On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 19:46:52 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 18:19:21 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 07:42:15 -0800, John Larkin
>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 23:41:04 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 20:32:21 -0800, John Larkin
>>>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 13:24:03 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>><...>
>>>>
>>>>>>Argh.  Time to patch the roof.  If you don't hear from me, I fell off
>>>>>>the roof.
>>>>>
>>>>>Don't track that iccky black goo inside.
>>>>>
>>>>>This is our leak:
>>>>>
>>>>>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/SF/Glen_Park/Leak.JPG
>>>>>
>>>>>I chased it all around the ceiling with a sabre saw, until I found the
>>>>>actual origin. It's around the chimney, maybe the flashing. It only
>>>>>leaks in high wind.
>>>>
>>>>You start with roof penetrations.  Only after they're eliminated as
>>>>sources of the leak do you rip up anything else.  Otherwise, you're
>>>>just playing whack-a-mole.
>>>
>>>I had to find the leak, or the whole ceiling would come down. The
>>>stuff that I cut out was all wet and soggy, getting mouldy, so may as
>>>well go. I'll get a drywall guy in here to repair all that, after/if
>>>ever I stop the leak.
>>
>>It's not worth making channels in the sheetrock.  Pull it down in neat
>>rectangles, spanning rafter to rafter.  If it's that bad, the whole
>>ceiling will have to come down anyway.
>
>I got the wet parts out... had to chase the stream halfway across the
>room to find the source. I'll let a sheetrock guy clean it up.

It's easier to take sheetrock down in sheets, or at least partial
sheets.  Less mess.  The home improvement channels all do it the hard
way (they never show how much work the cleanup is after their
elephants come through).

>My wife does *not* like the current look.

BT.  I had to chase a leak in a previous house.  Ended up being the
drain in the master tub.  It was intermittent so never leaked when I
was looking.  Someone had to be standing in the right (wrong?) place
in the tub for it to leak,
>
>The next plan is to squirt food coloring here and there around the
>outside of the chimney, in the rain, to see where the water is getting
>in.

Toilet paper works well, too.  If it's the chimney, don't screw around
with it.  Have the flashing ripped out and have it done right. Sealing
goop doesn't work.

On 2017-01-16, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 13:24:03 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
>
> This is our leak:
>
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/SF/Glen_Park/Leak.JPG
>
> I chased it all around the ceiling with a sabre saw, until I found the
> actual origin. It's around the chimney, maybe the flashing. It only
> leaks in high wind.
>
> Roofers are scarce around here lately.
>

I saw one leak, it didn't take much rain to provoke it, but the roof
looked perfect from above. New sheet roofs just don't leak.

So I go into the crawl pace above the ceiling and discover that the
roof looks fine above the wet spot. but the wet spot is at a join in
the steel channel that the plaster sheetinng is screwed to, so I back-trace
and find an air-conditioning plant with a dodgy U-trap on the
condensate tray outflow that would drip into the channel...

When it rained the relative humidity would go up and the plant would
produce enough condensate that it wouldn't evaporate before reaching
and soaking through the ceiling.

-- 
This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software

On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 18:19:21 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

>On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 07:42:15 -0800, John Larkin
><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 23:41:04 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 20:32:21 -0800, John Larkin
>>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 13:24:03 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>><...>
>>>
>>>>>Argh.  Time to patch the roof.  If you don't hear from me, I fell off
>>>>>the roof.
>>>>
>>>>Don't track that iccky black goo inside.
>>>>
>>>>This is our leak:
>>>>
>>>>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/SF/Glen_Park/Leak.JPG
>>>>
>>>>I chased it all around the ceiling with a sabre saw, until I found the
>>>>actual origin. It's around the chimney, maybe the flashing. It only
>>>>leaks in high wind.
>>>
>>>You start with roof penetrations.  Only after they're eliminated as
>>>sources of the leak do you rip up anything else.  Otherwise, you're
>>>just playing whack-a-mole.
>>
>>I had to find the leak, or the whole ceiling would come down. The
>>stuff that I cut out was all wet and soggy, getting mouldy, so may as
>>well go. I'll get a drywall guy in here to repair all that, after/if
>>ever I stop the leak.
>
>It's not worth making channels in the sheetrock.  Pull it down in neat
>rectangles, spanning rafter to rafter.  If it's that bad, the whole
>ceiling will have to come down anyway.

I got the wet parts out... had to chase the stream halfway across the
room to find the source. I'll let a sheetrock guy clean it up.

My wife does *not* like the current look.

The next plan is to squirt food coloring here and there around the
outside of the chimney, in the rain, to see where the water is getting
in.



-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 20:32:21 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

>What's an order of magnitude between friends?

On a log scale, not much.

>>Instead of a source of error, the changes in the field magically
>>become a precursor, thus purifying the data.

>Preshock?

More like mixing cause and effect.  It's much like observing an event
makes one suspect that they caused the event.  Also, coincidence does
not imply causation:
<http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations>
In this case, I find the correlation between Schumann resonances and
earthquakes rather improbable.  According to Google wisdom, Schumann
resonances are caused by atmospheric lightning.  Lightning bolts
deliver quite a bit of energy, possibly sufficient to trigger an
earthquake.  The changes in Schumann resonance signals appear before
the earthquake because of the differences in travel time through the
atmosphere versus through the ground.  At least, that's the way I read
between the lines and techno babble.  The problem is that lightning
bolt usually start on the ground and radiate upwards.  If there's any
delivery of kinetic energy from the bolt, it's to the clouds.  I also
don't see lightning bolts producing gigantic craters that would be
expected from a transfer of energy to the ground.

I should add "natural philosopher" to my resume.

>>Argh.  Time to patch the roof.  If you don't hear from me, I fell off
>>the roof.
>
>Don't track that iccky black goo inside.

I've been patching my 5 degree pitch (almost flat) roof for about 40
years.  Every year, it leaks.  Every year, I dump some more wet patch
on the roof trying to find the elusive leaks.  After 40 years of
trial, error, and refusing to accept expert advice, I believe that I
have successfully executed every possible mistake and have taken
precautions to avoid their repetition.

This year, I made an important discovery.  The edges of the roofing
material are not very well sealed and might sucking water into the
house between the roof, tar paper, and roll roofing.  I found this by
cleaning off the accumulated debris at the edge of the roof with a
garden hose for the first time, and finding a large puddle of water
inside the house.  I was under the mistaken impression that water does
not flow uphill, but apparently it will go uphill on a 5 degree slope.

Anyway, I'm accustomed to dealing with roofing tar, wet patch, and
emulsified latex for patching the roof, and the various protective
measures required to avoid transporting the inevitable mess from the
roof to the inside of the house.  I have my sacrificial worn tennis
shoes, my jeans with the black goo spots, a shirt with tar on the
cuffs, a jacket that tarred elbows, and a black hat that doesn't show
the tar spots.  I also wear neoprene gloves, knee pads, and safety
glasses.  All the aforementioned are now spotted, smeared, and
encrusted with tar.  When working at the edge of the roof, I place
some plastic film on the deck below, so that should I drop some tar, I
won't later step in it.  Of course, I shed everything that might have
tar on it before entering the house.

We'll know if it worked when it rains again in 2 days.

>This is our leak:
>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/SF/Glen_Park/Leak.JPG

Nice mess and looks expensive to fix.  Getting the paint to match
might be tricky.  My house has energy deficient open beam ceilings,
where there is no attic to hide the leaks and no ceiling to act as a
sponge.  Despite these alleged benefits, it's still a PITA to find the
source of the leak.  Water will enter in one place, move sideways to
the edge of the 3ft wide tar paper sheet, than then drip onto the most
expensive furniture.  The means the source of the leak on the roof is
within a 3ft radius of where it's dripping.

Incidentally, I've tried making my own roof moisture detector using a
cheap capacitance meter instead of buying one of these:
<http://www.iranalyzers.com/impedanceroof.htm>
<http://www.iranalyzers.com/roofing.htm>
It sorta worked, but only if the wood was thoroughly soaked.  Your
FLIR camera should also work at detecting wet areas.

>I chased it all around the ceiling with a sabre saw, until I found the
>actual origin. It's around the chimney, maybe the flashing. It only
>leaks in high wind.

A friend in the area had that problem with the part of the roof just
uphill from his chimney.  Despite 6" flashing, it was not properly
buried in wet patch.  The roofer used common roofing tar, which
hardened over the years and cracked.  When there are so many
dissimilar materials together in one place, things are going to move
around.  The wind blew the water partly under the flashing and
capillary action did the rest.  I was amazed at the large amount of
water that was transported into the house in this manner.  Easily
fixed by replacing all the flashing, and this time using wet patch,
which remains somewhat flexible.  You might also consider using white
elastometric goo designed to remain flexible such as:
<http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardner-5-Gal-Sta-Kool-780-Siliconized-Acrylic-White-Elastomeric-Roof-Coating-SK-7805/202057691>
When the weather improves, I'll probably dump a few gallons of the
stuff on my roof to see if it works.  My neighbor did half his flat
roof with the stuff (he ran out of money) and claims that it solved
his leaky skylight and chimney problems.

>Roofers are scarce around here lately.

Yep.  Storms do that.  That's one reason I like to do my own roofing.
(Another is that I'm cheap).

Good luck.

-- 
Jeff Liebermann     jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann     AE6KS    831-336-2558

On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 07:42:15 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 23:41:04 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 20:32:21 -0800, John Larkin
>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 13:24:03 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>><...>
>>
>>>>Argh.  Time to patch the roof.  If you don't hear from me, I fell off
>>>>the roof.
>>>
>>>Don't track that iccky black goo inside.
>>>
>>>This is our leak:
>>>
>>>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/SF/Glen_Park/Leak.JPG
>>>
>>>I chased it all around the ceiling with a sabre saw, until I found the
>>>actual origin. It's around the chimney, maybe the flashing. It only
>>>leaks in high wind.
>>
>>You start with roof penetrations.  Only after they're eliminated as
>>sources of the leak do you rip up anything else.  Otherwise, you're
>>just playing whack-a-mole.
>
>I had to find the leak, or the whole ceiling would come down. The
>stuff that I cut out was all wet and soggy, getting mouldy, so may as
>well go. I'll get a drywall guy in here to repair all that, after/if
>ever I stop the leak.

It's not worth making channels in the sheetrock.  Pull it down in neat
rectangles, spanning rafter to rafter.  If it's that bad, the whole
ceiling will have to come down anyway.
>>
>>>Roofers are scarce around here lately.
>>
>>Not surprising.  You might have to call someone back from Texas.  ;-)
>
>It doesn't rain here all summer, so the first good rain we get,
>everything leaks at once. All the roofers have to come back from their
>golf courses and country estates.

Or, from their new homes in Texas.

On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 23:41:04 -0500, krw@notreal.com wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 20:32:21 -0800, John Larkin
><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 13:24:03 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>wrote:
>>
><...>
>
>>>Argh.  Time to patch the roof.  If you don't hear from me, I fell off
>>>the roof.
>>
>>Don't track that iccky black goo inside.
>>
>>This is our leak:
>>
>>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/SF/Glen_Park/Leak.JPG
>>
>>I chased it all around the ceiling with a sabre saw, until I found the
>>actual origin. It's around the chimney, maybe the flashing. It only
>>leaks in high wind.
>
>You start with roof penetrations.  Only after they're eliminated as
>sources of the leak do you rip up anything else.  Otherwise, you're
>just playing whack-a-mole.

I had to find the leak, or the whole ceiling would come down. The
stuff that I cut out was all wet and soggy, getting mouldy, so may as
well go. I'll get a drywall guy in here to repair all that, after/if
ever I stop the leak.

>
>>Roofers are scarce around here lately.
>
>Not surprising.  You might have to call someone back from Texas.  ;-)

It doesn't rain here all summer, so the first good rain we get,
everything leaks at once. All the roofers have to come back from their
golf courses and country estates.




-- 

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

On 1/15/2017 11:33 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 18:27:54 +1100, Kevin Foster
> <kfoster@internode.com> wrote:
>
>> Could someone please tell me the correct way determine how many turns
>> are required on a coil with the following specs to obtain a resonant
>> frequency of 8 (eight) Hz?
>
> I can't answer your questions, but perhaps you can duplicate this
> loop:
> <http://www.vlf.it/inductor/inductor.htm>

And a dead link from the above page, showing the original coil 
construction, archived on the Wayback machine.

> http://web.archive.org/web/20021215033444/http://members.iinet.net.au/~ajbv/Magnetic/Magnet.html

                                     Mikek


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On 1/15/2017 11:33 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 18:27:54 +1100, Kevin Foster
> <kfoster@internode.com> wrote:
>
>> Could someone please tell me the correct way determine how many turns
>> are required on a coil with the following specs to obtain a resonant
>> frequency of 8 (eight) Hz?
>
> I can't answer your questions, but perhaps you can duplicate this
> loop:
> <http://www.vlf.it/inductor/inductor.htm>
> <https://basharspacetimeantenna.wordpress.com/2011/02/16/existing-devices-that-tap-into-schumann-resonance-frequencies/>
> The original site has evaporated, but I found this in the archives:
> <http://web.archive.org/web/20041204034025/http://wavelab.homestead.com/Schumanns.html>
>
> As I might misunderstand it, the fundamental is 7.8 Hz, with harmonics
> and oddities appear at 14, 20, 26, 33, 39, and 45 Hz.  If you tune
> your antenna to roughly the middle of range, and make sure your Q is
> *LESS* than:
>    f/BW = 15Hz / 45Hz = 0.33
> you should be able to pickup all the expected frequencies.  Here's an
> example of what I would guess happens with a magnetometer resonated to
> 7.8Hz:
> <http://sedonanomalies.weebly.com/uploads/5/9/0/0/5900617/9765740.jpg?513>
>
> I have my doubts about this construction because the loop is not
> appear to be shielded and therefore may pickup E field noise.
>
> After wading through the global consciousness rubbish,

What was the change in Global coherence data on 9-11?

                                           Mikek

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John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 09:33:46 -0800, Jeff Liebermann<jeffl@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 18:27:54 +1100, Kevin Foster
>> <kfoster@internode.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Could someone please tell me the correct way determine how many turns
>>> are required on a coil with the following specs to obtain a resonant
>>> frequency of 8 (eight) Hz?
>>
>> I can't answer your questions, but perhaps you can duplicate this
>> loop:
>> <http://www.vlf.it/inductor/inductor.htm>
>> <https://basharspacetimeantenna.wordpress.com/2011/02/16/existing-devices-that-tap-into-schumann-resonance-frequencies/>
>> The original site has evaporated, but I found this in the archives:
>> <http://web.archive.org/web/20041204034025/http://wavelab.homestead.com/Schumanns.html>
>>
>> As I might misunderstand it, the fundamental is 7.8 Hz, with harmonics
>> and oddities appear at 14, 20, 26, 33, 39, and 45 Hz.  If you tune
>> your antenna to roughly the middle of range, and make sure your Q is
>> *LESS* than:
>>    f/BW = 15Hz / 45Hz = 0.33
>> you should be able to pickup all the expected frequencies.  Here's an
>> example of what I would guess happens with a magnetometer resonated to
>> 7.8Hz:
>> <http://sedonanomalies.weebly.com/uploads/5/9/0/0/5900617/9765740.jpg?513>
>>
>> I have my doubts about this construction because the loop is not
>> appear to be shielded and therefore may pickup E field noise.
>>
>> After wading through the global consciousness rubbish, the Schumann
>> resonance monitors, which I've excavated with Google search, use a
>> magnetometer or induction coil:
>> <http://www.carisma.ca/backgrounder/carisma-induction-coils>
>> There are plenty examples of induction coils available, but little on
>> using loops:
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=schumann+resonance+induction+coil&tbm=isch>
>>
>> We have a local group that does Schumann resonance global conciousness
>> monitoring.  Time permitting, I could ask and see if they have any
>> information, but it appears that they're using other sources for their
>> data:
>> <https://www.heartmath.org/research/global-coherence/gcms-live-data/>
>
>
> Looks like amplitudes are all in arbitrary units!
>
> Natural Schumann fields are roughly 1e-8 lower than the earth's static
> magnetic field. So moving your head, walking, chewing, driving, your
> pulse, any motion, motion of nearby magnetic objects, will expose your
> body to relatively huge AC fields.
>
> Minute motion of pickup coils in the static field will induce signals
> bigger than the Schumann stuff. That could create some interesting
> mistakes, like correlating with earthquakes.
>
>
>
>
   Now you know why animals run away from earthquake nodes BEFORE the 
"Elvis Presley"..