Reply by Joerg ●March 24, 20152015-03-24
On 2015-03-23 5:50 PM, krw@zzz.com wrote:

> On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 09:22:15 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-03-22 9:47 AM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>>> On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 07:34:01 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2015-03-21 4:21 PM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 16:01:54 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2015-03-21 3:50 PM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 12:29:37 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2015-03-21 8:48 AM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 07:52:02 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Get a ton of exercise, don't smoke, don't eat bad stuff and you might
>>>>>>>>>> never need this done. But for some people the conditions are heredetary,
>>>>>>>>>> not much they can do about it. A friend of ours just got a whole new
>>>>>>>>>> heart valve delivered and installed with such a procedure. They didn't
>>>>>>>>>> have to crack his chest for open heart surgery, a procedure he might not
>>>>>>>>>> have survived due to other medical conditions.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pretty much a genes thing.  My brother had a couple of stents a week
>>>>>>>>> before I had the catheterization/  He, too, should have had a triple
>>>>>>>>> bypass but they blew it so he'll have to wait a year for the surgery.
>>>>>>>>> Another brother died of sudden death syndrome.  He was the one who was
>>>>>>>>> anal about all the exercise and diet stuff.  He swam two miles three
>>>>>>>>> times a week and did a couple of hours at the gym 7 days. Didn't help.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But it still does other things. I bet he feels really good after
>>>>>>>> exercise. When I came home from a 36mi hard mountain bike ride yesterday
>>>>>>>> night I felt like a Viking warrior on a horse.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Drugs do the same thing, in the same way.  Dopamine, Serotonin, and
>>>>>>> Endorphins.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But with exercise it only happens after reaching a certain endurance
>>>>>> level. When I started intense biking 1-1/2 years ago I was huffing and
>>>>>> puffing after 15 mile of hills and my only thought was "Get me off of
>>>>>> this bike!". Now it's different.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure that it matters.  The drugs and effects are the same.  If you
>>>>> don't exercise for several days, you'll have withdrawal symptoms, too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do. That is because it isn't the endorphins, it's the experience. On
>>>> Friday I used my mountain bike to go to Placerville, a 36mi ride and
>>>> often through gnarly terrain. I met many horses, dogs, had a fox travel
>>>> in front of me on the trail for a while, saw beautiful birds, pretty
>>>> flowers, a few chats with ranchers. Then there is the experience of
>>>> achievement. For example, for the first time ever I was able to hammer
>>>> up a particular uphill stretch staying in the pedals. I and almost
>>>> anyone I know used to walk the last part of it.
>>>
>>> You're wrong.  It's the drugs.
>>>
>>>>> Drugs don't addict the user on first use, either.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Because they can't give you any of the above.
>>>
>>> Wrong again.  It's *exactly* the same process.  Your brain likes the
>>> endorphins, no matter how you get them (whether it be dope, exercise,
>>> or chocolates).
>>>
>>
>> Nope. For me it's mostly the memories of the last ride. For example, I
>> do not net much fun out of a tough ride along one of the main county
>> roads here and there isn't much of an "endorphin high" afterwards. But
>> when coming back from a similarly strenuous trail ride it's completely
>> different. I feel good and can't wait to go back there. This is because
>> of the whole experience and has little to do with body-produced substances.
>
> Where do you think those happy thoughts came from?  You're ADDICTED!
> ;-)
>


It's probably from the Strong Blonde Ale, Guinness or Hefeweizen at an 
outdoor pub on the way back.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●March 23, 20152015-03-23
On Mon, 23 Mar 2015 09:22:15 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:


>On 2015-03-22 9:47 AM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 07:34:01 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2015-03-21 4:21 PM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 16:01:54 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2015-03-21 3:50 PM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 12:29:37 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2015-03-21 8:48 AM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 07:52:02 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Get a ton of exercise, don't smoke, don't eat bad stuff and you might
>>>>>>>>> never need this done. But for some people the conditions are heredetary,
>>>>>>>>> not much they can do about it. A friend of ours just got a whole new
>>>>>>>>> heart valve delivered and installed with such a procedure. They didn't
>>>>>>>>> have to crack his chest for open heart surgery, a procedure he might not
>>>>>>>>> have survived due to other medical conditions.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pretty much a genes thing.  My brother had a couple of stents a week
>>>>>>>> before I had the catheterization/  He, too, should have had a triple
>>>>>>>> bypass but they blew it so he'll have to wait a year for the surgery.
>>>>>>>> Another brother died of sudden death syndrome.  He was the one who was
>>>>>>>> anal about all the exercise and diet stuff.  He swam two miles three
>>>>>>>> times a week and did a couple of hours at the gym 7 days. Didn't help.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But it still does other things. I bet he feels really good after
>>>>>>> exercise. When I came home from a 36mi hard mountain bike ride yesterday
>>>>>>> night I felt like a Viking warrior on a horse.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Drugs do the same thing, in the same way.  Dopamine, Serotonin, and
>>>>>> Endorphins.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But with exercise it only happens after reaching a certain endurance
>>>>> level. When I started intense biking 1-1/2 years ago I was huffing and
>>>>> puffing after 15 mile of hills and my only thought was "Get me off of
>>>>> this bike!". Now it's different.
>>>>>
>>>> Not sure that it matters.  The drugs and effects are the same.  If you
>>>> don't exercise for several days, you'll have withdrawal symptoms, too.
>>>
>>>
>>> I do. That is because it isn't the endorphins, it's the experience. On
>>> Friday I used my mountain bike to go to Placerville, a 36mi ride and
>>> often through gnarly terrain. I met many horses, dogs, had a fox travel
>>> in front of me on the trail for a while, saw beautiful birds, pretty
>>> flowers, a few chats with ranchers. Then there is the experience of
>>> achievement. For example, for the first time ever I was able to hammer
>>> up a particular uphill stretch staying in the pedals. I and almost
>>> anyone I know used to walk the last part of it.
>>
>> You're wrong.  It's the drugs.
>>
>>>> Drugs don't addict the user on first use, either.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Because they can't give you any of the above.
>>
>> Wrong again.  It's *exactly* the same process.  Your brain likes the
>> endorphins, no matter how you get them (whether it be dope, exercise,
>> or chocolates).
>>
>
>Nope. For me it's mostly the memories of the last ride. For example, I 
>do not net much fun out of a tough ride along one of the main county 
>roads here and there isn't much of an "endorphin high" afterwards. But 
>when coming back from a similarly strenuous trail ride it's completely 
>different. I feel good and can't wait to go back there. This is because 
>of the whole experience and has little to do with body-produced substances.


Where do you think those happy thoughts came from?  You're ADDICTED!
;-)
Reply by Joerg ●March 23, 20152015-03-23
On 2015-03-22 9:47 AM, krw@zzz.com wrote:

> On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 07:34:01 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-03-21 4:21 PM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 16:01:54 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2015-03-21 3:50 PM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 12:29:37 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2015-03-21 8:48 AM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 07:52:02 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Get a ton of exercise, don't smoke, don't eat bad stuff and you might
>>>>>>>> never need this done. But for some people the conditions are heredetary,
>>>>>>>> not much they can do about it. A friend of ours just got a whole new
>>>>>>>> heart valve delivered and installed with such a procedure. They didn't
>>>>>>>> have to crack his chest for open heart surgery, a procedure he might not
>>>>>>>> have survived due to other medical conditions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pretty much a genes thing.  My brother had a couple of stents a week
>>>>>>> before I had the catheterization/  He, too, should have had a triple
>>>>>>> bypass but they blew it so he'll have to wait a year for the surgery.
>>>>>>> Another brother died of sudden death syndrome.  He was the one who was
>>>>>>> anal about all the exercise and diet stuff.  He swam two miles three
>>>>>>> times a week and did a couple of hours at the gym 7 days. Didn't help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But it still does other things. I bet he feels really good after
>>>>>> exercise. When I came home from a 36mi hard mountain bike ride yesterday
>>>>>> night I felt like a Viking warrior on a horse.
>>>>>
>>>>> Drugs do the same thing, in the same way.  Dopamine, Serotonin, and
>>>>> Endorphins.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But with exercise it only happens after reaching a certain endurance
>>>> level. When I started intense biking 1-1/2 years ago I was huffing and
>>>> puffing after 15 mile of hills and my only thought was "Get me off of
>>>> this bike!". Now it's different.
>>>>
>>> Not sure that it matters.  The drugs and effects are the same.  If you
>>> don't exercise for several days, you'll have withdrawal symptoms, too.
>>
>>
>> I do. That is because it isn't the endorphins, it's the experience. On
>> Friday I used my mountain bike to go to Placerville, a 36mi ride and
>> often through gnarly terrain. I met many horses, dogs, had a fox travel
>> in front of me on the trail for a while, saw beautiful birds, pretty
>> flowers, a few chats with ranchers. Then there is the experience of
>> achievement. For example, for the first time ever I was able to hammer
>> up a particular uphill stretch staying in the pedals. I and almost
>> anyone I know used to walk the last part of it.
>
> You're wrong.  It's the drugs.
>
>>> Drugs don't addict the user on first use, either.
>>>
>>
>> Because they can't give you any of the above.
>
> Wrong again.  It's *exactly* the same process.  Your brain likes the
> endorphins, no matter how you get them (whether it be dope, exercise,
> or chocolates).
>


Nope. For me it's mostly the memories of the last ride. For example, I 
do not net much fun out of a tough ride along one of the main county 
roads here and there isn't much of an "endorphin high" afterwards. But 
when coming back from a similarly strenuous trail ride it's completely 
different. I feel good and can't wait to go back there. This is because 
of the whole experience and has little to do with body-produced substances.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by ●March 22, 20152015-03-22
On Sun, 22 Mar 2015 07:34:01 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:


>On 2015-03-21 4:21 PM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 16:01:54 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2015-03-21 3:50 PM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 12:29:37 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2015-03-21 8:48 AM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 07:52:02 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>>>>> Get a ton of exercise, don't smoke, don't eat bad stuff and you might
>>>>>>> never need this done. But for some people the conditions are heredetary,
>>>>>>> not much they can do about it. A friend of ours just got a whole new
>>>>>>> heart valve delivered and installed with such a procedure. They didn't
>>>>>>> have to crack his chest for open heart surgery, a procedure he might not
>>>>>>> have survived due to other medical conditions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pretty much a genes thing.  My brother had a couple of stents a week
>>>>>> before I had the catheterization/  He, too, should have had a triple
>>>>>> bypass but they blew it so he'll have to wait a year for the surgery.
>>>>>> Another brother died of sudden death syndrome.  He was the one who was
>>>>>> anal about all the exercise and diet stuff.  He swam two miles three
>>>>>> times a week and did a couple of hours at the gym 7 days. Didn't help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But it still does other things. I bet he feels really good after
>>>>> exercise. When I came home from a 36mi hard mountain bike ride yesterday
>>>>> night I felt like a Viking warrior on a horse.
>>>>
>>>> Drugs do the same thing, in the same way.  Dopamine, Serotonin, and
>>>> Endorphins.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But with exercise it only happens after reaching a certain endurance
>>> level. When I started intense biking 1-1/2 years ago I was huffing and
>>> puffing after 15 mile of hills and my only thought was "Get me off of
>>> this bike!". Now it's different.
>>>
>> Not sure that it matters.  The drugs and effects are the same.  If you
>> don't exercise for several days, you'll have withdrawal symptoms, too.
>
>
>I do. That is because it isn't the endorphins, it's the experience. On 
>Friday I used my mountain bike to go to Placerville, a 36mi ride and 
>often through gnarly terrain. I met many horses, dogs, had a fox travel 
>in front of me on the trail for a while, saw beautiful birds, pretty 
>flowers, a few chats with ranchers. Then there is the experience of 
>achievement. For example, for the first time ever I was able to hammer 
>up a particular uphill stretch staying in the pedals. I and almost 
>anyone I know used to walk the last part of it.


You're wrong.  It's the drugs.


>> Drugs don't addict the user on first use, either.
>>
>
>Because they can't give you any of the above.


Wrong again.  It's *exactly* the same process.  Your brain likes the
endorphins, no matter how you get them (whether it be dope, exercise,
or chocolates).
Reply by Joerg ●March 22, 20152015-03-22
On 2015-03-21 4:21 PM, krw@zzz.com wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 16:01:54 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-03-21 3:50 PM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 12:29:37 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2015-03-21 8:48 AM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 07:52:02 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>>>> Get a ton of exercise, don't smoke, don't eat bad stuff and you might
>>>>>> never need this done. But for some people the conditions are heredetary,
>>>>>> not much they can do about it. A friend of ours just got a whole new
>>>>>> heart valve delivered and installed with such a procedure. They didn't
>>>>>> have to crack his chest for open heart surgery, a procedure he might not
>>>>>> have survived due to other medical conditions.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pretty much a genes thing.  My brother had a couple of stents a week
>>>>> before I had the catheterization/  He, too, should have had a triple
>>>>> bypass but they blew it so he'll have to wait a year for the surgery.
>>>>> Another brother died of sudden death syndrome.  He was the one who was
>>>>> anal about all the exercise and diet stuff.  He swam two miles three
>>>>> times a week and did a couple of hours at the gym 7 days. Didn't help.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But it still does other things. I bet he feels really good after
>>>> exercise. When I came home from a 36mi hard mountain bike ride yesterday
>>>> night I felt like a Viking warrior on a horse.
>>>
>>> Drugs do the same thing, in the same way.  Dopamine, Serotonin, and
>>> Endorphins.
>>>
>>
>> But with exercise it only happens after reaching a certain endurance
>> level. When I started intense biking 1-1/2 years ago I was huffing and
>> puffing after 15 mile of hills and my only thought was "Get me off of
>> this bike!". Now it's different.
>>
> Not sure that it matters.  The drugs and effects are the same.  If you
> don't exercise for several days, you'll have withdrawal symptoms, too.



I do. That is because it isn't the endorphins, it's the experience. On 
Friday I used my mountain bike to go to Placerville, a 36mi ride and 
often through gnarly terrain. I met many horses, dogs, had a fox travel 
in front of me on the trail for a while, saw beautiful birds, pretty 
flowers, a few chats with ranchers. Then there is the experience of 
achievement. For example, for the first time ever I was able to hammer 
up a particular uphill stretch staying in the pedals. I and almost 
anyone I know used to walk the last part of it.



> Drugs don't addict the user on first use, either.
>


Because they can't give you any of the above.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by Joerg ●March 22, 20152015-03-22
On 2015-03-21 5:58 PM, Tom Swift wrote:

> Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-03-21 4:02 PM, Tom Swift wrote:
>
>>> So who is making all the money in health care? Is it the hospitals
>>> with their obscene chargemaster lists?
>
>> Lawyers, liability insurers, unionized workers and hospitals, mostly.
>> A nurse makes more money than an engineer in many places. The health
>> "system" in the US has gone beyond absurd. Which is why many people
>> with non-urgent or elective surgeries go to Thailand and other places
>> to have it done.
>
> Thanks for the link:
>
> http://www.californiahealthline.org/road-to-reform/2013/more-doctors-are-
> quitting-medicare-is-obamacare-really-to-blame
>
> The article linked to another article in the NewYorker, "Cowboys and Pit
> Crews":
>
> http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/cowboys-and-pit-crews
>
> This was a very enjoyable read - thank you.
>
> But the problem is once you start reading about these issues, you quickly
> get overwhelmed with the complexity. There doesn't seem to be a single
> string that if you pull on it, out will come the solution. Given all the
> different factors - politics, liability, social, and plain greed, there
> may be no solution.
>


The key points are missing in most publications (sometimes because they 
are not "PC") and those are that, before doing anything to our medical 
system, we must get rid of the parasites in it and also make it at least 
as transparent as the process of buying groceries. If a cardiologist has 
to pay north of $100k just in liablility insurance just to be able to 
practice that is sick. If people cannot find out before committing what 
a procedure costs that is never going to work in the long run.



> Medical tourism may be the answer for those who can afford it, but many
> cannot. Possible solutions abound, for example the free health care
> enjoyed by Canadians. But it is doubtful anything like this could be
> introduced in the US.
>


I wouldn't want it. Socialized medicine results in the usual, waiting 
lists. Except people die on those kinds of waiting lists. Wealthier 
Canadians often quietly carry a Mayo Care card or something similar in 
their pockets. That way they can avoid the mediocre performance of their 
country's health system and skip across the border for top notch 
treatment. While at Mayo I was astounded how many Canadian patients were 
there, their accents gave them away. Problem is, if our system turns 
sour we have no border to skip across for medical care. We'd have to 
cross an ocean and with a heart condition that may not be possible.



> I know many people in health care are very idealistic about helping
> others. But when it starts affecting your family, you have to make a
> choice.
>
> I guess you can consider yourself lucky to have got out when you did.
>


It would have been ok to get out later but it would have created a lull 
in assignments. I'd have used that for mountain biking :-)

I didn't get out completely, still doing one medical project and that is 
a very challenging one. When it's tough, it's fun.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Reply by Clifford Heath ●March 22, 20152015-03-22
On 22/03/15 10:02, Tom Swift wrote:

> So who is making all the money in health care? Is it the hospitals with
> their obscene chargemaster lists?


At some point, professional indemnity insurance costs more than health 
insurance (with reduced liability). It seems likely that the USA is well 
past that point.

Life is dangerous. Not everything that happens to you is "someone else's 
fault".
Reply by Tom Swift ●March 21, 20152015-03-21
Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:


> On 2015-03-21 4:02 PM, Tom Swift wrote:



>> So who is making all the money in health care? Is it the hospitals
>> with their obscene chargemaster lists?



> Lawyers, liability insurers, unionized workers and hospitals, mostly.
> A nurse makes more money than an engineer in many places. The health 
> "system" in the US has gone beyond absurd. Which is why many people
> with non-urgent or elective surgeries go to Thailand and other places
> to have it done.

 
Thanks for the link:

http://www.californiahealthline.org/road-to-reform/2013/more-doctors-are-
quitting-medicare-is-obamacare-really-to-blame

The article linked to another article in the NewYorker, "Cowboys and Pit 
Crews":

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/cowboys-and-pit-crews

This was a very enjoyable read - thank you.

But the problem is once you start reading about these issues, you quickly 
get overwhelmed with the complexity. There doesn't seem to be a single 
string that if you pull on it, out will come the solution. Given all the 
different factors - politics, liability, social, and plain greed, there 
may be no solution.

Medical tourism may be the answer for those who can afford it, but many 
cannot. Possible solutions abound, for example the free health care 
enjoyed by Canadians. But it is doubtful anything like this could be 
introduced in the US.

I know many people in health care are very idealistic about helping 
others. But when it starts affecting your family, you have to make a 
choice.

I guess you can consider yourself lucky to have got out when you did.
Reply by ●March 21, 20152015-03-21
On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 16:01:54 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:


>On 2015-03-21 3:50 PM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 12:29:37 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2015-03-21 8:48 AM, krw@zzz.com wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2015 07:52:02 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>
>[...]
>
>>>>> Get a ton of exercise, don't smoke, don't eat bad stuff and you might
>>>>> never need this done. But for some people the conditions are heredetary,
>>>>> not much they can do about it. A friend of ours just got a whole new
>>>>> heart valve delivered and installed with such a procedure. They didn't
>>>>> have to crack his chest for open heart surgery, a procedure he might not
>>>>> have survived due to other medical conditions.
>>>>
>>>> Pretty much a genes thing.  My brother had a couple of stents a week
>>>> before I had the catheterization/  He, too, should have had a triple
>>>> bypass but they blew it so he'll have to wait a year for the surgery.
>>>> Another brother died of sudden death syndrome.  He was the one who was
>>>> anal about all the exercise and diet stuff.  He swam two miles three
>>>> times a week and did a couple of hours at the gym 7 days. Didn't help.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But it still does other things. I bet he feels really good after
>>> exercise. When I came home from a 36mi hard mountain bike ride yesterday
>>> night I felt like a Viking warrior on a horse.
>>
>> Drugs do the same thing, in the same way.  Dopamine, Serotonin, and
>> Endorphins.
>>
>
>But with exercise it only happens after reaching a certain endurance 
>level. When I started intense biking 1-1/2 years ago I was huffing and 
>puffing after 15 mile of hills and my only thought was "Get me off of 
>this bike!". Now it's different.
>

Not sure that it matters.  The drugs and effects are the same.  If you
don't exercise for several days, you'll have withdrawal symptoms, too.
Drugs don't addict the user on first use, either.
Reply by Joerg ●March 21, 20152015-03-21
On 2015-03-21 4:02 PM, Tom Swift wrote:

> Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:
>
>> The chargemaster secrecy alone is huge. Case in point: Eye exam was
>> needed. So we inquired and at one out-of-network doctor the procedure
>> with prescription would have cost about $70. Called the HMO to see what
>> they charge. To out great surprise since we have a high-deductible plan
>> they said that it's no charge at all, like preventative care. So we
>> went. _Then_ we got a statement for $163. I called. "Oh, sorry, you were
>> given wrong information but it's your responsibility to check the
>> coverage". Which we can't because most of it isn't disclosed. This is
>> despicable and a serious cancer in US health care.
>
>  From the discussion, I understand med tech companies aren't making much
> money, and are laying off people. Doctors are barely able to scrape by.
>


That is true for many.

http://www.californiahealthline.org/road-to-reform/2013/more-doctors-are-quitting-medicare-is-obamacare-really-to-blame

Some are retiring early. Others don't take Medicare and/or patients. I 
know people who've had serious difficulties finding a doctor that had 
time to treat them and was willing to.



>  From Wikipedia, "According to the World Health Organization (WHO), the
> United States spent more on health care per capita ($8,608), and more on
> health care as percentage of its GDP (17.2%), than any other nation in
> 2011."
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
>
> So who is making all the money in health care? Is it the hospitals with
> their obscene chargemaster lists?
>


Lawyers, liability insurers, unionized workers and hospitals, mostly. A 
nurse makes more money than an engineer in many places. The health 
"system" in the US has gone beyond absurd. Which is why many people with 
non-urgent or elective surgeries go to Thailand and other places to have 
it done.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

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