Selects fine in Chrome PDF viewer...
WTF, there's no equals signs in the models? Does LTspice actually stoop
that low?
Tim
--
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electrical Engineering Consultation and Design
Website: https://www.seventransistorlabs.com/
Reply by John Larkin●October 17, 20182018-10-17
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 12:56:46 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 15:33:37 -0400, Phil Hobbs
><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>
>>On 10/17/18 2:00 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:09:23 -0500, "Tim Williams"
>>> <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:7r7csdds4ns8q85jnm0k4eclklti7p7a45@4ax.com...
>>>>> I may have discovered a weird thermal runaway mechanism. Possibly as
>>>>> temperature increases, more current shifts from the schottky junction
>>>>> into the guard ring, reverse recovery dissipation increases, and boom.
>>>>
>>>> Recovery tempco is brutal. It's always a runaway (bistable) system. It's
>>>> only a matter of having enough cooling / little enough dissipation that it
>>>> doesn't quite get there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I might try some silicon carbide. More Vf but no guard ring.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Guard ring is still there, they just don't always show it. Infineon
>>>> datasheets I think usually go there, you see a step change around 4-6V
>>>> forward drop, depending on temp. No good for surge (they're probably not
>>>> made with big enough dies / heavy enough metallization to handle useful
>>>> surge in the first place), but you have all that clean, juicy SiC
>>>> performance at currents below there.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sad no one makes an 0.5A rated diode in SMA package.
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>
>>> This part's data sheet seems to show a PIN diode in parallel with the
>>> SiC schottky.
>>>
>>> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/GeneSiC-Semiconductor/GB01SLT06-214?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtQ8nqTKtFS%2fMVO5fHW5uUQxJgNxEhGpMT8TD%2fU6s%2fnzA%3d%3d
>>>
>>> The PDF tells me to copy the model and put it into Spice, but it's
>>> secured so Foxit doesn't allow me to copy it!
>>>
>>> grrrrr.
>>
>>Well, you could take a screenshot, make it into a PDF, and then OCR it
>>at <http://any2djvu.djvu.org>.
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Phil Hobbs
>
>Steve got it for me, but I can't get it to run.
>
>I suppose I'll buy something else.
>
>Someone, epc I think, actually supplies instantly-working LT Spice
>models and runnable .asc circuits.
This is barbaric. But it does in theory let me separately snoop the
schottky and PIN (guard ring?) currents.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pxfrmymrjn8u1s7/Genesic_1.jpg?raw=1
I wonder if it models reverse recovery right. Next thing to test.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply by John Larkin●October 17, 20182018-10-17
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 15:33:37 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>On 10/17/18 2:00 PM, John Larkin wrote:
>> On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:09:23 -0500, "Tim Williams"
>> <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote in message
>>> news:7r7csdds4ns8q85jnm0k4eclklti7p7a45@4ax.com...
>>>> I may have discovered a weird thermal runaway mechanism. Possibly as
>>>> temperature increases, more current shifts from the schottky junction
>>>> into the guard ring, reverse recovery dissipation increases, and boom.
>>>
>>> Recovery tempco is brutal. It's always a runaway (bistable) system. It's
>>> only a matter of having enough cooling / little enough dissipation that it
>>> doesn't quite get there.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I might try some silicon carbide. More Vf but no guard ring.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Guard ring is still there, they just don't always show it. Infineon
>>> datasheets I think usually go there, you see a step change around 4-6V
>>> forward drop, depending on temp. No good for surge (they're probably not
>>> made with big enough dies / heavy enough metallization to handle useful
>>> surge in the first place), but you have all that clean, juicy SiC
>>> performance at currents below there.
>>>
>>> I'm sad no one makes an 0.5A rated diode in SMA package.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>
>> This part's data sheet seems to show a PIN diode in parallel with the
>> SiC schottky.
>>
>> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/GeneSiC-Semiconductor/GB01SLT06-214?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtQ8nqTKtFS%2fMVO5fHW5uUQxJgNxEhGpMT8TD%2fU6s%2fnzA%3d%3d
>>
>> The PDF tells me to copy the model and put it into Spice, but it's
>> secured so Foxit doesn't allow me to copy it!
>>
>> grrrrr.
>
>Well, you could take a screenshot, make it into a PDF, and then OCR it
>at <http://any2djvu.djvu.org>.
>
>Cheers
>
>Phil Hobbs
Steve got it for me, but I can't get it to run.
I suppose I'll buy something else.
Someone, epc I think, actually supplies instantly-working LT Spice
models and runnable .asc circuits.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply by John Larkin●October 17, 20182018-10-17
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 12:19:47 -0700 (PDT), Steve Wilson
<9fe142ac@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 2:00:25 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
>
>> The PDF tells me to copy the model and put it into Spice, but it's
>> secured so Foxit doesn't allow me to copy it!
>
>> grrrrr.
>
>The spice file is at
>
>http://www.genesicsemi.com/images/products_sic/rectifiers/GB01SLT06-214_SPICE.pdf
>
>It is not secured.
>
>> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
>> picosecond timing precision measurement
>>
>> jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
>> http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Great, thanks.
This is a nice looking part, the only SMB SiC diode I have seen,
fairly low capacitance, but it may not be available. I've pinged the
local rep.
Their web site is terrible.
genesicsemi.com
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement
jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply by Phil Hobbs●October 17, 20182018-10-17
On 10/17/18 2:00 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:09:23 -0500, "Tim Williams"
> <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote:
>
>> "John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote in message
>> news:7r7csdds4ns8q85jnm0k4eclklti7p7a45@4ax.com...
>>> I may have discovered a weird thermal runaway mechanism. Possibly as
>>> temperature increases, more current shifts from the schottky junction
>>> into the guard ring, reverse recovery dissipation increases, and boom.
>>
>> Recovery tempco is brutal. It's always a runaway (bistable) system. It's
>> only a matter of having enough cooling / little enough dissipation that it
>> doesn't quite get there.
>>
>>
>>> I might try some silicon carbide. More Vf but no guard ring.
>>>
>>
>> Guard ring is still there, they just don't always show it. Infineon
>> datasheets I think usually go there, you see a step change around 4-6V
>> forward drop, depending on temp. No good for surge (they're probably not
>> made with big enough dies / heavy enough metallization to handle useful
>> surge in the first place), but you have all that clean, juicy SiC
>> performance at currents below there.
>>
>> I'm sad no one makes an 0.5A rated diode in SMA package.
>>
>> Tim
>
> This part's data sheet seems to show a PIN diode in parallel with the
> SiC schottky.
>
> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/GeneSiC-Semiconductor/GB01SLT06-214?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtQ8nqTKtFS%2fMVO5fHW5uUQxJgNxEhGpMT8TD%2fU6s%2fnzA%3d%3d
>
> The PDF tells me to copy the model and put it into Spice, but it's
> secured so Foxit doesn't allow me to copy it!
>
> grrrrr.
Well, you could take a screenshot, make it into a PDF, and then OCR it
at <http://any2djvu.djvu.org>.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
http://electrooptical.nethttp://hobbs-eo.com
Reply by Steve Wilson●October 17, 20182018-10-17
On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 2:00:25 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> The PDF tells me to copy the model and put it into Spice, but it's
> secured so Foxit doesn't allow me to copy it!
> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
> picosecond timing precision measurement
>
> jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
> http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply by Jasen Betts●October 17, 20182018-10-17
On 2018-10-17, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:09:23 -0500, "Tim Williams"
><tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote:
>
>>"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote in message
>>news:7r7csdds4ns8q85jnm0k4eclklti7p7a45@4ax.com...
>>> I may have discovered a weird thermal runaway mechanism. Possibly as
>>> temperature increases, more current shifts from the schottky junction
>>> into the guard ring, reverse recovery dissipation increases, and boom.
>>
>>Recovery tempco is brutal. It's always a runaway (bistable) system. It's
>>only a matter of having enough cooling / little enough dissipation that it
>>doesn't quite get there.
>>
>>
>>> I might try some silicon carbide. More Vf but no guard ring.
>>>
>>
>>Guard ring is still there, they just don't always show it. Infineon
>>datasheets I think usually go there, you see a step change around 4-6V
>>forward drop, depending on temp. No good for surge (they're probably not
>>made with big enough dies / heavy enough metallization to handle useful
>>surge in the first place), but you have all that clean, juicy SiC
>>performance at currents below there.
>>
>>I'm sad no one makes an 0.5A rated diode in SMA package.
>>
>>Tim
>
> This part's data sheet seems to show a PIN diode in parallel with the
> SiC schottky.
>
> https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/GeneSiC-Semiconductor/GB01SLT06-214?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtQ8nqTKtFS%2fMVO5fHW5uUQxJgNxEhGpMT8TD%2fU6s%2fnzA%3d%3d
>
> The PDF tells me to copy the model and put it into Spice, but it's
> secured so Foxit doesn't allow me to copy it!
>
Evince allows me to copy it, all the tabs are line breaks in the copy.
here it is reformeatted
* MODEL OF GeneSiC Semiconductor Inc.
*
* $Revision: 1.0 $
* $Date: 09-SEP-2013 $
*
* GeneSiC Semiconductor Inc.
* 43670 Trade Center Place Ste. 155
* Dulles, VA 20166
*
* COPYRIGHT (C) 2013 GeneSiC Semiconductor Inc.
* ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
*
* These models are provided "AS IS, WHERE IS, AND WITH NO WARRANTY
* OF ANY KIND EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED
* TO ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A
* PARTICULAR PURPOSE."
* Models accurate up to 2 times rated drain current.
*
* Start of GB01SLT06-214 SPICE Model
*
.SUBCKT GB01SLT06 ANODE KATHODE
D1 ANODE KATHODE GB01SLT06_25C; Call the Schottky Diode Model
D2 ANODE KATHODE GB01SLT06_PIN; Call the PiN Diode Model
.MODEL GB01SLT06_25C D
+ IS 3.57E-18 RS 0.49751
+ TRS1 0.0057 TRS2 2.40E-05
+ N 1 IKF 322
+ EG 1.2 XTI 3
+ CJO 9.12E-11 VJ 0.371817384
+ M 1.527759838 FC 0.5
+ TT 1.00E-10 BV 650
+ IBV 1.00E-03 VPK 650
+ IAVE 1 TYPE SiC_Schottky
+ MFG GeneSiC_Semiconductor
.MODEL GB01SLT06_PIN D
+ IS 5.73E-11 RS 0.72994
+ N 5 IKF 800
+ EG 3.23 XTI -14
+ FC 0.5 TT 0
+ BV 650 IBV 1.00E-03
+ VPK 650 IAVE 1
+ TYPE SiC_PiN
.ENDS
*
* End of GB01SLT06-214 SPICE Model
--
Notsodium is mined on the banks of denial.
Reply by Steve Wilson●October 17, 20182018-10-17
On Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 2:00:25 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
> The PDF tells me to copy the model and put it into Spice, but it's
> secured so Foxit doesn't allow me to copy it!
> grrrrr.
I load it in OpenOffice V3.2.0. You can copy sections to the clipboard or print the entire thing to a PDF. This removes the secured block. The new PDF may be larger than the original, but you can at least get your data.
> John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
> picosecond timing precision measurement
>
> jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
> http://www.highlandtechnology.com
Reply by John Larkin●October 17, 20182018-10-17
On Tue, 16 Oct 2018 17:09:23 -0500, "Tim Williams"
<tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote:
>"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote in message
>news:7r7csdds4ns8q85jnm0k4eclklti7p7a45@4ax.com...
>> I may have discovered a weird thermal runaway mechanism. Possibly as
>> temperature increases, more current shifts from the schottky junction
>> into the guard ring, reverse recovery dissipation increases, and boom.
>
>Recovery tempco is brutal. It's always a runaway (bistable) system. It's
>only a matter of having enough cooling / little enough dissipation that it
>doesn't quite get there.
>
>
>> I might try some silicon carbide. More Vf but no guard ring.
>>
>
>Guard ring is still there, they just don't always show it. Infineon
>datasheets I think usually go there, you see a step change around 4-6V
>forward drop, depending on temp. No good for surge (they're probably not
>made with big enough dies / heavy enough metallization to handle useful
>surge in the first place), but you have all that clean, juicy SiC
>performance at currents below there.
>
>I'm sad no one makes an 0.5A rated diode in SMA package.
>
>Tim
On Wed, 17 Oct 2018 03:57:46 -0500, "Tim Williams"
<tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote:
>"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote in message
>news:jtqcsdde1hfmdg6odpreilrfdjks11kme9@4ax.com...
>> I'll be pushing maybe 10 to 15 amps in a short pulse, and I'll be
>> back-biasing the diode fast at the end. I will be expecting numbers
>> like 1.5 volts forward, which sounds safe based on your 4-6 volts for
>> the guard ring.
>
>To get there, you'll need pretty much a 4-8A diode. You'll have to check if
>it's worth the extra capacitance, or if you need to eat the losses with a
>bigger heatsink.
>
>There's always your old GaN friend, a few EPCxxx stacked would do almost as
>well, with a tiny fraction of the capacitance. And you already have some
>familiarity with mounting and sinking them.
>
>There are bigger, hotter (~600V) GaNs on the market now, which may be a
>better fit (less Vf than a stack).
>
>
>> This is cute, but the price is insane.
> ^ ^ ^
>>
>> https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/genesic-semiconductor/GAP3SLT33-214/1242-1172-2-ND/3904847
>>
>
>Yeah, like I said, they don't exist. :^)
>
>Tim
I dropped a Cree C3D03065 into my Spice model, and it worked fine,
about 2.5 volts peak forward drop, 1.9 watts dissipation.
But the silicon schottkies Spiced fine, too. Nobody includes guard
rings in their models.
I was thinking about fuel dragsters and tractor pulls. About two
seconds into every third race, the entire engine explodes and flames
and hunks of metal fly out. So back to the shop for a total rebuild.
I'm starting to know how they feel.
--
John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
lunatic fringe electronics