Reply by Fishface May 27, 20162016-05-27
Jim Thompson wrote:

> I drive my pick-em-up truck every few months.
> So the battery is dead when I go to use it... like today :-(
> I'm looking for recommendations for the _best_ (*) float charger I can > buy to just plug the truck into when it's parked.
> (*) Cost no object.
Sorry, I'm a little late to the party. BatteryMINDer gets my vote.
Reply by John S April 3, 20162016-04-03
On 4/2/2016 9:09 PM, Jim Thompson wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 21:48:50 -0400, Martin Riddle > <martin_ridd@verizon.net> wrote: > >> On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 11:00:44 -0700, Jim Thompson >> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:57:34 +0200, Glenn <glenn2233@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Den 30/03/2016 kl. 22.07 skrev Jim Thompson: >>>>> I drive my pick-em-up truck every few months. >>>>> >>>>> So the battery is dead when I go to use it... like today :-( >>>>> >>>>> I'm looking for recommendations for the _best_ (*) float charger I can >>>>> buy to just plug the truck into when it's parked. >>>>> >>>>> (*) Cost no object. >>>>> >>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>> >>>> >>>> The best charger is this: >>>> >>>> CTEK Battery Chargers Are Trusted by Top Brands: >>>> http://smartercharger.com/ >>>> >>> >>> [snip] >>> >>> Since I know battery charging temperature behavior rather well (see my >>> patents), maybe I should just roll my own with 100mA capability ;-) >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >> >> Just go the solar panel route. >> My Moms car is a candidate, so I just ordered a 2.4W Schumacher. >> I'll see how that turns out, it's on the north side of the house and >> dosent get much sun in the winter so I might have to go back to >> running it once a month. >> >> Cheers > > I generally avoid anything that "smells leftist", but Arizona doesn't > do daylight-savings because we have enough sun already... so maybe > I'll try that out ;-) > > ...Jim Thompson >
Yeah, they left the "d" out of Aridzona.
Reply by Martin Riddle April 3, 20162016-04-03
On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 19:09:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 21:48:50 -0400, Martin Riddle ><martin_ridd@verizon.net> wrote: > >>On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 11:00:44 -0700, Jim Thompson >><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: >> >>>On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:57:34 +0200, Glenn <glenn2233@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>Den 30/03/2016 kl. 22.07 skrev Jim Thompson: >>>>> I drive my pick-em-up truck every few months. >>>>> >>>>> So the battery is dead when I go to use it... like today :-( >>>>> >>>>> I'm looking for recommendations for the _best_ (*) float charger I can >>>>> buy to just plug the truck into when it's parked. >>>>> >>>>> (*) Cost no object. >>>>> >>>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>>> >>>> >>>>The best charger is this: >>>> >>>>CTEK Battery Chargers Are Trusted by Top Brands: >>>>http://smartercharger.com/ >>>> >>> >>>[snip] >>> >>>Since I know battery charging temperature behavior rather well (see my >>>patents), maybe I should just roll my own with 100mA capability ;-) >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >> >>Just go the solar panel route. >>My Moms car is a candidate, so I just ordered a 2.4W Schumacher. >>I'll see how that turns out, it's on the north side of the house and >>dosent get much sun in the winter so I might have to go back to >>running it once a month. >> >>Cheers > >I generally avoid anything that "smells leftist", but Arizona doesn't >do daylight-savings because we have enough sun already... so maybe >I'll try that out ;-) > > ...Jim Thompson
Well, that free 1 hour of sunlight dosen't do much up here. ;D Cheers
Reply by Jim Thompson April 2, 20162016-04-02
On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 21:48:50 -0400, Martin Riddle
<martin_ridd@verizon.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 11:00:44 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:57:34 +0200, Glenn <glenn2233@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>Den 30/03/2016 kl. 22.07 skrev Jim Thompson: >>>> I drive my pick-em-up truck every few months. >>>> >>>> So the battery is dead when I go to use it... like today :-( >>>> >>>> I'm looking for recommendations for the _best_ (*) float charger I can >>>> buy to just plug the truck into when it's parked. >>>> >>>> (*) Cost no object. >>>> >>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>> >>> >>>The best charger is this: >>> >>>CTEK Battery Chargers Are Trusted by Top Brands: >>>http://smartercharger.com/ >>> >> >>[snip] >> >>Since I know battery charging temperature behavior rather well (see my >>patents), maybe I should just roll my own with 100mA capability ;-) >> >> ...Jim Thompson > >Just go the solar panel route. >My Moms car is a candidate, so I just ordered a 2.4W Schumacher. >I'll see how that turns out, it's on the north side of the house and >dosent get much sun in the winter so I might have to go back to >running it once a month. > >Cheers
I generally avoid anything that "smells leftist", but Arizona doesn't do daylight-savings because we have enough sun already... so maybe I'll try that out ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | The touchstone of liberalism is intolerance
Reply by Martin Riddle April 2, 20162016-04-02
On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 11:00:44 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:57:34 +0200, Glenn <glenn2233@gmail.com> wrote: > >>Den 30/03/2016 kl. 22.07 skrev Jim Thompson: >>> I drive my pick-em-up truck every few months. >>> >>> So the battery is dead when I go to use it... like today :-( >>> >>> I'm looking for recommendations for the _best_ (*) float charger I can >>> buy to just plug the truck into when it's parked. >>> >>> (*) Cost no object. >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >>> >> >>The best charger is this: >> >>CTEK Battery Chargers Are Trusted by Top Brands: >>http://smartercharger.com/ >> > >[snip] > >Since I know battery charging temperature behavior rather well (see my >patents), maybe I should just roll my own with 100mA capability ;-) > > ...Jim Thompson
Just go the solar panel route. My Moms car is a candidate, so I just ordered a 2.4W Schumacher. I'll see how that turns out, it's on the north side of the house and dosent get much sun in the winter so I might have to go back to running it once a month. Cheers
Reply by John Larkin April 2, 20162016-04-02
On Sun, 3 Apr 2016 03:10:11 +1000, Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>
wrote:

>On 03/04/16 02:16, John Larkin wrote: >> On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 09:12:34 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" >> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> John Larkin wrote: >>>> >>>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 17:12:23 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" >>>> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 04:13:17 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" >>>>>> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My truck sat over five months, while I tracked down some parts. >>>>>>> Needless to say, the battery was run down when I finished the repairs. >>>>>>> The dumbass charger wouldn't detect the battery, so I fired up the lawn >>>>>>> tractor and let it charge the truck's battery. >>>>>> >>>>>> Many modern electronic chargers will not put current into a dead >>>>>> battery. I suspect it's part of a scam; car parts places sell you such >>>>>> a charger, it doesn't work, you come back, and they sell you a new >>>>>> battery. >>>>>> >>>>>> I keep a cheap bench power supply at home and another one up at the >>>>>> cabin. It's good for all sorts of stuff. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I blame lawyers, for tying to protect a few idiots from themselves. >>>> >>>> There's nothing hazardous about charging a zero-volt car battery. And >>>> contrary to the opinion of the experts at Cragan Auto Parts, a >>>> zero-volt battery is not permanently dead. >>>> >>>> I returned the stupid charger and got my money back. I found an old >>>> DSL wall-wart and put a belt sander in series to keep it from frying, >>>> ran that for a few hours, and it started up. Now I keep a power supply >>>> around. >>> >>> >>> It isn't designed for zero volts detection. It is designed to prevent >>> some fool from connecting it backwards, and causing the battery to boil >>> over or even explode. Have you ever seen the damage cause by a battery >>> explosion under the hood of a car? I have. You can't flush all of the >>> acid out, so over time it cause a lot of rust, and it weakens the steel, >>> if it is in contact for very long. >>> >>> Early car battery chargers were just a light bulb in series with a >>> rectifier that was lugged into a 110 volt outlet. No protection from >>> electrocution, at all. They were quickly removed from the market, >>> because they caused a lot of battery damage, and injured enough people >>> to be declared unsafe. My battery charger is home brewed. I bought a new >>> surplus battery eliminator for motorhome, and a 10A variac. I mounted >>> them into the aluminum case that was from a scrapped W.W.II RADAR >>> receiver. I built it while I was in in high school, and it is still >>> working, over 45 years later. I can set it to any initial charge >>> current, and I can plug it into a timer if I won't be right there while >>> it charges. It isn't pretty, but it is very reliable. >> >> The parts-store electronic chargers are switchmode and reverse >> protected. And current limited. And won't put current into a dead >> battery. That has to be by design, which could be deliberate design or >> very stupid design. > >The design I built (from a kit, into a standard Arlec 4A charger) >doesn't activate the charger until it sees some voltage on the output >(from the battery). I forget how it does that, but I recall it was quite >a cleverly simple design. I have the schematic on paper somewhere.
That's not a feature, it's a bug. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
Reply by krw April 2, 20162016-04-02
On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:57:34 +0200, Glenn <glenn2233@gmail.com> wrote:

>Den 30/03/2016 kl. 22.07 skrev Jim Thompson: >> I drive my pick-em-up truck every few months. >> >> So the battery is dead when I go to use it... like today :-( >> >> I'm looking for recommendations for the _best_ (*) float charger I can >> buy to just plug the truck into when it's parked. >> >> (*) Cost no object. >> >> ...Jim Thompson >> > >The best charger is this: > >CTEK Battery Chargers Are Trusted by Top Brands: >http://smartercharger.com/ > >- > >But be very careful when connecting a power source to your car. The car >electronics do not like power glitches.
Automotive power is about the glitchiest power you can find. Car electronics is quite well protected.
> >The foreign accumulator should be activated "slowly with e.g. Power MOSFETs. > >How about a home made Jumpstart accumulator consisting of four M1A 3,2Ah >A123system cells with heavy duty wires and connectors?: > >A123 Worlds Smallest VS. "Strongest" 12V Jumpstart battery: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcvmvrmTMMk > > >- > >"Wrong question?" > >Choose LiFePO4-accumulators instead with UnderVoltage-cut-off - I admit >that they are expensive: > >Mar 24, 2014, NEC to buy A123 battery systems unit from China's Wanxiang: >http://www.reuters.com/article/nec-wanxiang-a-idUST9N0MD00820140324 > >60Ah: >http://www.a123systems.com/lithium-starter-battery.htm >http://www.a123systems.com/collateral/documents/english-us/a123-12v-starter-battery.pdf >https://web.archive.org/web/20150501002319/http://www.a123systems.com/collateral/documents/english-us/a123-12v-starter-battery.pdf > >Bases in USA: >http://www.a123systems.com/about-us-locations.htm > >A123Systems - this is for the M1-cell: >http://www.rc-netbutik.dk/getdoc.asp?id=100&md5hash=9810C237586CF6B4325753101E37DAE1 >Quote: "...Curent test projecting excellent calendar life: 17% impedance >growth and 23% capacity loss in 15 [fifteen!] years at 100% SOC, 60 deg. >C..." > > >September 2008, Phenomenal positive revealing Sandia-test: >http://www.lifebatt.com/sandiareport.pdf >Quote: "... >Test results have indicated that the LiFeBatt battery technology can >function up to a 10C discharge rate with minimal energy loss compared to >the 1 h discharged rate (1C). >... >The majority of the capacity loss occurred during the initial [!] 2,000 >cycles, so it is projected that the LiFeBatt should PSOC cycle well >beyond 8,394 cycles with less than 20% capacity loss. >..." >http://www.lifebatt.com/sandiareport.pdf >Quote: "... >[See graph pdf-page 23] >[ Read: 48% capacity availably at -30&#2013266096;C. ] >[ Read: 65% capacity availably at -20&#2013266096;C. ] >[ Read: 74% capacity availably at 0&#2013266096;C. ] >..." > > >PERFORMANCE OF PHOSPHATE LITHIUM-ION BATTERIES IN MOTIVE APPLICATIONS >http://www.battcon.com/PapersFinal2005/NguyenPaper2005.pdf >Quote: "... >On the other hand, a common high capacity rated cobalt lithium-ion cell >is unable to maintain anywhere close to its original capacity. The >cobalt lithium-ion cell may start out at a higher capacity, but it >quickly loses its capacity after several cycles. However, the phosphate >lithium-ion cell is able to continue cycling well and maintaining its >capacity. >... >Current test data on a cell level shows an expected 2000 cycles to 80% >of original capacity...The battery can now match or exceed the life >expectancy of the electric vehicle itself. >..." >http://www.battcon.com/ArchivePapers.htm > >LiFePO4-accumulators are secure compared to standard Li-ion: > >Nail penetration testing A123 Li-ion: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb_J2QQ0k-4 > > >September 21, 2008, LiFePO4 Batteries: A Breakthrough For Electric Vehicles: >http://www.metaefficient.com/rechargeable-batteries/innovative-lifepo4-batteries-electric-vehicles.html >Quote: "... >Here&#2013266066;s a list of all the advantages of LiFePo4 batteries: > * Safe technology &#2013266071; will not catch fire or explode with overcharge >... > * Does not suffer from &#2013266067;thermal runaway&#2013266068; > * Can be used safely in high ambient temperatures of up to 60C >[Celsius] without any degradation in performance >... > * Can be safely rapidly recharged &#2013266071; when fully discharged can be >brought to a state of over 90% fully charged in 15 minutes >..." > >- > >Standard Li-Ion: > >Exploding Laptops on Good Morning America: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvTRKKS0wpo > >Nail penetration testing Standard Li-ion: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f30fBFitkSM > >Modify Li-Po Battery Nail Penetration Test: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vdOC8dN3_I > >Lithium Polymer Battery Explosion's (liposack): >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3o_2mwRPdw > >- > >Lead-acid accumulators are not designed to be used: > >Standard lead-acid accumulators works for 50-100 full cycles: >http://www.electricrider.com/batteries/index.htm >Quote: "... >The cycle life of sealed lead-acid is directly related to the depth of >discharge. The typical number of discharge/charge cycles at 25&#2013266096;C (77&#2013266096;F) >with respect to the depth of discharge is: > >* 50 - 100 cycles with 100% depth of discharge (full discharge) >* 150 - 250 cycles with 70% depth of discharge (deep discharge) >* 300 - 500 cycles with 50% depth of discharge (partial discharge) >* 800 and more cycles with 30% depth of discharge (shallow discharge) >[three years?] >..." > >- > >Have not seen these LiFePO4-accumulators yet: > >11 March 2009 Lithium batteries charge ahead. >Researchers demonstrate cells that can power up in seconds: >http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090311/full/news.2009.156.html?s=news_rss >Quote: "... >That seemed to be the case for lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4), a >material that is used in the cathode of a small number of commercial >batteries. But when Ceder and Kang did some calculations, they saw that >the compound could theoretically do much better. Its crystal structure >creates "perfectly sized tunnels for lithium to move through", says >Ceder. "We saw that we could reach ridiculously fast charging rates." >... >The authors helped the ions by coating the surface of the cathode with a >thin layer of lithium phosphate glass, which is known to be an excellent >lithium conductor. Testing their newly-coated cathode, they found that >they could charge and discharge it in as little as 9 seconds. >..." > >br, > >Glenn
Reply by krw April 2, 20162016-04-02
On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 08:16:06 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 02 Apr 2016 09:12:34 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" ><mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote: > >> >>John Larkin wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 17:12:23 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" >>> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote: >>> >>> > >>> >John Larkin wrote: >>> >> >>> >> On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 04:13:17 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell" >>> >> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > My truck sat over five months, while I tracked down some parts. >>> >> >Needless to say, the battery was run down when I finished the repairs. >>> >> >The dumbass charger wouldn't detect the battery, so I fired up the lawn >>> >> >tractor and let it charge the truck's battery. >>> >> >>> >> Many modern electronic chargers will not put current into a dead >>> >> battery. I suspect it's part of a scam; car parts places sell you such >>> >> a charger, it doesn't work, you come back, and they sell you a new >>> >> battery. >>> >> >>> >> I keep a cheap bench power supply at home and another one up at the >>> >> cabin. It's good for all sorts of stuff. >>> > >>> > >>> > I blame lawyers, for tying to protect a few idiots from themselves. >>> >>> There's nothing hazardous about charging a zero-volt car battery. And >>> contrary to the opinion of the experts at Cragan Auto Parts, a >>> zero-volt battery is not permanently dead. >>> >>> I returned the stupid charger and got my money back. I found an old >>> DSL wall-wart and put a belt sander in series to keep it from frying, >>> ran that for a few hours, and it started up. Now I keep a power supply >>> around. >> >> >> It isn't designed for zero volts detection. It is designed to prevent >>some fool from connecting it backwards, and causing the battery to boil >>over or even explode. Have you ever seen the damage cause by a battery >>explosion under the hood of a car? I have. You can't flush all of the >>acid out, so over time it cause a lot of rust, and it weakens the steel, >>if it is in contact for very long. >> >> Early car battery chargers were just a light bulb in series with a >>rectifier that was lugged into a 110 volt outlet. No protection from >>electrocution, at all. They were quickly removed from the market, >>because they caused a lot of battery damage, and injured enough people >>to be declared unsafe. My battery charger is home brewed. I bought a new >>surplus battery eliminator for motorhome, and a 10A variac. I mounted >>them into the aluminum case that was from a scrapped W.W.II RADAR >>receiver. I built it while I was in in high school, and it is still >>working, over 45 years later. I can set it to any initial charge >>current, and I can plug it into a timer if I won't be right there while >>it charges. It isn't pretty, but it is very reliable. > >The parts-store electronic chargers are switchmode and reverse >protected. And current limited. And won't put current into a dead >battery. That has to be by design, which could be deliberate design or >very stupid design.
I think it's deliberate, so you can't hurt yourself by shorting the thing - lawyers, and all that. It can be quite annoying.
Reply by Lasse Langwadt Christensen April 2, 20162016-04-02
Den l&#2013266168;rdag den 2. april 2016 kl. 20.00.49 UTC+2 skrev Jim Thompson:
> On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:57:34 +0200, Glenn <glenn2233@gmail.com> wrote: > > >Den 30/03/2016 kl. 22.07 skrev Jim Thompson: > >> I drive my pick-em-up truck every few months. > >> > >> So the battery is dead when I go to use it... like today :-( > >> > >> I'm looking for recommendations for the _best_ (*) float charger I can > >> buy to just plug the truck into when it's parked. > >> > >> (*) Cost no object. > >> > >> ...Jim Thompson > >> > > > >The best charger is this: > > > >CTEK Battery Chargers Are Trusted by Top Brands: > >http://smartercharger.com/ > > > > [snip] > > Since I know battery charging temperature behavior rather well (see my > patents), maybe I should just roll my own with 100mA capability ;-) >
http://www.ti.com/product/UC2906 plus a transistor and a few resistors, it comes in DIP so it would be quick to do on a stripboard feed it from an old laptop charger, they are commonly 19V -Lasse
Reply by Glenn April 2, 20162016-04-02
Den 02/04/2016 kl. 20.00 skrev Jim Thompson:
> On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:57:34 +0200, Glenn <glenn2233@gmail.com> wrote:
...
>> The best charger is this: >> >> CTEK Battery Chargers Are Trusted by Top Brands: >> http://smartercharger.com/ >> > > [snip] > > Since I know battery charging temperature behavior rather well (see my > patents), maybe I should just roll my own with 100mA capability ;-) > > ...Jim Thompson >
Please note that the charger tests your battery and signals if it is faulty - even when the battery is car connected. Lead-acid fails from time to time. The charger is reverse polarity protected [ idiot proof :-) ]: http://smartercharger.com/battery-chargers/#CTEK%20Multi%20US%204.3 Quote: "... The charger can solve a broad range of battery-related problems and is the perfect charger for those with high demands. The MUS 4.3 offers features such as battery diagnosis that shows if a battery can receive and retain a charge, a special reconditioning function that restores stratified and deeply discharged batteries, unique maintenance charging, a mode for optimized charging during cold winter days and the charging of demanding AGM batteries (i.e. Optima). The unique display allows the user to follow the entire charging process. ... The MUS 4.3 is a fully automatic 8-step charger that delivers selectable 0.8 A or 4.3 A to 12 V batteries from 1.2&#2013266070;110 Ah and is suitable for maintenance charging up to 160 Ah. The charger is splash and dust proof, designed to protect vehicle electronics and non-sparking, reverse polarity protected and short-circuit proof. It is delivered with a 5-year warranty. ... * Recondition of deep discharged batteries * Patented desulphation that extends the battery life ..." - Please note: I have no shares in CTEK - yet... Glenn