...@krl.org wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 9:24:18 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
> > > On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 10:38:38 PM UTC+10, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 9:24:03 PM UTC-4, Ricketty C wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 6:04:55 PM UTC-4, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, 14 September 2020 at 23:44:12 UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > > Oh, the cars can certainly be made to feed AC back into the line, but it's not so simple as putting boards in the cars.
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid
> > >
> > > > > There are numerous safety issues involved in addition to various regulatory issues. Try connecting a solar generation capability that isn't 100% hard wired. It won't be approved for you to throw the switch. not
> > >
> > > Obviously. But this is something that would help the grid, and they'd pay the car owner for the service.
> > >
> > > > > Bottom line is once EV owners realize how expensive batteries are to replace they will never consider burning them up with this sort of plan.
> > >
> > > Until they realise how much the grid is likely to pay for the use of the battery in this way.
> > >
> > > > One idea _I have not seen discussed is putting some solar cells on the car roofs. That could either extend the range of the car or reduce the amount of batteries needed.
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Solar_Challenge
> > >
> > > It goes back to 1987. Dutch teams have won it quite frequently so we heard about it from time to time when we lived in the Netherlands. It's a totally impractical form of transport, but an exceptionally good educational opportunity.
> > >
> > > Airplane wings offer more surface area.
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Impulse
> > >
> > > There seem to have been a lot of discussions that went on when Dan wasn't paying attention.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bill Sloman, Sydney
> >
> > I forgot that every thing has to be spelled out for Bill. I assume the rest of the readers of this newsgroup were able to understand what I was suggesting.
> >
> > Dan
>
> Forget about SL0W MAN understanding anything - he already has the solution looking for a problem.
>
> Adding solar panels to a car's roof MIGHT produce 0.8 KWh per day (not much if you park in a parking garage or if buildings block the sunlight). That will get you about 2.3 mi for Tesla Model 3 at a cost of around $2,000 to $3,000 because you would have to use flexible modules. And most of the time you would not need it because you can recharge at night.
Hmm.
I was thinking a lot more power. Say 2 kw peak power and parked at work for 8.5 hours. So maybe 8 kwh. or 10 times your estimate. So maybe a $600 a year Not really worth while at this time. Maybe reasonable ten years from now.
Why do you say it would have to be flexible panels?
Dan
Reply by Flyguy●September 26, 20202020-09-26
On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 9:43:31 AM UTC-7, dca...@krl.org wrote:
> On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 9:24:18 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 10:38:38 PM UTC+10, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 9:24:03 PM UTC-4, Ricketty C wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 6:04:55 PM UTC-4, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, 14 September 2020 at 23:44:12 UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > > Oh, the cars can certainly be made to feed AC back into the line, but it's not so simple as putting boards in the cars.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid
> >
> > > > There are numerous safety issues involved in addition to various regulatory issues. Try connecting a solar generation capability that isn't 100% hard wired. It won't be approved for you to throw the switch. not
> >
> > Obviously. But this is something that would help the grid, and they'd pay the car owner for the service.
> >
> > > > Bottom line is once EV owners realize how expensive batteries are to replace they will never consider burning them up with this sort of plan.
> >
> > Until they realise how much the grid is likely to pay for the use of the battery in this way.
> >
> > > One idea _I have not seen discussed is putting some solar cells on the car roofs. That could either extend the range of the car or reduce the amount of batteries needed.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Solar_Challenge
> >
> > It goes back to 1987. Dutch teams have won it quite frequently so we heard about it from time to time when we lived in the Netherlands. It's a totally impractical form of transport, but an exceptionally good educational opportunity.
> >
> > Airplane wings offer more surface area.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Impulse
> >
> > There seem to have been a lot of discussions that went on when Dan wasn't paying attention.
> >
> > --
> > Bill Sloman, Sydney
>
> I forgot that every thing has to be spelled out for Bill. I assume the rest of the readers of this newsgroup were able to understand what I was suggesting.
>
> Dan
Forget about SL0W MAN understanding anything - he already has the solution looking for a problem.
Adding solar panels to a car's roof MIGHT produce 0.8 KWh per day (not much if you park in a parking garage or if buildings block the sunlight). That will get you about 2.3 mi for Tesla Model 3 at a cost of around $2,000 to $3,000 because you would have to use flexible modules. And most of the time you would not need it because you can recharge at night.
Reply by Flyguy●September 26, 20202020-09-26
On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 7:24:40 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
> On Friday, September 25, 2020 at 8:31:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 9:21:02 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 11:24:03 AM UTC+10, Ricketty C wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 6:04:55 PM UTC-4, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, 14 September 2020 at 23:44:12 UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > Bottom line is once EV owners realize how expensive batteries are to replace they will never consider burning them up with this sort of plan.
> > >
> > > Bottom line is that once the power system decides that it is sensible to use the batteries in parked electric cars for grid storage, the batteries will become much cheaper to replace - the car manufacturers may want to price them as single-sourced spare parts, but they won't be able to get away with it.
> >
> > Do that and you will just wear out your expensive battery pack quicker and the EV manufacturers will revoke your 100,000-mile warranty.
>
> The deal is that you get paid for the wear on the battery pack. There are all sort of thing that the electric vehicle manufacturers might try to do to rip off their customers, but if society as a whole sees the sense in using the batteries in parked electric cars for grid storage - once most cars are electric the parked cars could deliver something like four or five times the peak output from the grid for some hours - the electric vehicle manufacturers aren't going to have that option.
>
> We know you are too stupid to work out how this would work, so don't bother telling us that this doesn't make sense to you. Few things do.
>
> --
> SL0W MAN, Sydney
Hey SL0W MAN,
There you go AGAIN - repeating the insult "stupid" (at least you spelled it right this time!), a sure sign of a TROLL.
Who the hell is going to "pay" for it? You socialists just don't understand that the only one who can pay is the CONSUMER, one way or another. The bottom line is that battery storage of energy is VERY EXPENSIVE - nat gas is MUCH CHEAPER.
Reply by dcas...@krl.org●September 26, 20202020-09-26
On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 9:24:18 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
> On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 10:38:38 PM UTC+10, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 9:24:03 PM UTC-4, Ricketty C wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 6:04:55 PM UTC-4, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
> > > > On Monday, 14 September 2020 at 23:44:12 UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > > Oh, the cars can certainly be made to feed AC back into the line, but it's not so simple as putting boards in the cars.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle-to-grid
>
> > > There are numerous safety issues involved in addition to various regulatory issues. Try connecting a solar generation capability that isn't 100% hard wired. It won't be approved for you to throw the switch. not
>
> Obviously. But this is something that would help the grid, and they'd pay the car owner for the service.
>
> > > Bottom line is once EV owners realize how expensive batteries are to replace they will never consider burning them up with this sort of plan.
>
> Until they realise how much the grid is likely to pay for the use of the battery in this way.
>
> > One idea _I have not seen discussed is putting some solar cells on the car roofs. That could either extend the range of the car or reduce the amount of batteries needed.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Solar_Challenge
>
> It goes back to 1987. Dutch teams have won it quite frequently so we heard about it from time to time when we lived in the Netherlands. It's a totally impractical form of transport, but an exceptionally good educational opportunity.
>
> Airplane wings offer more surface area.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Impulse
>
> There seem to have been a lot of discussions that went on when Dan wasn't paying attention.
>
> --
> Bill Sloman, Sydney
I forgot that every thing has to be spelled out for Bill. I assume the rest of the readers of this newsgroup were able to understand what I was suggesting.
Dan
Reply by Bill Sloman●September 26, 20202020-09-26
On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 10:38:38 PM UTC+10, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 9:24:03 PM UTC-4, Ricketty C wrote:
> > On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 6:04:55 PM UTC-4, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
> > > On Monday, 14 September 2020 at 23:44:12 UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote:
<snip>
> > Oh, the cars can certainly be made to feed AC back into the line, but it's not so simple as putting boards in the cars.
> > There are numerous safety issues involved in addition to various regulatory issues. Try connecting a solar generation capability that isn't 100% hard wired. It won't be approved for you to throw the switch. not
Obviously. But this is something that would help the grid, and they'd pay the car owner for the service.
> > Bottom line is once EV owners realize how expensive batteries are to replace they will never consider burning them up with this sort of plan.
Until they realise how much the grid is likely to pay for the use of the battery in this way.
> One idea _I have not seen discussed is putting some solar cells on the car roofs. That could either extend the range of the car or reduce the amount of batteries needed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Solar_Challenge
It goes back to 1987. Dutch teams have won it quite frequently so we heard about it from time to time when we lived in the Netherlands. It's a totally impractical form of transport, but an exceptionally good educational opportunity.
Airplane wings offer more surface area.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Impulse
There seem to have been a lot of discussions that went on when Dan wasn't paying attention.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
Reply by dcas...@krl.org●September 26, 20202020-09-26
On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 9:24:03 PM UTC-4, Ricketty C wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 6:04:55 PM UTC-4, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
> > On Monday, 14 September 2020 at 23:44:12 UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote:
> > ...
> > > > Trickle charging a car battery over six to eight hours isn't going to be a problem. The power grid has dealt with people building more houses, and putting in electric powered devices - most recently air conditioners - for it's whole existence. They will be able to cope.
> > > "Trickle" charging won't accomplish much in 6 hours. Charging an EV at a useful rate takes as much CONTINUOUS power as the heat coils in my furnace which only runs sporadically on the coldest winter nights. That's the point. One night the four homes on a common transformer may not charge at all. Another night they may all four be charging eight cars. This may not happen often, but the system has to be able to supply those extra kW compared to the loads they used to supply. In some neighborhoods this will require upgrades of the local distribution. Otherwise no other part of the grid will be remotely stressed.
> >
> > You are assuming that there is no demand-side management - yes ideally the supply would be able to the worst case. But provided that the cars are charged by some reasonable time in the morning they don't need to all charge at the full rate.
>
> I'm not assuming anything. There is no supply side management. Anything can be done in a perfect future, but it is a long road with many hurdles to get something agreed on that is effective and takes into account all party's interest. This is exactly what I would propose rather than have the electric companies go to the oversight boards and impose a universal fee for expanding the local distribution and I have talked about this here. I just don't think it will happen without lots of vocal users. The power companies have a vested interest in adding all manner of capital if it can be done at other's expense.
>
> Dominion Power did massive amounts of work to get a license for building nuclear generators in Virginia and got the legislature to allow them to bill the consumers for the half billion it cost. They may or may not ever build the plants. So why did "we" get the bill?
>
> Being charged by "some reasonable time" doesn't cut it. Batteries are most effective when at operating temperature. EV owners charge their cars so they finish and are still warm when they are ready to leave on cold mornings. This is at odds with minimizing overlap of charging and heating.
>
>
> > The hardware is already present in many residential chargers and with some agreement on protocols can be centrally controlled.
> > Suitable compensation in the form of reduced tariffs can encourage the customer to use the capability and have very little inconvenience.
>
> I do that now, but it isn't panning out really. The electricity my car uses is not so much of my total bill. There's also the fact that the billing is set for the generating peaks which is not the same as the residential distribution peaks.
>
>
> > The power companies already do it for A/C loads in some parts of the US and do more in other countries. Our local company PG&E just adds a small controller into the heating controller in return for a lower rate.
>
> Yeah, that can't really work for heating. Every heating unit cycles on and off independently so are already scattered across time. The only thing they can do that would be effective is to cut back on your overall heating energy usage during the cold spells which means your home is not warm. They tried that in Maryland and then gave it up. I'm sure the consumers paid the bill for that too, just not up front. They have a special "fee" in Maryland for those sorts of programs. I got freebies a couple of times from them.
>
> Oh, the cars can certainly be made to feed AC back into the line, but it's not so simple as putting boards in the cars. There are numerous safety issues involved in addition to various regulatory issues. Try connecting a solar generation capability that isn't 100% hard wired. It won't be appnotroved for you to throw the switch. not
>
> Bottom line is once EV owners realize how expensive batteries are to replace they will never consider burning them up with this sort of plan.
>
> --
>
> Rick C.
>
> ---- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
> ---- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
One idea _I have not seen discussed is putting some solar cells on the car roofs. That could either extend the range of the car or reduce the amount of batteries needed.
Dan
Reply by Bill Sloman●September 25, 20202020-09-25
On Saturday, September 26, 2020 at 1:56:39 AM UTC+10, Ricketty C wrote:
> On Thursday, September 24, 2020 at 6:42:50 PM UTC-4, Chris wrote:
> > On 09/24/20 23:31, Flyguy wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 9:21:02 PM UTC-7, Bill Sloman wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 11:24:03 AM UTC+10, Ricketty C wrote:
> > >>> On Tuesday, September 15, 2020 at 6:04:55 PM UTC-4, ke...@kjwdesigns.com wrote:
> > >>>> On Monday, 14 September 2020 at 23:44:12 UTC-7, Ricketty C wrote:
> > >>
> > >> <snip>
> > >>
> > >>> Bottom line is once EV owners realize how expensive batteries are to replace they will never consider burning them up with this sort of plan.
> > >>
> > >> Bottom line is that once the power system decides that it is sensible to use the batteries in parked electric cars for grid storage, the batteries will become much cheaper to replace - the car manufacturers may want to price them as single-sourced spare parts, but they won't be able to get away with it.
>
> Lol! As if anyone can force a company to not optimize there profits on selling a product.
If they "optimise their profits" by committing fraud, there are legal penalties.
> Are we going to have price controls? Batteries will remain a proprietary product with no qualification of third party batteries for some years.
Making a battery a proprietary product purely because it lets the car company price them extravagantly is exactly the kind of abuse that consumer protection legislation goes after.
> The problem is there is no market pressure to have a third party battery industry.
Not yet - it isn't a particularly large market, though it does seem to be expanding rapidly.
> Just the opposite, there is significant pressure to offer a "better" battery tuned to the car and vice versa.
And exactly how is a battery "tuned" to a particular car? At the moments car batteries are just stacks of identical small cells, and Telsa shipped of a bunch of them to South Australia to set up at 128MW grid-storage battery - a very different application.
>It will be decades (if then) before there is a market force for third party batteries because they presently last so long few will ever need to replace them. It's hard to create a market force from something that seldom happens.
But using them for grid storage while the car is parked will kill them off ever so much faster.
> > To make that possible we need common standards for battery packs and
> > removable, so can be exchanged for added mileage. As for grid storage,
> > life could be seriously impacted by the excessive discharge / charge
> > cycling....
>
> The battery replacement thing will never fly for one very good reason. They are so damned expensive. Are you going to buy a brand new car and swap your 100% capacity battery for some piece of crap, been through the ringer dross with only 70% the capacity just to save 20 minutes charging time on a trip??? Then there are the humongous logistics of operating such a battery swap facility.
Rick's crystal ball is very specific about the problems with this approach. Battery capacity is measurable - you put in extra charge and see how much the output voltage rises. You have to pay attention to temperature changes in battery pack while you are doing this - but Rick's crystal ball doesn't seem to have noticed that you could do it very quickly.
> The trip issue will be resolved by slightly longer ranges. My X has a 230 mile real range (90% down to 10%) which will be reduced by the locations of trip chargers. Get that "real" range up to 320 miles and you have a car that can run 4 hours without charging and you will want to take a meal break anyway. Two of those are a day for most people and the car can charge over night.
>
> Tesla model S has qualified a version with nearly 400 mile range so the cars are there. It's now a matter of dropping the price and size/weight a bit more to make EVs every bit as useful as ICE on trips and affordable.
>
> The battery performance is within 20% of being there and the cost needs to drop by 33%. I expect they will be there in 5 years.
>
> Meanwhile EVs are great for every day cars taking the kids to school and grocery shopping as long as you can charge at home. If you live in an apartment or condo where they don't have charging facilities to plug in over night, you have to actually think about charging. Then it becomes like an ICE having to stop for gas.
Of course as electric cars become more popular, apartments and condominiums will get electric charging points in their parking spaces - they won't be Tesla style fast chargers, but quite fast enough to recharge a battery in a few hours. Apartments do have a connection to the grid, and it won't cost much to add charging points that will be able to recognise which car is getting charged and add the cost to their rent (and not charge any car that hasn't been linked to a resident).
> > > Do that and you will just wear out your expensive battery pack quicker and the EV manufacturers will revoke your 100,000-mile warranty.
Only if they are allowed to. If renting out the battery for grid storage becomes popular, the warranty will probably be written in terms of charging hours rather than miles travelled.
> Yeah, 100,000 mile warranties will need to do a lot better if EVs are going to become mainstream.
Probably not. It's cheaper to buy the energy you need to drive around as electricity, rather than gasoline - mainly because the electricity generation route wastes less of it.
Once the production of electric vehicles ramps up to the point where the manufacturing economies of scale are comparable with those for internal combustion engine cars, that advantage will make them mainstream very rapidly. Market penetration is already rising rapidly - Rick C is an early adopter, but I suspect that our next car is going to be electric.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney