Reply by Michael Terrell November 20, 20192019-11-20
On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 8:57:50 PM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 13:18:32 -0800, Michael Terrell wrote: > > > Not in a portable radio. There are four 1.5 and one 3V filaments, in > > series. The battery was 9VDC filament, and 90VDC for the Plate supply, > > and they were Carbon Zinc. > > Ah! Thanks for the clarification.
Some early, battery only consoles used similar, but larger tubes. I had a Western Auto console built in 1937 that an uncle had bought new. It was 30 years old when he gave it to me. The battery wasn't available, and the one bad tube was unavailable so I took a new surplus PC board for a modern table radio and wired it to the existing controls. I used it in my bedroom, for several years, until I went into the Army, 47 years ago. I didn't know if I would be coming back, so I sold my collection, and some of my test equipment and spare parts. These radios were somewhat replaced by ones that ran off the 32VDC 'Wincharger' systems on farms. They were generators mounted on a windmill tower to charge lead acid batteries to provide lights in farmhouses. They wired the homes with standard wiring used for AC, so when their area was supplied with AC, they simply changed out the 32V light bulbs with 120 volt bulbs and removed the Winchargers or just let them rust away. All of this was prior to WW II.
Reply by Cursitor Doom November 19, 20192019-11-19
On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 13:18:32 -0800, Michael Terrell wrote:

> Not in a portable radio. There are four 1.5 and one 3V filaments, in > series. The battery was 9VDC filament, and 90VDC for the Plate supply, > and they were Carbon Zinc.
Ah! Thanks for the clarification. -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.
Reply by Clifford Heath November 19, 20192019-11-19
On 19/11/19 4:16 pm, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:18:47 +0000 (UTC), > DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote: > >> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >> news:79d5ted4fk4adlctde3aa570b4mk31qkqr@4ax.com: >> >>> I guess a battery powered radio doesn't need much B+. >>> >> >> NEDA 200 67.5 volt batteries were common. >> >> <https://www.amazon.com/Exell-Battery-457-467-67-5-Volt/dp/B00NZ9C4C0> >> > > He wants 90 volts. I was wondering how much current. > > There were 90 volt batteries too. I think they were expensive. My 1965 > Allied catalog shows pricing from $2.97 for a small one to $8.90 for a > big one.
I recall using those during the 1970s in some WW2 radio. For less current, you can zig-zag ten 9V batteries together, just snap each one to the next one.
Reply by November 19, 20192019-11-19
Michael Terrell <terrell.michael.a@gmail.com> wrote in
news:674b18b9-eb09-4125-9e58-586583e2cc01@googlegroups.com: 

> On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 2:50:21 PM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom > wrote: >> On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:13:30 -0800, Michael Terrell wrote: >> >> > The filaments are 9V, not 2.8 >> >> ?? Surely 6.3V? > > Not in a portable radio. There are four 1.5 and one 3V filaments, > in series. The battery was 9VDC filament, and 90VDC for the Plate > supply, and they were Carbon Zinc. >
My radio handset had 3 inch long raytheon vacuum tubes in it. A whole array of little tiny tubes wired up in there. I wish a I still had them. I had a pair.
Reply by Michael Terrell November 19, 20192019-11-19
On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 2:50:21 PM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:13:30 -0800, Michael Terrell wrote: > > > The filaments are 9V, not 2.8 > > ?? Surely 6.3V?
Not in a portable radio. There are four 1.5 and one 3V filaments, in series. The battery was 9VDC filament, and 90VDC for the Plate supply, and they were Carbon Zinc.
Reply by Cursitor Doom November 19, 20192019-11-19
On Tue, 19 Nov 2019 04:13:30 -0800, Michael Terrell wrote:

> The filaments are 9V, not 2.8
?? Surely 6.3V? -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.
Reply by Michael Terrell November 19, 20192019-11-19
On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 12:35:08 PM UTC-5, Tauno Voipio wrote:
> On 19.11.19 13:55, Michael Terrell wrote: > > On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 4:47:28 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote: > >> PS to keep that MW band clear you could use a sinewave based converter, > >> maybe drive push-pull, and just use an extra 90 - 12 = 78 turns for the HV. > >> ringcores... > >> ebay module?? > >> Here a simple high power 12V converter with 2 old ring cores > >> driving those a bit into saturation here, but with less load it gives a nice sinewave > >> mine on the left, big ebay RF heating module on the right, 2 power MOSFETs push pull, 50 W: > >> http://panteltje.com/pub/12V_to_300Vpp_converter_dummy_load_current_IMG_6109.JPG > >> > >> There are many ways to do this, > > > > > > The filaments are series. 9VDC at 50 mA, for a .45W load. > > > > 9.5+3.0+6.0+6.0+0.5 = 25 mA maximum plate currents = 2.25W max load for the 90V supply. It is lower in actual use, of course. > > > > These tubes are directly heated, not separate cathode types. > > > > I am looking at using common rechargeable 18650 Li-ion Batteries. Three, in series to power the inverter, and a LDO regulator for the filaments.They will fit in the available space, Maybe even a double or triple set to extend the usable time between charges? Line the inside of the box with steel sheet metal to add weight and provide for fire protection? Unfortunately, the only metalworking company near here recently closed. I could have had metal boxes custom stamped for under $10 each. > > > > Have you considered the cathode potential difference due to the > series-connected filaments?
The fact that over a quarter million of these were built and sold would show that it was considered by the OEM. These tubes (1L5, 1U4, 1U5, 3V4) were designed to be used in this way. As long as the individual grids had the proper bias, why would it matter? These were first designed prior to WW II, in the early days of 20% components. https://www.tubesandmore.com/schematics/zenith-radio-corp/g500 is the BCB version that needs a battery.
Reply by Tauno Voipio November 19, 20192019-11-19
On 19.11.19 13:55, Michael Terrell wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 4:47:28 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> PS to keep that MW band clear you could use a sinewave based converter, >> maybe drive push-pull, and just use an extra 90 - 12 = 78 turns for the HV. >> ringcores... >> ebay module?? >> Here a simple high power 12V converter with 2 old ring cores >> driving those a bit into saturation here, but with less load it gives a nice sinewave >> mine on the left, big ebay RF heating module on the right, 2 power MOSFETs push pull, 50 W: >> http://panteltje.com/pub/12V_to_300Vpp_converter_dummy_load_current_IMG_6109.JPG >> >> There are many ways to do this, > > > The filaments are series. 9VDC at 50 mA, for a .45W load. > > 9.5+3.0+6.0+6.0+0.5 = 25 mA maximum plate currents = 2.25W max load for the 90V supply. It is lower in actual use, of course. > > These tubes are directly heated, not separate cathode types. > > I am looking at using common rechargeable 18650 Li-ion Batteries. Three, in series to power the inverter, and a LDO regulator for the filaments.They will fit in the available space, Maybe even a double or triple set to extend the usable time between charges? Line the inside of the box with steel sheet metal to add weight and provide for fire protection? Unfortunately, the only metalworking company near here recently closed. I could have had metal boxes custom stamped for under $10 each. >
Have you considered the cathode potential difference due to the series-connected filaments? -- -TV
Reply by Jan Panteltje November 19, 20192019-11-19
 >On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 4:47:28 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>> PS to keep that MW band clear you could use a sinewave based converter, >> maybe drive push-pull, and just use an extra 90 - 12 =3D 78 turns for the >HV. >> ringcores... >> ebay module?? >> Here a simple high power 12V converter with 2 old ring cores >> driving those a bit into saturation here, but with less load it gives a nice >sinewave >> mine on the left, big ebay RF heating module on the right, 2 power MOSFETs >push pull, 50 W: >> http://panteltje.com/pub/12V_to_300Vpp_converter_dummy_load_current_IMG_6109.JPG >> >> >There are many ways to do this, > > >The filaments are series. 9VDC at 50 mA, for a .45W load. > >9.5+3.0+6.0+6.0+0.5 =3D 25 mA maximum plate currents =3D 2.25W max load for >the 90V supply. It is lower in actual use, of course. > >These tubes are directly heated, not separate cathode types.
That is exactly the same as the European DL92 series I gave a link to.
>I am looking at using common rechargeable 18650 Li-ion Batteries. Three, in >series to power the inverter, and a LDO regulator for the filaments.They will >fit in the available space, Maybe even a double or triple set to extend >the usable time between charges? Line the inside of the box with steel sheet >metal to add weight and provide for fire protection? Unfortunately, the only >metalworking company near here recently closed. I could have had metal >boxes custom stamped for under $10 each.
OK then, seems like you have a different radio than I had.. Also I thought you wanted mains power and not batteries, but you want batteries and not mains. Li-ion works, but fire hazard, lifepo4 is safer but has less capacity. My experience with Lipo is better than li-ion for drones that is (at about 70 W load), I have 3 cell lipos for my RC plane, nominal about 11.1 V 2200 mAh. 2 cell Lipos for my Hubsan drone, 7.4 V nominal, bit low for the heaters.. I am moving everything else apart from the flying stuff here to lifepo4. The alternative would be to buy a standard DC to AC converter.. ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/173407681321? that one is 20 kHz square wave out... probably makes MW reception impossible, unless placed far away and filtered.... 7$ inclusive shipping, small too. Back to my ringcore 12 V to ?? converter, it has about 100 kHz sine out, mmm that is in the long wave band, and an harmonic every 100 kHz in the MW band ;-) if you must keep heaters separate some extra turns.. It is probably possible to do it at 2 MHz above MW, but I never tried, it needs RF ringcores for that. Interesting project :-)
Reply by Michael Terrell November 19, 20192019-11-19
On Tuesday, November 19, 2019 at 3:28:26 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
> >On Monday, November 18, 2019 at 10:46:53 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote: > >> >On Mon, 18 Nov 2019 00:02:56 -0800 (PST), Michael Terrell wrote: > >The filaments are in series, not parallel. The audio output tube is 3V, as well. > > Yes, I had one like that, battery eaters... > MW AM only... > > If you think in watts anodes all together about 150 mA 90 V -> 13.5 W. > Heaters 2.8V 150 mA 3 tubes? 2.8 V 450 mA -> 1.26 W.
Try 9V at 50mA, or 0.45W
> Together say 15 W, Converter efficiency 75 % -> total 20W..
Maximum plate load is only 2.25W
> Earhlings have one universal voltage on their planet: 12V (10-15). > Most cars have it and every country sells a wallwart for it ;-). > I would install a 12 V socket.. > Convert up to 90V > and down to 2.8V.
The filaments are 9V, not 2.8
> 12 V 20 W would need a say 12V 2A wallwart.
The radio already has a 120VAC power supply, why would you want a wallwart?
> 12 turns primary > Maybe 3 turns for the heaters.. > > The 12V switch-off would give about 70- 90V flyback peak, add some turns to make it a bit more. > Fast Si diode for the HV (no Schottky).
I have: 5000 - Vishay HER105-T
> As to the size of the E | core, for 20 W you need some real size, > think like a small transistor TV line output transformer core.
For less than 3W?
> Seems a fun project, but from a historic POV when transistors arrived I never looked back...
Tubes appreciated that, from you. :)