>>"Jim Thompson" wrote in message
>>news:pjtjncheeqb9np3ageg09b5pknvkf7bsua@4ax.com...
>
>On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 20:24:42 +0100, "Kevin Aylward"
><kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>>
>>I have yet to implement a true loop gain/phase (double ac run), but what I
>>have is actually very accurate if you buffer the loop where the voltage
>>source is, and put a load to duplicate the load it would see if connected.
>>I
>>have compared this technique with the Cadence/Tain method, and it is
>>usually
>>very close. I am just lacking the incentive to write the shit of collating
>>every pair of runs, for every set of corners...
>
>>That function doesn't have to be coded into the simulator, it is
>>easily done using macros, as in...
>
>It does when the simulator don't have scripting :-(
>
>
>>LoopGain.zip ACCURATE LOOP GAIN and PHASE ANALYSIS with Spice and
>>PSpice
>
>>on the Simulation Tools & Macros page of my website.
>
>>I originated the idea, from Middlebrook's lab techniques. Cadence
>>copied my scheme ;-)
>
>
>Cadence LG is quite user friendly, when it works. Place the voltage source,
>and press the button. However, it has a basic fault, which I am assured
>their team is now fixing.
>
>The dumb $hits had this:
>
>"unable to calculate loop phase margin and gain margin because the system is
>unstable". Dah...
>
>As in , when wanting to know how much extra gain one has in an *oscillator*,
>despite the LG function working, the software says, I am just not going to
>tell you what the result is.
>
>They had no idea that that knowing the gain for an unstable system is of
>fundamental importance in designing oscillators. This is 2017. It is simply
>staggering how they can miss something as trivial as this.
>
>I had to write a script to calculate the data from the LG data that was
>actually available.
>
>The also said that were were going to implement another feature request of
>mine.
>
>In designing 3rd overtone oscillators, one needs to know what the gain is
>large enough, say +6dB at the "C-Mode" desired frequency, and that the gain
>at the "B-Mode" (10% close) is below 0dB, say -6dB.
>
>So, one needs to pop out the loop gain at all 0 deg, 360 deg, 720 degs etc.
>Sometimes there are multiple 0 deg phase points, only one wanted.
>
>I have manually wrote scripts that do this, but its a pain.
>
>-- Kevin Aylward
>http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice
>http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html
I created a subcircuit which I just plunk into the loop.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I'm looking for work... see my website.
Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.
Reply by Kevin Aylward●July 27, 20172017-07-27
>"Jim Thompson" wrote in message
>news:pjtjncheeqb9np3ageg09b5pknvkf7bsua@4ax.com...
>
>I have yet to implement a true loop gain/phase (double ac run), but what I
>have is actually very accurate if you buffer the loop where the voltage
>source is, and put a load to duplicate the load it would see if connected.
>I
>have compared this technique with the Cadence/Tain method, and it is
>usually
>very close. I am just lacking the incentive to write the shit of collating
>every pair of runs, for every set of corners...
>That function doesn't have to be coded into the simulator, it is
>easily done using macros, as in...
It does when the simulator don't have scripting :-(
>LoopGain.zip ACCURATE LOOP GAIN and PHASE ANALYSIS with Spice and
>PSpice
>on the Simulation Tools & Macros page of my website.
>I originated the idea, from Middlebrook's lab techniques. Cadence
>copied my scheme ;-)
Cadence LG is quite user friendly, when it works. Place the voltage source,
and press the button. However, it has a basic fault, which I am assured
their team is now fixing.
The dumb $hits had this:
"unable to calculate loop phase margin and gain margin because the system is
unstable". Dah...
As in , when wanting to know how much extra gain one has in an *oscillator*,
despite the LG function working, the software says, I am just not going to
tell you what the result is.
They had no idea that that knowing the gain for an unstable system is of
fundamental importance in designing oscillators. This is 2017. It is simply
staggering how they can miss something as trivial as this.
I had to write a script to calculate the data from the LG data that was
actually available.
The also said that were were going to implement another feature request of
mine.
In designing 3rd overtone oscillators, one needs to know what the gain is
large enough, say +6dB at the "C-Mode" desired frequency, and that the gain
at the "B-Mode" (10% close) is below 0dB, say -6dB.
So, one needs to pop out the loop gain at all 0 deg, 360 deg, 720 degs etc.
Sometimes there are multiple 0 deg phase points, only one wanted.
I have manually wrote scripts that do this, but its a pain.
-- Kevin Aylward
http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice
http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html
Reply by Joerg●July 27, 20172017-07-27
On 2017-07-26 18:41, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 06:51:56 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-07-25 18:00, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 10:41:43 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-07-24 18:33, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 13:46:25 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> I still have a copy of Microsim, but I never use it for anything.
>>>>>> LTspice works fine, for values of "fine" accessible to board-level designs.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's the key. The needs are quite different. The usefulness is
>>>>> also quite different.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've had pretty good luck with LTspice for discrete designs, but the op
>>>>>> amp models are all crap. That bargain-basement 100-ps sampler came out
>>>>>> pretty nearly bang-on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pretty much all board-level models are crap.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They have allowed me to do some very non-standard designs. Stuff where
>>>> others said that it isn't possible. LTSpice is about to do so again.
>>>
>>> When I get more current out of the output of an opamp than current
>>> into the power pin, I get pretty leery of the whole thing. Or
>>> transistor models working "normally" at absurd extremes. I've seen
>>> too many of these sorts of problems to trust any models past pretty
>>> trivial sims. I never had any such problems with chip-level sims. If
>>> the models weren't correct, no chip would work.
>>>
>>
>> This is different. Say you want to drive an actuator with a switcher
>> chip and the drive is highly nonlinear but must be zippy. If you can't
>> have access to the innards of the loop sections in the chip you can't do
>> it. LTC gives you that inside in a way that it can be simulated fast.
>> Some (few) others give you a complete model but then every simulation
>> run takes hours or days. Most manufacturers give you ... nothing, and
>> then it can't be done with sufficient confidence. Just because it works
>> on the bench does not mean you have an ECO-releasable design. This is
>> where LTSpice comes in a lot for me and afterwards LTC enjoys extra sales.
>
> IFF you trust their model. I haven't found that it's a good idea to
> trust without verifying. There is no verifying things you can't
> measure.
This is where their excellent support comes in. When doing something
unorthodox I ask them. Sometimes they then have to defer to their IC
designers but I get my answer. The engineer who supported me over 20
years ago is still there. Try that with another company.
LTC products are too expenisive for most mass production projects but
for tough mission-critical stuff they are a good source.
[...]
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by Joerg●July 27, 20172017-07-27
On 2017-07-26 18:27, krw@notreal.com wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 07:29:14 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-07-25 17:31, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 07:07:28 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-07-24 18:25, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 07:47:55 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2017-07-23 14:39, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The liver has an amazing ability to heal. Cut 2/3s out and it'll grow
>>>>> back. My liver enzymes were out of whack a few years ago by they
>>>>> corrected themselves in six months or so. Kidneys aren't so
>>>>> forgiving.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best of all bno gym fees. Ok, the road bike consumes 10c/mi worth of
>>>>>> spare parts and the mountain bike over 20c. Tires, chains and such.
>>>>>
>>>>> DOn't mind the gym fees at all. I good use of it (two to three hours
>>>>> a day).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Try bicycling some day. It is much more pleasant. Wind through the face,
>>>> views, getting to interesting places, the occasional saloon stop. My
>>>> favorite mode is mountain biking.
>>>
>>> Too boring. No safe place to do it.
>>
>>
>> Then I'd move to a place where that's different. There may come a time
>> where the house and property here becomes to big for us to maintain
>> because we won't grow younger. I already told my wife that if we move it
>> has to be out of California and to an area with great mountain bike
>> trails. Southern Utah, for example.
>
> Moving wouldn't make it any less boring.
>>
>>> ... I don't drink beer (or any alcohol) anymore.
>>>
>>
>> That is healthy as long as the replacement isn't soda pop. I love beer
>> and also brew it myself.
>
> I don't buy 99% of the "health" BS. It'll change next week.
Same here. I did a 38mi ride in the heat yesterday and dropped into one
of my favorite watering holes at mile 30. Had nice Belgian beer there.
>>
>>>> Even watching Netflix would be boring for me. Most of all because they
>>>> have barely any of the good old movies which is why I declined subscription.
>>>
>>> It's something to pass the time.
>>>
>>
>> I think I'll never understand that :-)
>
> What's the issue. Exercise is incredibly boring. Netflix[*] passes
> the time.
>
I find sitting in front of a screen incredibly boring. Riding never is
boring where I go. Got to pick good routes.
> [*] Netflix because they allow offline viewing for much of their
> content. There are alternative services that I'd prefer if I could
> watch offline. The gym's WiFi is unreliable (probably by design).
I took a detailed look at Netflix's offerings ... <yawn> ... and then
decided not to subscribe. Heck, they didn't even have the good old Westerns.
>>
>>>>>>> [*] That your ultrasound thingy too? I've had several of them. None
>>>>>>> of it is any fun at all. Total waste of a "vacation" day, too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some of the machines I designed front-end parts for are also used for
>>>>>> TEE. The toughest machine I was involved in pushes the envelope a little
>>>>>> farther. 64 transducer elements and five ICs inside a small catheter tip:
>>>>>
>>>>> Did that two weeks ago and will do it again in another couple of weeks
>>>>> (found something they didn't like, so stopped there). Not fun.
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/papers/PCC_1.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It goes in through the same temporary femoralis port they use for the
>>>>>> guidewires, balloon catheters and stent delivery.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, that's what I was talking about too. They used one on me in
>>>>> November and will again in a couple of weeks. That one isn't a
>>>>> problem. It's the RF catheter that hurts like hell (think soldering
>>>>> iron stuck through the back).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sure, but it can stop fibrillation very well if successful.
>>>
>>> That was the plan and it worked for a about six months. Maybe this
>>> time it'll be permanent. My cardiologist isn't all that optimistic,
>>> though. He wouldn't recommend the procedure if the fibrillation
>>> wasn't such a PITA.
>>
>>
>> Strange. AFAIU that should fix it for good as long as the scarring is
>> done properly and consecutively, without gaps.
>
> I know several people who have had multiple ablations. My
> elecrophysiologist says he'll do three, then it's time for a pacemaker
> (not liking that alternative!). I've already had the MAZE procedure
> so I shouldn't have had this problem to begin with.
>
Never heard of three attemps but ever since this Obamacare was enacted I
am mostly out of med-tech because that took a nose dive.
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
>I have yet to implement a true loop gain/phase (double ac run), but what I
>have is actually very accurate if you buffer the loop where the voltage
>source is, and put a load to duplicate the load it would see if connected. I
>have compared this technique with the Cadence/Tain method, and it is usually
>very close. I am just lacking the incentive to write the shit of collating
>every pair of runs, for every set of corners...
>
>-- Kevin Aylward
>http://www.anasoft.co.uk - SuperSpice
>http://www.kevinaylward.co.uk/ee/index.html
That function doesn't have to be coded into the simulator, it is
easily done using macros, as in...
LoopGain.zip ACCURATE LOOP GAIN and PHASE ANALYSIS with Spice and
PSpice
on the Simulation Tools & Macros page of my website.
I originated the idea, from Middlebrook's lab techniques. Cadence
copied my scheme ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I'm looking for work... see my website.
Thinking outside the box...producing elegant & economic solutions.
Reply by ●July 26, 20172017-07-26
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 06:51:56 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:
>On 2017-07-25 18:00, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 10:41:43 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-07-24 18:33, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 13:46:25 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>
>>>>> I still have a copy of Microsim, but I never use it for anything.
>>>>> LTspice works fine, for values of "fine" accessible to board-level designs.
>>>>
>>>> That's the key. The needs are quite different. The usefulness is
>>>> also quite different.
>>>>
>>>>> I've had pretty good luck with LTspice for discrete designs, but the op
>>>>> amp models are all crap. That bargain-basement 100-ps sampler came out
>>>>> pretty nearly bang-on.
>>>>
>>>> Pretty much all board-level models are crap.
>>>>
>>>
>>> They have allowed me to do some very non-standard designs. Stuff where
>>> others said that it isn't possible. LTSpice is about to do so again.
>>
>> When I get more current out of the output of an opamp than current
>> into the power pin, I get pretty leery of the whole thing. Or
>> transistor models working "normally" at absurd extremes. I've seen
>> too many of these sorts of problems to trust any models past pretty
>> trivial sims. I never had any such problems with chip-level sims. If
>> the models weren't correct, no chip would work.
>>
>
>This is different. Say you want to drive an actuator with a switcher
>chip and the drive is highly nonlinear but must be zippy. If you can't
>have access to the innards of the loop sections in the chip you can't do
>it. LTC gives you that inside in a way that it can be simulated fast.
>Some (few) others give you a complete model but then every simulation
>run takes hours or days. Most manufacturers give you ... nothing, and
>then it can't be done with sufficient confidence. Just because it works
>on the bench does not mean you have an ECO-releasable design. This is
>where LTSpice comes in a lot for me and afterwards LTC enjoys extra sales.
IFF you trust their model. I haven't found that it's a good idea to
trust without verifying. There is no verifying things you can't
measure.
>
>Companies do not hire consultants to do jobs that can be done by more or
>less copying an app note solution. Most hire them when they run out of
>ideas on how to proceed. I make my living that way.
Reply by ●July 26, 20172017-07-26
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 07:29:14 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:
>On 2017-07-25 17:31, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 07:07:28 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2017-07-24 18:25, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 07:47:55 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2017-07-23 14:39, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>
>>>> The liver has an amazing ability to heal. Cut 2/3s out and it'll grow
>>>> back. My liver enzymes were out of whack a few years ago by they
>>>> corrected themselves in six months or so. Kidneys aren't so
>>>> forgiving.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best of all bno gym fees. Ok, the road bike consumes 10c/mi worth of
>>>>> spare parts and the mountain bike over 20c. Tires, chains and such.
>>>>
>>>> DOn't mind the gym fees at all. I good use of it (two to three hours
>>>> a day).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Try bicycling some day. It is much more pleasant. Wind through the face,
>>> views, getting to interesting places, the occasional saloon stop. My
>>> favorite mode is mountain biking.
>>
>> Too boring. No safe place to do it.
>
>
>Then I'd move to a place where that's different. There may come a time
>where the house and property here becomes to big for us to maintain
>because we won't grow younger. I already told my wife that if we move it
>has to be out of California and to an area with great mountain bike
>trails. Southern Utah, for example.
Moving wouldn't make it any less boring.
>
>
>> ... I don't drink beer (or any alcohol) anymore.
>>
>
>That is healthy as long as the replacement isn't soda pop. I love beer
>and also brew it myself.
I don't buy 99% of the "health" BS. It'll change next week.
>
>>> Even watching Netflix would be boring for me. Most of all because they
>>> have barely any of the good old movies which is why I declined subscription.
>>
>> It's something to pass the time.
>>
>
>I think I'll never understand that :-)
What's the issue. Exercise is incredibly boring. Netflix[*] passes
the time.
[*] Netflix because they allow offline viewing for much of their
content. There are alternative services that I'd prefer if I could
watch offline. The gym's WiFi is unreliable (probably by design).
>
>>>>>> [*] That your ultrasound thingy too? I've had several of them. None
>>>>>> of it is any fun at all. Total waste of a "vacation" day, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of the machines I designed front-end parts for are also used for
>>>>> TEE. The toughest machine I was involved in pushes the envelope a little
>>>>> farther. 64 transducer elements and five ICs inside a small catheter tip:
>>>>
>>>> Did that two weeks ago and will do it again in another couple of weeks
>>>> (found something they didn't like, so stopped there). Not fun.
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/papers/PCC_1.pdf
>>>>>
>>>>> It goes in through the same temporary femoralis port they use for the
>>>>> guidewires, balloon catheters and stent delivery.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, that's what I was talking about too. They used one on me in
>>>> November and will again in a couple of weeks. That one isn't a
>>>> problem. It's the RF catheter that hurts like hell (think soldering
>>>> iron stuck through the back).
>>>
>>>
>>> Sure, but it can stop fibrillation very well if successful.
>>
>> That was the plan and it worked for a about six months. Maybe this
>> time it'll be permanent. My cardiologist isn't all that optimistic,
>> though. He wouldn't recommend the procedure if the fibrillation
>> wasn't such a PITA.
>
>
>Strange. AFAIU that should fix it for good as long as the scarring is
>done properly and consecutively, without gaps.
I know several people who have had multiple ablations. My
elecrophysiologist says he'll do three, then it's time for a pacemaker
(not liking that alternative!). I've already had the MAZE procedure
so I shouldn't have had this problem to begin with.
Reply by ●July 26, 20172017-07-26
On Wed, 26 Jul 2017 07:33:34 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:
>On 2017-07-25 17:42, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 10:43:34 -0700, John Larkin
>> <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 12:53:47 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 07/25/2017 11:55 AM, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 07:07:28 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2017-07-24 18:25, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 07:47:55 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2017-07-23 14:39, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The liver has an amazing ability to heal. Cut 2/3s out and it'll grow
>>>>>>> back. My liver enzymes were out of whack a few years ago by they
>>>>>>> corrected themselves in six months or so. Kidneys aren't so
>>>>>>> forgiving.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Best of all bno gym fees. Ok, the road bike consumes 10c/mi worth of
>>>>>>>> spare parts and the mountain bike over 20c. Tires, chains and such.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DOn't mind the gym fees at all. I good use of it (two to three hours
>>>>>>> a day).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Try bicycling some day. It is much more pleasant. Wind through the face,
>>>>>> views, getting to interesting places, the occasional saloon stop. My
>>>>>> favorite mode is mountain biking.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even watching Netflix would be boring for me. Most of all because they
>>>>>> have barely any of the good old movies which is why I declined subscription.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [*] That your ultrasound thingy too? I've had several of them. None
>>>>>>>>> of it is any fun at all. Total waste of a "vacation" day, too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Some of the machines I designed front-end parts for are also used for
>>>>>>>> TEE. The toughest machine I was involved in pushes the envelope a little
>>>>>>>> farther. 64 transducer elements and five ICs inside a small catheter tip:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did that two weeks ago and will do it again in another couple of weeks
>>>>>>> (found something they didn't like, so stopped there). Not fun.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/papers/PCC_1.pdf
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It goes in through the same temporary femoralis port they use for the
>>>>>>>> guidewires, balloon catheters and stent delivery.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, that's what I was talking about too. They used one on me in
>>>>>>> November and will again in a couple of weeks. That one isn't a
>>>>>>> problem. It's the RF catheter that hurts like hell (think soldering
>>>>>>> iron stuck through the back).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure, but it can stop fibrillation very well if successful.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ... It's amazing what they can do and a four
>>>>>>> hours and $30K ($60K without insurance).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yup. The hourly rate of an engineer or even a lawyer is a pittance
>>>>>> compared to what it is in cardiology and similar fields. In the US it
>>>>>> has gone out of control which in view of our messed up tort law is no
>>>>>> surprise. I once talk to a cardiologist in a non-socialist state
>>>>>> (Florida) who paid north of $100k in malpractice insurance premiums
>>>>>> despite being claim-free. That was a long time ago, probably much more
>>>>>> today.
>>>>>
>>>>> We don't have enough MDs in the USA, and we pay them too much. And we
>>>>> should use nurse practitioners and clinics and negotiated generic
>>>>> drugs more. All the mucking about with complex and silly health care
>>>>> bills in DC is not changing the fundamentals.
>>>>
>>>> I avoid nurse practitioners whenever possible. Unless you're bleeding
>>>> all over the floor or have a fever of 105, IME they won't do anything
>>>> for you except pat you on the head and send you home.
>>>
>>> That's because they only do what they are allowed to do.
>>
>> That's completely up to the MD they're working for. They're working
>> under his license, so he sorta runs things.
>>
>
>Every time they try to change that the usual turf protection behavior
>comes in.
No, quite the opposite. The MD is the employer. The PAs and NPs are
making him money.
I don't know CA law (obviously) but the NPs and PAs here don't call
the MD for every little instruction. They're pretty independent for
every day things.
The orthopedic NP who treated me didn't consult the MD at all, I don't
think. She ordered an X-Ray, then when that didn't show anything, an
MRI, then DEXA to try to see what was going on. She then sent me back
to my primary care physician (nothing left to do). She did ask if I
wanted to consult with the MD but what's the point?
Reply by John S●July 26, 20172017-07-26
On 7/25/2017 3:30 PM, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 10:41:43 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-07-24 18:33, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Mon, 24 Jul 2017 13:46:25 -0400, Phil Hobbs
>>> <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>
>>>> I still have a copy of Microsim, but I never use it for anything.
>>>> LTspice works fine, for values of "fine" accessible to board-level designs.
>>>
>>> That's the key. The needs are quite different. The usefulness is
>>> also quite different.
>>>
>>>> I've had pretty good luck with LTspice for discrete designs, but the op
>>>> amp models are all crap. That bargain-basement 100-ps sampler came out
>>>> pretty nearly bang-on.
>>>
>>> Pretty much all board-level models are crap.
>>>
>>
>> They have allowed me to do some very non-standard designs. Stuff where
>> others said that it isn't possible. LTSpice is about to do so again.
>
> I simulate pcb-level designs all the time with LT Spice, including
> transmission lines as PCB traces. Not whole boards, but special
> circuits. It works.
Yes. Same here. Much better than SS which I recently tried again.
Reply by Cursitor Doom●July 26, 20172017-07-26
On Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:30:28 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
> I simulate pcb-level designs all the time with LT Spice, including
> transmission lines as PCB traces. Not whole boards, but special
> circuits. It works.