Reply by Michael A. Terrell●May 14, 20092009-05-14
mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > I couldn't find any of my oldest RCA books, or I would have scanned
> > the ap note for you.
> >
> > I see a copy of SC11 for sale near here on ABE Books, but it is too
> > old. It first appeared in SC12 or SC13.
> >
> > It is about a half hour drive from here, and near a flea market i
> > haven't been to in almost 10 years. The store wants $5 for it, plus
> > local tax.
>
> Ah ok, I appreciate the efforts you are going to, to locate the
> article. Thank you. But please don't trouble yourself driving to
> search for the book on my behalf. I wouldn't want to inconvenience
> you.
>
> I was hoping to find something online by searching the Google patent
> literature with "RCA" as the assignee. And it may even be possible
> that my dad may have the data book, or a similar one. It's just not
> very often that I get to see him.
I drove down there this morning, to visit the flea market and ran
into a couple friends I hadn''t seen in ten years. The book store was a
couple miles further south, but they told me anything listed on Abe
books was kept at a separate location. It turned out ok, I found 20 old
science fiction books for my collection. It was a rough drive, but well
worth the trip. :)
I didn't know they were doing controlled burns in the forest, so
there was a lot of thick smoke in some places. :(
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
Reply by Eeyore●May 14, 20092009-05-14
mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> On May 13, 9:45 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > I couldn't find any of my oldest RCA books, or I would have scanned
> > the ap note for you.
> >
> > I see a copy of SC11 for sale near here on ABE Books, but it is too
> > old. It first appeared in SC12 or SC13.
> >
> > It is about a half hour drive from here, and near a flea market i
> > haven't been to in almost 10 years. The store wants $5 for it, plus
> > local tax.
>
> Ah ok, I appreciate the efforts you are going to, to locate the
> article. Thank you. But please don't trouble yourself driving to
> search for the book on my behalf. I wouldn't want to inconvenience
> you.
>
> I was hoping to find something online by searching the Google patent
> literature with "RCA" as the assignee. And it may even be possible
> that my dad may have the data book, or a similar one. It's just not
> very often that I get to see him.
Mulling over old designs has its interest in some ways but you'd do far beter to concentrate on newer technology
that's not impaired by old limitations of device fabrication issues etc.
Go to the Doug Self site for example.
Graham
Not terribly helpful I'm afraid.
Had I read Win's book ( The Art of Electronics ) I might recommend it. I have no idea if it has a specialist
audio section though ( hint Win ).
Graham
Reply by Eeyore●May 14, 20092009-05-14
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
> mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > And what is this RCA Data Book?
>
> RCA published a series of transistor dta books throungh the '60s &
> '70s. The basic circuit was published right after RCA released the
> 40411 output transistors used in that circuit. If you take a look, they
> run in consecutive type numbers, which indicates they were chosen for
> that application. Amps built with the RCA parts were good, for their
> time, but the clones often used other transistors and had problems. The
> 40411 was rated to 100 volts, which was a lot higher than most power
> transistors of that time.
True but shortly therafter RCA offered the 140V 2N3773 which with 4 devices could deliver ~ 200W into 8
ohms with a decently regulated supply.
That device ruled the roost for a long time.
Modern Toshiba ( and other ) audio output semis got to 230V or so. I well recall designing my first amp
with +/- 100V main rails.
Graham
Reply by ●May 14, 20092009-05-14
On May 13, 9:45=A0pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On May 13, 6:09 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
> > > mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On May 12, 9:43 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.ne=
t>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > > On May 11, 1:31 pm, stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > > > > On May 11, 8:30 am, mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:> On May 11, 8:=
16 am, stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > > > > > <snip>
> > > > > > > =A0> > Lots of good stuff here
>
> > > > > > > =A0> >http://sound.westhost.com/
>
> > > > > > > =A0> > G=B2
>
> > > > > > > =A0> Ah, thank you for the reply.
>
> > > > > > > =A0> One thing I noticed is, the larger amps on westhost.com =
(10W+) need
> > > > > > > =A0> split power supplies (+/-). =A0I'd like to start with so=
mething
> > > > > > > needing
> > > > > > > =A0> just 0V-6V or 0V-12V.
>
> > > > > > > =A0> Thanks again,
>
> > > > > > > =A0> Michael
>
> > > > > > > Well then perhaps this 'golden oldie' might be of interest.
>
> > > > > > >http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Dec1967/PE_Dec=
1967.htm
>
> > > > > > > G=B2
>
> > > > > > Thanks a bunch!
>
> > > > > > Michael
>
> > > > > =A0 =A0"The Brute 70" I built this one in high school. =A0I made =
my first PC
> > > > > boards for it. =A0They took the circuit from the RCA Data book an=
d drew up
> > > > > plans around them. =A0I saw a lot of early commercial solid state=
PA amps
> > > > > built from the same basic circuit. =A0Some had been ion daily use=
for 20
> > > > > years before they needed repairs. =A0The big change was the addit=
ion of a
> > > > > output transformer to match them to either a 25 or 70 volt line s=
>
> > > > Interesting. =A0Are Q6 and Q7 both supposed to be NPN?
>
> > > > And what is this RCA Data Book?
>
> > > =A0 =A0RCA published a series of transistor dta books throungh the '6=
0s &
> > > '70s. =A0The basic circuit was published right after RCA released the
> > > 40411 output transistors used in that circuit. =A0If you take a look,=
they
> > > run in consecutive type numbers, which indicates they were chosen for
> > > that application. =A0Amps built with the RCA parts were good, for the=
ir
> > > time, but the clones often used other transistors and had problems. =
>
> =A0 =A0All of those are dated in the '70s, and are newer that the data I =
was
> looking for, for you.
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Michael
>
> =A0 =A0I couldn't find any of my oldest RCA books, or I would have scanne=
d
> the ap note for you.
>
> =A0 =A0I see a copy of SC11 for sale near here on ABE Books, but it is to=
o
> old. =A0It first appeared in SC12 or SC13.
>
> =A0 =A0It is about a half hour drive from here, and near a flea market i
> haven't been to in almost 10 years. =A0The store wants $5 for it, plus
> local tax.
>
> --
> You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
Ah ok, I appreciate the efforts you are going to, to locate the
article. Thank you. But please don't trouble yourself driving to
search for the book on my behalf. I wouldn't want to inconvenience
you.
I was hoping to find something online by searching the Google patent
literature with "RCA" as the assignee. And it may even be possible
that my dad may have the data book, or a similar one. It's just not
very often that I get to see him.
Thanks,
Michael
Reply by Michael A. Terrell●May 14, 20092009-05-14
mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
>
> On May 13, 6:09 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> > mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > On May 12, 9:43 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> > > wrote:
> > > > mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > > > On May 11, 1:31 pm, stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > > > On May 11, 8:30 am, mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:> On May 11, 8:16 am, stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > > > > > <snip>
> > > > > > > > Lots of good stuff here
> >
> > > > > > > >http://sound.westhost.com/
> >
> > > > > > > > G�
> >
> > > > > > > Ah, thank you for the reply.
> >
> > > > > > > One thing I noticed is, the larger amps on westhost.com (10W+) need
> > > > > > > split power supplies (+/-). I'd like to start with something
> > > > > > needing
> > > > > > > just 0V-6V or 0V-12V.
> >
> > > > > > > Thanks again,
> >
> > > > > > > Michael
> >
> > > > > > Well then perhaps this 'golden oldie' might be of interest.
> >
> > > > > >http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Dec1967/PE_Dec1967.htm
> >
> > > > > > G�
> >
> > > > > Thanks a bunch!
> >
> > > > > Michael
> >
> > > > "The Brute 70" I built this one in high school. I made my first PC
> > > > boards for it. They took the circuit from the RCA Data book and drew up
> > > > plans around them. I saw a lot of early commercial solid state PA amps
> > > > built from the same basic circuit. Some had been ion daily use for 20
> > > > years before they needed repairs. The big change was the addition of a
> > > > output transformer to match them to either a 25 or 70 volt line speaker
> > > > system.
> >
> > > >http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Feb1967/PE_Feb1967.htm
> >
> > > Interesting. Are Q6 and Q7 both supposed to be NPN?
> >
> > > And what is this RCA Data Book?
> >
> > RCA published a series of transistor dta books throungh the '60s &
> > '70s. The basic circuit was published right after RCA released the
> > 40411 output transistors used in that circuit. If you take a look, they
> > run in consecutive type numbers, which indicates they were chosen for
> > that application. Amps built with the RCA parts were good, for their
> > time, but the clones often used other transistors and had problems. The
> > 40411 was rated to 100 volts, which was a lot higher than most power
> > transistors of that time.
> >
> > --
> > You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
>
> Well in lieu of having that nice data book, the free online patent
> literature gives this, among others:
>
> http://www.google.com/patents?id=yus8AAAAEBAJ
>
> from
> http://www.google.com/patents?lr=&q=audio+and+amplifier+inassignee:rca&scoring=2&sa=N&start=30
All of those are dated in the '70s, and are newer that the data I was
looking for, for you.
> Thanks,
>
> Michael
I couldn't find any of my oldest RCA books, or I would have scanned
the ap note for you.
I see a copy of SC11 for sale near here on ABE Books, but it is too
old. It first appeared in SC12 or SC13.
It is about a half hour drive from here, and near a flea market i
haven't been to in almost 10 years. The store wants $5 for it, plus
local tax.
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
Reply by ●May 14, 20092009-05-14
On May 13, 6:09=A0pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On May 12, 9:43 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
> > > mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On May 11, 1:31 pm, stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > > On May 11, 8:30 am, mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:> On May 11, 8:16 a=
m, stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > > =A0> > Lots of good stuff here
>
> > > > > =A0> >http://sound.westhost.com/
>
> > > > > =A0> > G=B2
>
> > > > > =A0> Ah, thank you for the reply.
>
> > > > > =A0> One thing I noticed is, the larger amps on westhost.com (10W=
+) need
> > > > > =A0> split power supplies (+/-). =A0I'd like to start with someth=
>
> > > > > G=B2
>
> > > > Thanks a bunch!
>
> > > > Michael
>
> > > =A0 =A0"The Brute 70" I built this one in high school. =A0I made my f=
irst PC
> > > boards for it. =A0They took the circuit from the RCA Data book and dr=
ew up
> > > plans around them. =A0I saw a lot of early commercial solid state PA =
amps
> > > built from the same basic circuit. =A0Some had been ion daily use for=
20
> > > years before they needed repairs. =A0The big change was the addition =
of a
> > > output transformer to match them to either a 25 or 70 volt line speak=
er
> > > system.
>
> > >http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Feb1967/PE_Feb1967.htm
>
> > Interesting. =A0Are Q6 and Q7 both supposed to be NPN?
>
> > And what is this RCA Data Book?
>
> =A0 =A0RCA published a series of transistor dta books throungh the '60s &
> '70s. =A0The basic circuit was published right after RCA released the
> 40411 output transistors used in that circuit. =A0If you take a look, the=
y
> run in consecutive type numbers, which indicates they were chosen for
> that application. =A0Amps built with the RCA parts were good, for their
> time, but the clones often used other transistors and had problems. =A0Th=
e
> 40411 was rated to 100 volts, which was a lot higher than most power
> transistors of that time.
>
> --
> You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
Reply by Michael A. Terrell●May 13, 20092009-05-13
mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
>
> On May 12, 9:43 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> > mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > > On May 11, 1:31 pm, stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > On May 11, 8:30 am, mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:> On May 11, 8:16 am, stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> > > > <snip>
> > > > > > Lots of good stuff here
> >
> > > > > >http://sound.westhost.com/
> >
> > > > > > G�
> >
> > > > > Ah, thank you for the reply.
> >
> > > > > One thing I noticed is, the larger amps on westhost.com (10W+) need
> > > > > split power supplies (+/-). I'd like to start with something
> > > > needing
> > > > > just 0V-6V or 0V-12V.
> >
> > > > > Thanks again,
> >
> > > > > Michael
> >
> > > > Well then perhaps this 'golden oldie' might be of interest.
> >
> > > >http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Dec1967/PE_Dec1967.htm
> >
> > > > G�
> >
> > > Thanks a bunch!
> >
> > > Michael
> >
> > "The Brute 70" I built this one in high school. I made my first PC
> > boards for it. They took the circuit from the RCA Data book and drew up
> > plans around them. I saw a lot of early commercial solid state PA amps
> > built from the same basic circuit. Some had been ion daily use for 20
> > years before they needed repairs. The big change was the addition of a
> > output transformer to match them to either a 25 or 70 volt line speaker
> > system.
> >
> > http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Feb1967/PE_Feb1967.htm
>
> Interesting. Are Q6 and Q7 both supposed to be NPN?
>
> And what is this RCA Data Book?
RCA published a series of transistor dta books throungh the '60s &
'70s. The basic circuit was published right after RCA released the
40411 output transistors used in that circuit. If you take a look, they
run in consecutive type numbers, which indicates they were chosen for
that application. Amps built with the RCA parts were good, for their
time, but the clones often used other transistors and had problems. The
40411 was rated to 100 volts, which was a lot higher than most power
transistors of that time.
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!
Reply by Eeyore●May 13, 20092009-05-13
stratus46@yahoo.com wrote:
> On May 12, 8:27 am, mrdarr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On May 12, 12:34 am, stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > On May 11, 8:00 pm, Jon Kirwan <j...@infinitefactors.org> wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 11 May 2009 13:31:51 -0700 (PDT), stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > >Well then perhaps this 'golden oldie' might be of interest.
> >
> > > > >http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Dec1967/PE_Dec1967.htm
> >
> > > > I remember it! There was a follow-up article with another version, as
> > > > I recall.
> >
> > > > Jon
> >
> > > You probably mean this
> >
> > >http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Jul1969/PE_Jul1969.htm
> >
> > > which I built in high school. It had an annoying tendency to blow the
> > > outputs. And this
> >
> > >http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Oct1970/PE_Oct1970.htm
> >
> > > and another family member
> >
> > >http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/PopularElectronics/Oct1971/PE_Oct_1971_P...
> >
> > > Enough of memory lane for now.
> >
> > All of those tended to fry your speakers?
> >
> > Michael
>
> The only units I built were the 2 Tiger amps running right at 60 volts
> power supply - I don't remember how far the supply drooped under load,
> it was 37 years ago. The finals would blow and take out the power
> supply fuse.
Did the output devices have inverse parallel diodes ?
Graham
Reply by Eeyore●May 13, 20092009-05-13
pimpom wrote:
> mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Interesting. Are Q6 and Q7 both supposed to be NPN?
> >
> Yes. Those were times when high-power silicon PNP transistors were not
> easily available. The arrangement was sometimes called a quasi-complementary
> circuit because it's not a true symmetrical NPN-PNP complementary circuit. I
> don't know if RCA invented the circuit, but it was they who made it popular.
> The circuit was presented in the 1968 edition of RCA Transistor Manual, one
> of the first reference books I owned.
>
> > And what is this RCA Data Book?
>
> Mike is probably talking about the same book.
I have it too. It was a poor transitional phase to pure complmentary output
stages. The method lasted some time though.
Graham