Reply by Lasse Langwadt Christensen●December 2, 20192019-12-02
mandag den 2. december 2019 kl. 23.47.06 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
> On 2 Dec 2019 13:53:44 -0800, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >John Larkin wrote...
> >>
> >> On 2 Dec 2019, Winfield Hill wrote:
> >>
> >>> John Larkin wrote...
> >>>>
> >>>> There can be huge variations between different manufacturers
> >>>> of a given part number. I've seen same-numbered power
> >>>> transistors from different sources with a 4:1 chip area
> >>>> difference. The small ones were fast and fragile.
> >>>
> >>> That's too often true. According to Octopart, only
> >>> IRF (now Infineon) makes the IRFZ44 family of parts.
> >>
> >> In the US at least, you can't copyright a part number.
> >> Anybody can sell an LM317.
> >
> > Right. And there are many manufacturers.
> >
> > I checked IRFZ44 on LCSC, all they offered was from IRF.
> > But they offered LM317 from 11 different manufacturers,
> > or from 9, if I restricted it to a TO-220 package. The
> > lowest price was 6.8 cents, qty 100, compared to 25 cents
> > for the cheapest "standard" part from a U.S. distributor.
> > Their lowest price for an Infineon IRFZ44N was 21 cents,
> > about 3x below any of the U.S. distributors.
> >
>
> What is weird is that I can buy a board from China, with say an FPGA
> or a uP, with other parts, like a DRAM and connectors, qty 1, shipped,
> for less than I can buy just the main part here.
>
> Are they getting better pricing than we are? Are these people
> piggy-backing on some giant OEM orders?
look at some of the prices on LCSC, and afaiu the prices are lower on the Chinese version of LCSC
Reply by John Larkin●December 2, 20192019-12-02
On 2 Dec 2019 13:53:44 -0800, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>John Larkin wrote...
>>
>> On 2 Dec 2019, Winfield Hill wrote:
>>
>>> John Larkin wrote...
>>>>
>>>> There can be huge variations between different manufacturers
>>>> of a given part number. I've seen same-numbered power
>>>> transistors from different sources with a 4:1 chip area
>>>> difference. The small ones were fast and fragile.
>>>
>>> That's too often true. According to Octopart, only
>>> IRF (now Infineon) makes the IRFZ44 family of parts.
>>
>> In the US at least, you can't copyright a part number.
>> Anybody can sell an LM317.
>
> Right. And there are many manufacturers.
>
> I checked IRFZ44 on LCSC, all they offered was from IRF.
> But they offered LM317 from 11 different manufacturers,
> or from 9, if I restricted it to a TO-220 package. The
> lowest price was 6.8 cents, qty 100, compared to 25 cents
> for the cheapest "standard" part from a U.S. distributor.
> Their lowest price for an Infineon IRFZ44N was 21 cents,
> about 3x below any of the U.S. distributors.
>
What is weird is that I can buy a board from China, with say an FPGA
or a uP, with other parts, like a DRAM and connectors, qty 1, shipped,
for less than I can buy just the main part here.
Are they getting better pricing than we are? Are these people
piggy-backing on some giant OEM orders?
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply by Winfield Hill●December 2, 20192019-12-02
John Larkin wrote...
>
> On 2 Dec 2019, Winfield Hill wrote:
>
>> John Larkin wrote...
>>>
>>> There can be huge variations between different manufacturers
>>> of a given part number. I've seen same-numbered power
>>> transistors from different sources with a 4:1 chip area
>>> difference. The small ones were fast and fragile.
>>
>> That's too often true. According to Octopart, only
>> IRF (now Infineon) makes the IRFZ44 family of parts.
>
> In the US at least, you can't copyright a part number.
> Anybody can sell an LM317.
Right. And there are many manufacturers.
I checked IRFZ44 on LCSC, all they offered was from IRF.
But they offered LM317 from 11 different manufacturers,
or from 9, if I restricted it to a TO-220 package. The
lowest price was 6.8 cents, qty 100, compared to 25 cents
for the cheapest "standard" part from a U.S. distributor.
Their lowest price for an Infineon IRFZ44N was 21 cents,
about 3x below any of the U.S. distributors.
--
Thanks,
- Win
Reply by John Larkin●December 2, 20192019-12-02
On 2 Dec 2019 13:08:03 -0800, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>John Larkin wrote...
>>
>> There can be huge variations between different manufacturers
>> of a given part number. I've seen same-numbered power
>> transistors from different sources with a 4:1 chip area
>> difference. The small ones were fast and fragile.
>
> That's too often true. According to Octopart, only
> IRF (now Infineon) makes the IRFZ44 family of parts.
In the US at least, you can't copyright a part number. Anybody can
sell an LM317.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply by Winfield Hill●December 2, 20192019-12-02
John Larkin wrote...
>
> There can be huge variations between different manufacturers
> of a given part number. I've seen same-numbered power
> transistors from different sources with a 4:1 chip area
> difference. The small ones were fast and fragile.
That's too often true. According to Octopart, only
IRF (now Infineon) makes the IRFZ44 family of parts.
--
Thanks,
- Win
Reply by John Larkin●December 2, 20192019-12-02
On 2 Dec 2019 09:09:32 -0800, Winfield Hill <winfieldhill@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>Jeroen Belleman wrote...
>>
>>>> Re:1 - just checked and IRFZ44 model is in the default LTspice IV
>>>> library but no longer in LTspice XVII
>>>
>>> It's just a line of text. Someone who still has IV installed could
>>> pull it out of the standard.mos file.
>>
>> Here you go:
>
>.model IRFZ44N VDMOS(Rg=1.94 Vto=4 Rd=5.0m Rs=0.0m Rb=6.8m Kp=19
>Cgdmax=2.0n Cgdmin=0.08n Cgs=1.4n Cjo=0.9n Is=1.5p tt=63n
>>mfg=International_Rectifier Vds=55 Ron=13.9m Qg=63n)
>.model IRFZ44V VDMOS(Rg=1.97 Vto=4 Rd=4.5m Rs=0.0m Rb=6.0m Kp=19
>Cgdmax=3.2n Cgdmin=0.05n Cgs=1.6n Cjo=0.9n Is=0.5p tt=70n
>mfg=International_Rectifier Vds=55 Ron=13.9m Qg=67n)
>
> That's an IRFZ44N model. See my post showing a table of the
> different types available. The N type is halfway along on the
> morphing process, with changes like Rds = 14 rather than 24mR,
> Coss 360 instead of 920pF, etc. The IRFZ44N is well stocked,
> but so is IRFZ44Z, which is near the end of the "optimization"
> pathway for the 'Z44 types.
There can be huge variations between different manufacturers of a
given part number. I've seen same-numbered power transistors from
different sources with a 4:1 chip area difference. The small ones
were fast and fragile.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply by Winfield Hill●December 2, 20192019-12-02
Jeroen Belleman wrote...
>
>>> Re:1 - just checked and IRFZ44 model is in the default LTspice IV
>>> library but no longer in LTspice XVII
>>
>> It's just a line of text. Someone who still has IV installed could
>> pull it out of the standard.mos file.
>
> Here you go:
.model IRFZ44V VDMOS(Rg=1.97 Vto=4 Rd=4.5m Rs=0.0m Rb=6.0m Kp=19
Cgdmax=3.2n Cgdmin=0.05n Cgs=1.6n Cjo=0.9n Is=0.5p tt=70n
mfg=International_Rectifier Vds=55 Ron=13.9m Qg=67n)
That's an IRFZ44N model. See my post showing a table of the
different types available. The N type is halfway along on the
morphing process, with changes like Rds = 14 rather than 24mR,
Coss 360 instead of 920pF, etc. The IRFZ44N is well stocked,
but so is IRFZ44Z, which is near the end of the "optimization"
pathway for the 'Z44 types.
--
Thanks,
- Win
Reply by Jeroen Belleman●December 2, 20192019-12-02
jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 12:36:12 +0000, piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 02/12/2019 12:30 pm, piglet wrote:
>>> On 02/12/2019 8:00 am, Qasim khan wrote:
>>>> Hi Dear all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please help me to add following libraries in LT-Spice.
>>>>
>>>> 1. RFZ44
>>>> 2. Centered tapped Transformer
>>>> 3. PV cell
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you in advance for your answer and cooperation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Qasim
>>>>
>>> 1. Sorry cant help with IRFZ44 but there are similar looking devices in
>>> the default libraries - can't you just examine datasheets and pick the
>>> closest one?
>>>
>>> 2. Model as two separate inductors with equal inductance, then couple
>>> them with the K directive and join the dot end of one to the non-dot end
>>> of the other to make the centre tap.
>>>
>>> 3. Model as a current source paralleled by a silicon diode, choose a
>>> diode with Vf vs If to suit the PV you want?
>>>
>>> piglet
>>>
>> Re:1 - just checked and IRFZ44 model is in the default LTspice IV
>> library but no longer in LTspice XVII
>>
>> piglet
>
> It's just a line of text. Someone who still has IV installed could
> pull it out of the standard.mos file.
On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 12:36:12 +0000, piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>On 02/12/2019 12:30 pm, piglet wrote:
>> On 02/12/2019 8:00 am, Qasim khan wrote:
>>> Hi Dear all,
>>>
>>>
>>> Please help me to add following libraries in LT-Spice.
>>>
>>> 1. RFZ44
>>> 2. Centered tapped� Transformer
>>> 3. PV cell
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you in advance for your answer and cooperation.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Qasim
>>>
>>
>> 1. Sorry cant help with IRFZ44 but there are similar looking devices in
>> the default libraries - can't you just examine datasheets and pick the
>> closest one?
>>
>> 2. Model as two separate inductors with equal inductance, then couple
>> them with the K directive and join the dot end of one to the non-dot end
>> of the other to make the centre tap.
>>
>> 3. Model as a current source paralleled by a silicon diode, choose a
>> diode with Vf vs If to suit the PV you want?
>>
>> piglet
>>
>
>Re:1 - just checked and IRFZ44 model is in the default LTspice IV
>library but no longer in LTspice XVII
>
>piglet
It's just a line of text. Someone who still has IV installed could
pull it out of the standard.mos file.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
lunatic fringe electronics
Reply by Winfield Hill●December 2, 20192019-12-02
Qasim khan wrote...
>
> Please help me to add following libraries in LT-Spice.
>
> 1. RFZ44
> 2. Centered tapped Transformer
> 3. PV cell
The IRFZ44 is a star in our "MOSFETs through the ages"
section in AoE x-Chapters. That part was introduced ca
1986, and we cover how it quickly went through a series
of changes, each with a different part-number suffix.
Mostly they made improvements, from the point of view of
switching applications, see x-Chapter table in DropBox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3an0wn8jjl26p0c/3x.11_IRFZ44-types.JPG?dl=1
We have lots more to say in the text, but as you can see,
they massively changed most of the parameters, keeping
only Vds at 55 to 60V, and Id(max) at 35 to 40 amps.
While you can still order the original IRFZ44 die from
Vishay, most of the IRFZ44 offerings will be different,
so much that you'll want to use a different SPICE model.
--
Thanks,
- Win