Reply by John Miles, KE5FX●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 8:34:19 PM UTC-7, boB wrote:
> ST's HAL system is hideous for sure.
What's hideous about it? STM32 in particular is complicated enough
that most people will not find it economical to roll their own HAL.
> I use the HAL only for initialization from their CubeMX tool then it's
> non-HAL the rest of the way.
What's an example of something that would hose you if you used the
HAL API?
-- john, KE5FX
Reply by John Larkin●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On Thu, 13 Aug 2020 07:49:55 +1000, Clifford Heath
<no.spam@please.net> wrote:
>On 13/8/20 12:56 am, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 05:41:25 -0700 (PDT), blocher@columbus.rr.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, August 10, 2020 at 8:56:49 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:51:19 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
>>>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 23.35.19 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:00:29 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
>>>>>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 22.08.33 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
>>>>>>>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 21.31.59 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
>>>>>>>>>> Who is good for really quick-turn double-sided PC boards? 2 or 3 days
>>>>>>>>>> delivered.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/t30ggxa5q3z34z5/Cap_Hack.jpg?raw=1
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> your tormach ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's an option. The circuit is pretty simple!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> yeh, looks like a few holes and an outline, wouldn't take more than a few minutes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We'll do a PCB, with proper plated holes, silk, solder mask, all that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The layout is done!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My contract layout guy suggests sierra circuits or rushpcb or
>>>>>> sunstone. We'll get quotes for 30 or so.
>>>>>
>>>>> if you want to nitpick, you should move one of the wires to the other end
>>>>> of the board so all the caps have the same trace length and share current
>>>>
>>>> One of my guys started on a PCB layout and another headed for the
>>>> Tormach.
>>>>
>>>> Tormach won.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/95qvpqledr9tkuw/P902_Cap_Fix_1.jpg?raw=1
>>>>
>>>> He doesn't mind doing 25 this way.
>>>
>>> On the main board I would solder the wires to C36 and then run the wires on the board to C35 and RTV them down in between C35 & C36
>>
>> Or maybe strip the wire long and solder to all the caps. That wire is
>> #16 but could be 18 or 20.
>>
>> But what he did would work OK. We don't expect vibration.
>
>It's probably radiating more than it needs to. Just one full twist in
>the wires would shrink that.
At 400 Hz in a metal box, radiation is not a concern.
Actually, the load is a chopping shunt regulator that runs around 30
KHz. That's going to scream.
Reply by Clifford Heath●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On 13/8/20 12:56 am, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 05:41:25 -0700 (PDT), blocher@columbus.rr.com
> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, August 10, 2020 at 8:56:49 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:51:19 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
>>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 23.35.19 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
>>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:00:29 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
>>>>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 22.08.33 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
>>>>>>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 21.31.59 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
>>>>>>>>> Who is good for really quick-turn double-sided PC boards? 2 or 3 days
>>>>>>>>> delivered.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/t30ggxa5q3z34z5/Cap_Hack.jpg?raw=1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> your tormach ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's an option. The circuit is pretty simple!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> yeh, looks like a few holes and an outline, wouldn't take more than a few minutes
>>>>>
>>>>> We'll do a PCB, with proper plated holes, silk, solder mask, all that.
>>>>>
>>>>> The layout is done!
>>>>>
>>>>> My contract layout guy suggests sierra circuits or rushpcb or
>>>>> sunstone. We'll get quotes for 30 or so.
>>>>
>>>> if you want to nitpick, you should move one of the wires to the other end
>>>> of the board so all the caps have the same trace length and share current
>>>
>>> One of my guys started on a PCB layout and another headed for the
>>> Tormach.
>>>
>>> Tormach won.
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/95qvpqledr9tkuw/P902_Cap_Fix_1.jpg?raw=1
>>>
>>> He doesn't mind doing 25 this way.
>>
>> On the main board I would solder the wires to C36 and then run the wires on the board to C35 and RTV them down in between C35 & C36
>
> Or maybe strip the wire long and solder to all the caps. That wire is
> #16 but could be 18 or 20.
>
> But what he did would work OK. We don't expect vibration.
It's probably radiating more than it needs to. Just one full twist in
the wires would shrink that.
Reply by Tauno Voipio●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On 12.8.20 6.34, boB wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 14:49:59 -0400, Phil Hobbs
> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2020-08-11 12:38, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This is our first use of an ST Arm, which we are using now that the
>>> NXP parts seem to be going EOL. I hate when people do that, dump on
>>> their customers.
>>
>> Which ones are going away? We use a lot of LPC845s and LPC804s, and are
>> looking at using one of the NXP M4F/M0+ parts.
>>
>> The ST factory headers are hideous. What toolchain are you folks using
>> with the ST parts?
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Phil Hobbs
>
>
> ST's HAL system is hideous for sure.
>
> Their regular old .h file for registers is OK.
>
> I use the HAL only for initialization from their CubeMX tool then it's
> non-HAL the rest of the way.
>
Another vote for this.
The pin mapping is so irregular that a computer tool
is a great help.
--
-TV
Reply by ●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 05:41:25 -0700 (PDT), blocher@columbus.rr.com
wrote:
>On Monday, August 10, 2020 at 8:56:49 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:51:19 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>>
>> >mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 23.35.19 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
>> >> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:00:29 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
>> >> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 22.08.33 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
>> >> >> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
>> >> >> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 21.31.59 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
>> >> >> >> Who is good for really quick-turn double-sided PC boards? 2 or 3 days
>> >> >> >> delivered.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/t30ggxa5q3z34z5/Cap_Hack.jpg?raw=1
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >your tormach ?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> That's an option. The circuit is pretty simple!
>> >> >
>> >> >yeh, looks like a few holes and an outline, wouldn't take more than a few minutes
>> >>
>> >> We'll do a PCB, with proper plated holes, silk, solder mask, all that.
>> >>
>> >> The layout is done!
>> >>
>> >> My contract layout guy suggests sierra circuits or rushpcb or
>> >> sunstone. We'll get quotes for 30 or so.
>> >
>> >if you want to nitpick, you should move one of the wires to the other end
>> >of the board so all the caps have the same trace length and share current
>>
>> One of my guys started on a PCB layout and another headed for the
>> Tormach.
>>
>> Tormach won.
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/95qvpqledr9tkuw/P902_Cap_Fix_1.jpg?raw=1
>>
>> He doesn't mind doing 25 this way.
>
>On the main board I would solder the wires to C36 and then run the wires on the board to C35 and RTV them down in between C35 & C36
Or maybe strip the wire long and solder to all the caps. That wire is
#16 but could be 18 or 20.
But what he did would work OK. We don't expect vibration.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
Science teaches us to doubt.
Claude Bernard
Reply by ●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 07:35:23 -0500, John S <Sophi.2@invalid.org>
wrote:
>On 8/10/2020 7:56 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:51:19 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>>
>>> mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 23.35.19 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:00:29 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
>>>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 22.08.33 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
>>>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
>>>>>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 21.31.59 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
>>>>>>>> Who is good for really quick-turn double-sided PC boards? 2 or 3 days
>>>>>>>> delivered.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/t30ggxa5q3z34z5/Cap_Hack.jpg?raw=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> your tormach ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's an option. The circuit is pretty simple!
>>>>>
>>>>> yeh, looks like a few holes and an outline, wouldn't take more than a few minutes
>>>>
>>>> We'll do a PCB, with proper plated holes, silk, solder mask, all that.
>>>>
>>>> The layout is done!
>>>>
>>>> My contract layout guy suggests sierra circuits or rushpcb or
>>>> sunstone. We'll get quotes for 30 or so.
>>>
>>> if you want to nitpick, you should move one of the wires to the other end
>>> of the board so all the caps have the same trace length and share current
>>
>> One of my guys started on a PCB layout and another headed for the
>> Tormach.
>>
>> Tormach won.
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/95qvpqledr9tkuw/P902_Cap_Fix_1.jpg?raw=1
>>
>> He doesn't mind doing 25 this way.
>
>
>C32... Oops!
That got inspected by the VOA machine, with a manual followup. It's
connected.
So far, every one of these 250-watt class-D amps has worked when we
powered them up.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
Science teaches us to doubt.
Claude Bernard
Reply by ●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On Monday, August 10, 2020 at 8:56:49 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:51:19 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>
> >mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 23.35.19 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
> >> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:00:29 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
> >> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
> >>
> >> >mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 22.08.33 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
> >> >> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
> >> >> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 21.31.59 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
> >> >> >> Who is good for really quick-turn double-sided PC boards? 2 or 3 days
> >> >> >> delivered.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/t30ggxa5q3z34z5/Cap_Hack.jpg?raw=1
> >> >> >
> >> >> >your tormach ?
> >> >>
> >> >> That's an option. The circuit is pretty simple!
> >> >
> >> >yeh, looks like a few holes and an outline, wouldn't take more than a few minutes
> >>
> >> We'll do a PCB, with proper plated holes, silk, solder mask, all that.
> >>
> >> The layout is done!
> >>
> >> My contract layout guy suggests sierra circuits or rushpcb or
> >> sunstone. We'll get quotes for 30 or so.
> >
> >if you want to nitpick, you should move one of the wires to the other end
> >of the board so all the caps have the same trace length and share current
>
> One of my guys started on a PCB layout and another headed for the
> Tormach.
>
> Tormach won.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/95qvpqledr9tkuw/P902_Cap_Fix_1.jpg?raw=1
>
> He doesn't mind doing 25 this way.
On the main board I would solder the wires to C36 and then run the wires on the board to C35 and RTV them down in between C35 & C36
Reply by John S●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On 8/10/2020 7:56 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:51:19 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>
>> mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 23.35.19 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 14:00:29 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
>>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 22.08.33 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
>>>>> On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:49:05 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
>>>>> <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> mandag den 10. august 2020 kl. 21.31.59 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
>>>>>>> Who is good for really quick-turn double-sided PC boards? 2 or 3 days
>>>>>>> delivered.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/t30ggxa5q3z34z5/Cap_Hack.jpg?raw=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> your tormach ?
>>>>>
>>>>> That's an option. The circuit is pretty simple!
>>>>
>>>> yeh, looks like a few holes and an outline, wouldn't take more than a few minutes
>>>
>>> We'll do a PCB, with proper plated holes, silk, solder mask, all that.
>>>
>>> The layout is done!
>>>
>>> My contract layout guy suggests sierra circuits or rushpcb or
>>> sunstone. We'll get quotes for 30 or so.
>>
>> if you want to nitpick, you should move one of the wires to the other end
>> of the board so all the caps have the same trace length and share current
>
> One of my guys started on a PCB layout and another headed for the
> Tormach.
>
> Tormach won.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/95qvpqledr9tkuw/P902_Cap_Fix_1.jpg?raw=1
>
> He doesn't mind doing 25 this way.
C32... Oops!
Reply by boB●August 12, 20202020-08-12
On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 14:49:59 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>On 2020-08-11 12:38, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>
>>
>> This is our first use of an ST Arm, which we are using now that the
>> NXP parts seem to be going EOL. I hate when people do that, dump on
>> their customers.
>
>Which ones are going away? We use a lot of LPC845s and LPC804s, and are
>looking at using one of the NXP M4F/M0+ parts.
>
>The ST factory headers are hideous. What toolchain are you folks using
>with the ST parts?
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs
ST's HAL system is hideous for sure.
Their regular old .h file for registers is OK.
I use the HAL only for initialization from their CubeMX tool then it's
non-HAL the rest of the way.
Reply by Phil Hobbs●August 11, 20202020-08-11
On 2020-08-11 17:10, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
> tirsdag den 11. august 2020 kl. 22.40.25 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
>> On 2020-08-11 16:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
>>> tirsdag den 11. august 2020 kl. 22.19.33 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
>>>> On 2020-08-11 15:44, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 14:49:59 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2020-08-11 12:38, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is our first use of an ST Arm, which we are using now that the
>>>>>>> NXP parts seem to be going EOL. I hate when people do that, dump on
>>>>>>> their customers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which ones are going away? We use a lot of LPC845s and LPC804s, and are
>>>>>> looking at using one of the NXP M4F/M0+ parts.
>>>>>
>>>>> LPC3250, and I think some of the 1768 series.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, good info.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The ST factory headers are hideous. What toolchain are you folks using
>>>>>> with the ST parts?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll ask Paul the next time he's in. He has said some baddish stuff
>>>>> about their libraries. But first time on a new CPU, things happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> He wrote a boot loader that we jtag into the STM32F207IGT6. We might
>>>>> eventually have a distributor do that. At powerup, the boot reads a
>>>>> plug-in serial flash chip that has the specific runtime code and the
>>>>> FPGA image.
>>>>
>>>> We do something similar--Simon wrote a bootloader that can flash the 845
>>>> over half-duplex MODBUS, which is pretty slick. The stock BL can do it
>>>> over full-duplex UART, SPI, or SWD. We're using it in the sensors in my
>>>> "connectors for high vibration" thread.
>>>
>>> The STM build in bootloader can flash from UART/USB/I2C/SPI/CAN
>>>
>>>
>> In half-duplex? That's the parlour trick.
>>
>
> nope, but more interfaces, but I'd guess the nxp can do those too
>
Probably so.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.nethttp://hobbs-eo.com