On Sunday, August 31, 2014 6:57:50 PM UTC+2, ChesterW wrote:
> On 8/30/14, 5:59 AM, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
>=20
> > [snip]
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > Is it still hanging on the wall as a reminder of the first project?
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Cheers
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Klaus
>=20
> >
>=20
> Yes. Reminders of humble beginnings and construction methods using=20
>=20
> recycled telephone-wire may prevent swollen-head syndrome. It's not=20
>=20
> always completely effective ;)
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I think the first project was before the 8080. It was a tic-tac-toe game=
=20
>=20
> using combinational logic constructed using wire-wrap. Of course it was=
=20
>=20
> a disaster and never worked. I remember being happy upon realizing the=20
>=20
> symmetry of the problem reduced the complexity. I had not yet heard of=20
>=20
> Boolean algebra.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> What was your first project, way back then?
>=20
>=20

The first was actually not an electronics project. My dad is an electrical =
engineer (high voltage) and he taught me the basics when I was about 9.

So I made a simple "notify" system for my room. A push button along side th=
e door to my room was hooked up to a switch inside my room. So my family to=
 push the button and depending on the state of the switch a light would ind=
icate "not at home" / "do not bother" / "please come in"

Quite simple, not really advanced at all :-)

Cheers

Klaus

On 8/30/14, 5:59 AM, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
> [snip]

> Is it still hanging on the wall as a reminder of the first project?
>
> Cheers
>
> Klaus
>
Yes. Reminders of humble beginnings and construction methods using 
recycled telephone-wire may prevent swollen-head syndrome. It's not 
always completely effective ;)

I think the first project was before the 8080. It was a tic-tac-toe game 
using combinational logic constructed using wire-wrap. Of course it was 
a disaster and never worked. I remember being happy upon realizing the 
symmetry of the problem reduced the complexity. I had not yet heard of 
Boolean algebra.

What was your first project, way back then?

ChesterW

[snip]
>
> 
> That sounds like a nice and fun way to start out. I believe digital is 
> 
> especially suited, since you can do a lot without much formal training.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if the internet makes it easier or harder for newbies nowadays. 
> 
> It's very distracting, and one needs to discount a lot of what's found. 
> 
> Also, easy access to information is not the same as easy access to 
> 
> understanding, which seems to take its own time and not be in a 
> 
> particular hurry about arriving.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to think that the 5 buck eval modules must take out some of the 
> 
> adventure, or that it's a different kind of adventure.
> 

Yes, you don't get into the hardware stuff much, but can quickly combine building blocks to really cool systems


> 
> 
> Here are some photos of my heirlooms from back then.
> 
> 
> 
> Purchased with 16th birthday money:
> 
> 
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33776033/8080/bugbook.jpg
> 

Nice

> 
> 
> Three years later this was finally running:
> 
> 
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33776033/8080/8080A_front.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33776033/8080/8080A_back.jpg
> 
> 

Is it still hanging on the wall as a reminder of the first project?

Cheers

Klaus

On 8/29/14, 5:12 AM, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
> On Friday, August 29, 2014 5:01:32 AM UTC+2, ChesterW wrote:
>> On 8/28/14, 4:20 PM, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, August 28, 2014 11:19:16 PM UTC+2, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
>>
>>>> On Thursday, August 28, 2014 9:22:48 PM UTC+2, ChesterW wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> On 8/26/14, 11:21 AM, ChesterW wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> Dear Group,
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>         I can finally afford a new oscilloscope to supplement my trusty
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> TEK 465M. My budget is around $3k. I like the newer Agilent scopes,
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> which I have used when someone else was paying. I do mostly low
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> frequency high-precision instruments (analog signals less than about 1
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> MHz).
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>         The pretty lower-end Agilent scopes are in reach, but I'm tempted
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> to use one of these:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/k88x74r
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> which is driven internally with an FPGA and one of these ADCs:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> http://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsheets/DataSheetASD5020HS_v2.0.pdf
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> I make out the ENOB to be 11.6 bits at 125 MSPS with 14 bit samples
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> using 4 channels, and 13.2 bits with 16 bit samples at 62.5 MSPS using
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> one channel. It will also go out to 1 GSPS with 8 bit samples. Analog BW
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> is 200 MHz.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> I like the serial decoding for free and the ability to stream data to an
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> external application for creating custom processing. I'm thinking this
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> would be good for prototyping AFEs with signal processing via the PC.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> So my thinking is that using this rather obscure configurable ADC that
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> these guys improve performance over the big manufacturers ASICs for my
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> particular applications niche.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> What do you think?
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> ChesterW
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> Thanks everyone for your comments. Especially useful were the reminders
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> of how unwieldy virtual controls are on a scope and the great bargains
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> available for older but top-notch gear.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> I've decided to purchase the Picoscope, specifically the 5444B. The main
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> driver for me is the high precision at low frequencies which has direct
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> applicability for my particular area.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> The main drawback of no physical controls I'll fix using encoders and a
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> controller emulating a USB keyboard. You can see one idea for an encoder
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> enclosure that sits just below the computer monitor here:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/kblkukg
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/kag2xwq
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> The same control software is used across the Pico line of products, so I
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> think I should be OK on software updates. If it turns out poorly, I'll
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> sell it (maybe to Klaus ;), and go the route of a nice used system.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Please don't sell it to me. I have 3 different scopes allready (Pico, Tektronix and Hameg), and I really cannot bear to part with any of them :-)
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> The Hameg 205-3 was my first scope, my late mother bought it for me. I power it up once per month just to keep it running, although for long durivity it would probably be better to have it powered 24/7
>>
>>>>
>>
>>> It's 29 years old, got it when I was 12 years or so....
>>
>>>
>>
>> That's a very nice scope for a beginner, especially a 12 year old one.
>>
>> Your mother must have had real faith in you. At 12 I was mainly
>>
>> interested in fishing and hunting and almost certainly would have ruined
>>
>> such nice gear.
>>
>
> I spend a lot of time tinkering, going to the library, bought my first databook, RCA 4000 series logic. A lot of details in that one back then
>
> If only I had better access to good books and the internet was invented a lot more could have been gained
>
> And today if you have a computer you can buy a eval board for 5 bucks and be up and running. Back then I spend 1 year designing my own 8051 system with an EEPROM emulator.
>
> Cheers
>
> Klaus
>
That sounds like a nice and fun way to start out. I believe digital is 
especially suited, since you can do a lot without much formal training.

I wonder if the internet makes it easier or harder for newbies nowadays. 
It's very distracting, and one needs to discount a lot of what's found. 
Also, easy access to information is not the same as easy access to 
understanding, which seems to take its own time and not be in a 
particular hurry about arriving.

I have to think that the 5 buck eval modules must take out some of the 
adventure, or that it's a different kind of adventure.

Here are some photos of my heirlooms from back then.

Purchased with 16th birthday money:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33776033/8080/bugbook.jpg

Three years later this was finally running:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33776033/8080/8080A_front.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33776033/8080/8080A_back.jpg

A friend and I hand-assembled code and found some big (so we thought) 
prime numbers. We worked until we dropped. It was fun!

ChesterW

On 8/29/14, 6:48 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
> On 8/28/2014 3:22 PM, ChesterW wrote:
>> On 8/26/14, 11:21 AM, ChesterW wrote:
>>> Dear Group,
>>>
>>>       I can finally afford a new oscilloscope to supplement my trusty
>>> TEK 465M. My budget is around $3k. I like the newer Agilent scopes,
>>> which I have used when someone else was paying. I do mostly low
>>> frequency high-precision instruments (analog signals less than about 1
>>> MHz).
>>>
>>>       The pretty lower-end Agilent scopes are in reach, but I'm tempted
>>> to use one of these:
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/k88x74r
>>>
>>> which is driven internally with an FPGA and one of these ADCs:
>>>
>>> http://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsheets/DataSheetASD5020HS_v2.0.pdf
>>>
>>> I make out the ENOB to be 11.6 bits at 125 MSPS with 14 bit samples
>>> using 4 channels, and 13.2 bits with 16 bit samples at 62.5 MSPS using
>>> one channel. It will also go out to 1 GSPS with 8 bit samples. Analog BW
>>> is 200 MHz.
>>>
>>> I like the serial decoding for free and the ability to stream data to an
>>> external application for creating custom processing. I'm thinking this
>>> would be good for prototyping AFEs with signal processing via the PC.
>>>
>>> So my thinking is that using this rather obscure configurable ADC that
>>> these guys improve performance over the big manufacturers ASICs for my
>>> particular applications niche.
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>> ChesterW
>>>
>> Thanks everyone for your comments. Especially useful were the reminders
>> of how unwieldy virtual controls are on a scope and the great bargains
>> available for older but top-notch gear.
>>
>> I've decided to purchase the Picoscope, specifically the 5444B. The main
>> driver for me is the high precision at low frequencies which has direct
>> applicability for my particular area.
>>
>> The main drawback of no physical controls I'll fix using encoders and a
>> controller emulating a USB keyboard. You can see one idea for an encoder
>> enclosure that sits just below the computer monitor here:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/kblkukg
>> http://tinyurl.com/kag2xwq
>>
>> The same control software is used across the Pico line of products, so I
>> think I should be OK on software updates. If it turns out poorly, I'll
>> sell it (maybe to Klaus ;), and go the route of a nice used system.
>>
>> ChesterW
>
> If it comes out well, you might OEM those to Pico.
>
> Cheers
>
> Phil Hobbs
>
>
I was thinking along the same lines. I'll let you know how it works out.

ChesterW

On 8/28/2014 3:22 PM, ChesterW wrote:
> On 8/26/14, 11:21 AM, ChesterW wrote:
>> Dear Group,
>>
>>       I can finally afford a new oscilloscope to supplement my trusty
>> TEK 465M. My budget is around $3k. I like the newer Agilent scopes,
>> which I have used when someone else was paying. I do mostly low
>> frequency high-precision instruments (analog signals less than about 1
>> MHz).
>>
>>       The pretty lower-end Agilent scopes are in reach, but I'm tempted
>> to use one of these:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/k88x74r
>>
>> which is driven internally with an FPGA and one of these ADCs:
>>
>> http://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsheets/DataSheetASD5020HS_v2.0.pdf
>>
>> I make out the ENOB to be 11.6 bits at 125 MSPS with 14 bit samples
>> using 4 channels, and 13.2 bits with 16 bit samples at 62.5 MSPS using
>> one channel. It will also go out to 1 GSPS with 8 bit samples. Analog BW
>> is 200 MHz.
>>
>> I like the serial decoding for free and the ability to stream data to an
>> external application for creating custom processing. I'm thinking this
>> would be good for prototyping AFEs with signal processing via the PC.
>>
>> So my thinking is that using this rather obscure configurable ADC that
>> these guys improve performance over the big manufacturers ASICs for my
>> particular applications niche.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> ChesterW
>>
> Thanks everyone for your comments. Especially useful were the reminders
> of how unwieldy virtual controls are on a scope and the great bargains
> available for older but top-notch gear.
>
> I've decided to purchase the Picoscope, specifically the 5444B. The main
> driver for me is the high precision at low frequencies which has direct
> applicability for my particular area.
>
> The main drawback of no physical controls I'll fix using encoders and a
> controller emulating a USB keyboard. You can see one idea for an encoder
> enclosure that sits just below the computer monitor here:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/kblkukg
> http://tinyurl.com/kag2xwq
>
> The same control software is used across the Pico line of products, so I
> think I should be OK on software updates. If it turns out poorly, I'll
> sell it (maybe to Klaus ;), and go the route of a nice used system.
>
> ChesterW

If it comes out well, you might OEM those to Pico.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs


-- 
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

On Friday, August 29, 2014 5:01:32 AM UTC+2, ChesterW wrote:
> On 8/28/14, 4:20 PM, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
> 
> > On Thursday, August 28, 2014 11:19:16 PM UTC+2, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
> 
> >> On Thursday, August 28, 2014 9:22:48 PM UTC+2, ChesterW wrote:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> On 8/26/14, 11:21 AM, ChesterW wrote:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> Dear Group,
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>        I can finally afford a new oscilloscope to supplement my trusty
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> TEK 465M. My budget is around $3k. I like the newer Agilent scopes,
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> which I have used when someone else was paying. I do mostly low
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> frequency high-precision instruments (analog signals less than about 1
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> MHz).
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>        The pretty lower-end Agilent scopes are in reach, but I'm tempted
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> to use one of these:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> http://tinyurl.com/k88x74r
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> which is driven internally with an FPGA and one of these ADCs:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> http://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsheets/DataSheetASD5020HS_v2.0.pdf
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> I make out the ENOB to be 11.6 bits at 125 MSPS with 14 bit samples
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> using 4 channels, and 13.2 bits with 16 bit samples at 62.5 MSPS using
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> one channel. It will also go out to 1 GSPS with 8 bit samples. Analog BW
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> is 200 MHz.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> I like the serial decoding for free and the ability to stream data to an
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> external application for creating custom processing. I'm thinking this
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> would be good for prototyping AFEs with signal processing via the PC.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> So my thinking is that using this rather obscure configurable ADC that
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> these guys improve performance over the big manufacturers ASICs for my
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> particular applications niche.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> What do you think?
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> ChesterW
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> Thanks everyone for your comments. Especially useful were the reminders
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> of how unwieldy virtual controls are on a scope and the great bargains
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> available for older but top-notch gear.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> I've decided to purchase the Picoscope, specifically the 5444B. The main
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> driver for me is the high precision at low frequencies which has direct
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> applicability for my particular area.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> The main drawback of no physical controls I'll fix using encoders and a
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> controller emulating a USB keyboard. You can see one idea for an encoder
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> enclosure that sits just below the computer monitor here:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> http://tinyurl.com/kblkukg
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> http://tinyurl.com/kag2xwq
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> The same control software is used across the Pico line of products, so I
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> think I should be OK on software updates. If it turns out poorly, I'll
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> sell it (maybe to Klaus ;), and go the route of a nice used system.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Please don't sell it to me. I have 3 different scopes allready (Pico, Tektronix and Hameg), and I really cannot bear to part with any of them :-)
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> The Hameg 205-3 was my first scope, my late mother bought it for me. I power it up once per month just to keep it running, although for long durivity it would probably be better to have it powered 24/7
> 
> >>
> 
> > It's 29 years old, got it when I was 12 years or so....
> 
> >
> 
> That's a very nice scope for a beginner, especially a 12 year old one. 
> 
> Your mother must have had real faith in you. At 12 I was mainly 
> 
> interested in fishing and hunting and almost certainly would have ruined 
> 
> such nice gear.
> 

I spend a lot of time tinkering, going to the library, bought my first databook, RCA 4000 series logic. A lot of details in that one back then

If only I had better access to good books and the internet was invented a lot more could have been gained

And today if you have a computer you can buy a eval board for 5 bucks and be up and running. Back then I spend 1 year designing my own 8051 system with an EEPROM emulator.

Cheers

Klaus

On Friday, August 29, 2014 5:01:32 AM UTC+2, ChesterW wrote:
> On 8/28/14, 4:20 PM, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
> 
> > On Thursday, August 28, 2014 11:19:16 PM UTC+2, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
> 
> >> On Thursday, August 28, 2014 9:22:48 PM UTC+2, ChesterW wrote:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> On 8/26/14, 11:21 AM, ChesterW wrote:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> Dear Group,
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>        I can finally afford a new oscilloscope to supplement my trusty
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> TEK 465M. My budget is around $3k. I like the newer Agilent scopes,
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> which I have used when someone else was paying. I do mostly low
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> frequency high-precision instruments (analog signals less than about 1
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> MHz).
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>        The pretty lower-end Agilent scopes are in reach, but I'm tempted
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> to use one of these:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> http://tinyurl.com/k88x74r
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> which is driven internally with an FPGA and one of these ADCs:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> http://www.mouser.com/catalog/specsheets/DataSheetASD5020HS_v2.0.pdf
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> I make out the ENOB to be 11.6 bits at 125 MSPS with 14 bit samples
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> using 4 channels, and 13.2 bits with 16 bit samples at 62.5 MSPS using
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> one channel. It will also go out to 1 GSPS with 8 bit samples. Analog BW
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> is 200 MHz.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> I like the serial decoding for free and the ability to stream data to an
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> external application for creating custom processing. I'm thinking this
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> would be good for prototyping AFEs with signal processing via the PC.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> So my thinking is that using this rather obscure configurable ADC that
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> these guys improve performance over the big manufacturers ASICs for my
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> particular applications niche.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> What do you think?
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>> ChesterW
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> Thanks everyone for your comments. Especially useful were the reminders
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> of how unwieldy virtual controls are on a scope and the great bargains
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> available for older but top-notch gear.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> I've decided to purchase the Picoscope, specifically the 5444B. The main
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> driver for me is the high precision at low frequencies which has direct
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> applicability for my particular area.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> The main drawback of no physical controls I'll fix using encoders and a
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> controller emulating a USB keyboard. You can see one idea for an encoder
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> enclosure that sits just below the computer monitor here:
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> http://tinyurl.com/kblkukg
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> http://tinyurl.com/kag2xwq
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> The same control software is used across the Pico line of products, so I
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> think I should be OK on software updates. If it turns out poorly, I'll
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>> sell it (maybe to Klaus ;), and go the route of a nice used system.
> 
> >>
> 
> >>>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> Please don't sell it to me. I have 3 different scopes allready (Pico, Tektronix and Hameg), and I really cannot bear to part with any of them :-)
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >>
> 
> >> The Hameg 205-3 was my first scope, my late mother bought it for me. I power it up once per month just to keep it running, although for long durivity it would probably be better to have it powered 24/7
> 
> >>
> 
> > It's 29 years old, got it when I was 12 years or so....
> 
> >
> 
> That's a very nice scope for a beginner, especially a 12 year old one. 
> 
> Your mother must have had real faith in you. At 12 I was mainly 
> 
> interested in fishing and hunting and almost certainly would have ruined 
> 
> such nice gear.
> 

Well, it was a once in a lifetime gift and I had the habbit (still do) of not being satisfied with low performance. Looking back I should have bought a lower priced scope and used the rest for other instruments 
 
Cheers

Klaus