Reply by Don Y June 9, 20172017-06-09
On 6/9/2017 2:04 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
> On 2017-06-02, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >> On 6/2/2017 8:49 AM, hondgm@yahoo.com wrote: >>> I was perusing eBay recently and noticed these old Picstart Programmers >>> going for about $50. Why???!! With an RS232 port and I'm sure limited >>> capability, the only theory I have is as collector's items. >> >> How much of your *time* would $50 buy? >> >> Or, more generously, how much of your time would you SPEND $50 to *save*? >> >> Cables are reasonably mindless undertakings. Why would anyone *buy* a >> cable when they could MAKE one for far less money? >> >> I.e., if you have a *need*, then YOU decide what the most effective way >> to satisfy that need is likely to be. Build vs. Buy? Or, use something >> *other* than a PIC?? >> >> I've got an old Compaq Portable 386 (lunchbox) that I use as a "two slot >> ISA machine" for some legacy tools that I support. It harkens from >> the days of 20MB 5" disk drives. I can either try to find a tiny IDE >> drive that its' BIOS will recognize -- or, modify its BIOS to support >> a "less tiny" (but still incredibly tiny!) disk drive. >> >> [I chose the latter option] >> >> Should I replace the EPROMs holding the BIOS with FLASH devices? >> Or, erase/reprogram them directly -- which requires a UV light source >> and a PROM programmer. >> >> Will the PROM programmer have a USB interface? Serial? Parallel? >> Ethernet? >> >> etc. How far down this list of prerequisites do you travel before >> you consider it "not worth your effort"? >> >> [BTW, I keep a slew of old "development boards" in the garage for just >> that sort of legacy problem solving] > > boot from an SD to IDE adaptor, presumably you can still find SD cards > small enough to boot from.
You still have to coax the BIOS to accept the geometry of the drive (the Portable 386 doesn't support a "user customizable" drive "type")
Reply by Jasen Betts June 9, 20172017-06-09
On 2017-06-02, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
> On 6/2/2017 8:49 AM, hondgm@yahoo.com wrote: >> I was perusing eBay recently and noticed these old Picstart Programmers >> going for about $50. Why???!! With an RS232 port and I'm sure limited >> capability, the only theory I have is as collector's items. > > How much of your *time* would $50 buy? > > Or, more generously, how much of your time would you SPEND $50 to *save*? > > Cables are reasonably mindless undertakings. Why would anyone *buy* a > cable when they could MAKE one for far less money? > > I.e., if you have a *need*, then YOU decide what the most effective way > to satisfy that need is likely to be. Build vs. Buy? Or, use something > *other* than a PIC?? > > I've got an old Compaq Portable 386 (lunchbox) that I use as a "two slot > ISA machine" for some legacy tools that I support. It harkens from > the days of 20MB 5" disk drives. I can either try to find a tiny IDE > drive that its' BIOS will recognize -- or, modify its BIOS to support > a "less tiny" (but still incredibly tiny!) disk drive. > > [I chose the latter option] > > Should I replace the EPROMs holding the BIOS with FLASH devices? > Or, erase/reprogram them directly -- which requires a UV light source > and a PROM programmer. > > Will the PROM programmer have a USB interface? Serial? Parallel? > Ethernet? > > etc. How far down this list of prerequisites do you travel before > you consider it "not worth your effort"? > > [BTW, I keep a slew of old "development boards" in the garage for just > that sort of legacy problem solving]
boot from an SD to IDE adaptor, presumably you can still find SD cards small enough to boot from. -- This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software
Reply by Don Kuenz June 4, 20172017-06-04
mike <ham789@netzero.net> wrote:
> On 6/2/2017 8:49 AM, hondgm@yahoo.com wrote: >> I was perusing eBay recently and noticed these old Picstart Programmers >> going for about $50. Why???!! With an RS232 port and I'm sure limited >> capability, the only theory I have is as collector's items. >> > Because they just work. > A better question might be, "why would anybody pay $50?" )-: > I'd take $50 for one of mine in a flash.
The bid-ask spread on $50 is at least $37.56 and may even be $50. (You can buy Picstarts in quantity starting at $12.44.) Caveat emptor: ebay. Thank you, -- Don Kuenz KB7RPU
Reply by June 4, 20172017-06-04
On Saturday, June 3, 2017 at 10:44:49 AM UTC-5, Neon John wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 12:43:08 -0700 (PDT), hondgm@.com wrote: > > > >> >Ummmm, what? I don't know how we even got off on this tangent. > >> > >> Well that is your limitation :-) > >> > >I guess. What a condescending bunch. > > Not "bunch", just Panteltje who exists to start flame fests. Life > here will be much more pleasant once you put him in your killfile so > you won't have to see any of his spew? >
You're right, that's not the general attitude. I was thinking of another person, also with a 3-letter first name that starts with a J. He's not as bad as Jan apparently but likes to start arguments. Good to know Jan is off his rocker.
Reply by Don Y June 4, 20172017-06-04
On 6/4/2017 12:02 AM, mike wrote:
> On 6/2/2017 8:49 AM, hondgm@yahoo.com wrote: >> I was perusing eBay recently and noticed these old Picstart Programmers going >> for about $50. Why???!! With an RS232 port and I'm sure limited capability, >> the only theory I have is as collector's items. >> > Because they just work. > A better question might be, "why would anybody pay $50?" )-: > I'd take $50 for one of mine in a flash.
The trick, of course, is to match those in need to those having the items in question. I'm always amazed when I see power cords selling for $7.95 (do people actually *pay* for them??!)
Reply by mike June 4, 20172017-06-04
On 6/2/2017 8:49 AM, hondgm@yahoo.com wrote:
> I was perusing eBay recently and noticed these old Picstart Programmers going for about $50. Why???!! With an RS232 port and I'm sure limited capability, the only theory I have is as collector's items. >
Because they just work. A better question might be, "why would anybody pay $50?" )-: I'd take $50 for one of mine in a flash.
Reply by Chris Jones June 3, 20172017-06-03
On 03/06/2017 03:10, hondgm@yahoo.com wrote:
> I could for example buy a PICkit for $50 and be done with it.
I think you would have to buy 2 or 3 of them, so that you can keep working when the first one dies. I find that PICKit3s seem to kill themselves from time to time, I suspect due to some design flaw. I don't think it is ESD, as the circuit that I am programming has never died but multiple PICkits have. No, it is not that the internal PIC has lost its program, although that is also reported to be common - mine still get recognised by the PC and produce waveforms at the programming terminals, just the MCLR voltage is wrong iirc and it reports no target device connected. At one stage I started trying to fault-find one of the PICKIT3s - but I didn't have the time as I was supposed to be working on firmware for someone. Anyway I have a collection of dead PICKit3s to repair one day. No, they are not still covered by http://www.microchip.com/cisar/Home.aspx they want $25 (plus postage + hasle + waiting) to fix them, so at this time buying more new ones from the distributor was a better option.
Reply by Kamen Lilov June 3, 20172017-06-03
> > But, if I can *buy* a solution -- esp for very few dollars (which is where "50" > > fits on the scale) -- then its almost always a smarter way to use my time! > > THANK YOU. Now, will someone please try to explain that to Jan. Or, maybe don't as I have a feeling it's a waste of time.
It is a waste of time. The guy has some pretty obvious issues.
Reply by Don Y June 3, 20172017-06-03
On 6/3/2017 3:56 AM, hondgm@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 9:47:11 PM UTC-5, Don Y wrote: > >> >> But, if I can *buy* a solution -- esp for very few dollars (which is where >> "50" fits on the scale) -- then its almost always a smarter way to use my >> time! > > THANK YOU. Now, will someone please try to explain that to Jan. Or, maybe > don't as I have a feeling it's a waste of time.
People have their own motivations behind *their* decisions. I routinely repair LCD monitors. If you look at the *time* required of me to do so, it's silly -- I should spend that hour as billable time and use the monies received to *buy* a new monitor! But, it's a no-brainer activity, for me, and justifies itself as: - diverting scrap from landfills - "simple" problem solving (like putting together a jigsaw puzzle -- no effort required there!) Likewise, doing periodic maintenance on the cars. At $90/hour for the dealer's time, its cheaper to let *him* do everything! OTOH, if I have to put in an hour of my time to drive to/from the dealership and have to sit in a waiting room while he does the work, then I've not saved any (billable) time. And, if I put *my* head under the hood, *I* can see what's really happening, there, instead of trusting to a grease monkey to spot issues before they become "problems".
Reply by Neon John June 3, 20172017-06-03
On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 12:43:08 -0700 (PDT), hondgm@yahoo.com wrote:


>> >Ummmm, what? I don't know how we even got off on this tangent. >> >> Well that is your limitation :-) >> >I guess. What a condescending bunch.
Not "bunch", just Panteltje who exists to start flame fests. Life here will be much more pleasant once you put him in your killfile so you won't have to see any of his spew? As to your original question, could it be that the gadget in question programs early PICs that more modern ones don't? Or as my Mom, the antique dealer used to say "Never throw away anything. Someone somewhere will buy it". She was absolutely correct. John
> >> >I know how to program. The problem is getting the machine code into the PIC. >> >> So then you do NOT know how to program, do not know the hardware, cannot >design the hardware. > >If you're talking about designing a PIC programmer, yes, I do not care. Sometimes I reinvent the wheel, but in this case there's no value for me to do so. A micro programmer is a tool. In the same way I don't make my own screwdrivers and wrenches, I don't care much to make my own programmer because it's a waste of time. I'd rather design the product that contains the micro, that needs programming. > >If you're talking about designing a circuit with a ucontroller, yes I can do that. There's industrial products out there with PICs that I was the primary designer on. I did the circuit design and firmware, and customers purchased them. In fact there's an airport somewhere in eastern Europe with our equipment on their radar. You can say any smart-ass thing you want but like I said I got nothing to prove. > > >> period. >> I showed you how I did that. >> Don't want to learn fine with me. > >I'm always up for learning something useful, but so far you've only preached to me that I should build my own programmer instead of buying one, or something along those lines.
John DeArmond http://www.neon-john.com http://www.tnduction.com Tellico Plains, Occupied TN See website for email address