Reply by Phil Hobbs April 16, 20132013-04-16
On 4/16/2013 5:57 PM, Jamie wrote:
> Phil Hobbs wrote: > >> On 4/15/2013 10:07 PM, Jamie wrote: >> >>> Phil Hobbs wrote: >>> >>>> On 4/15/2013 9:14 PM, Jamie wrote: >>>> >>>>> Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 4/15/2013 2:08 PM, Fred Abse wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 17:24:38 -0700, Joerg wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Or think about a relay: It will pull in when you apply enough >>>>>>>> voltage. >>>>>>>> It will still pull in the same way if you reverse the polarity. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Don't bet on it. Lots of relays these days are polarized, and they >>>>>>> don't >>>>>>> always tell you, expecting you to notice the + and - labels. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Yup. They have permanent magnets built in. Just ran into that with >>>>>> the RF relays I used in the high-Z TIA we were discussing a couple of >>>>>> months ago. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> >>>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>>> >>>>> Sounds like latching relays, we use them a lot at work.. >>>>> >>>>> Spring loaded PM's in the core of the DC coil. Simply >>>>> select the polarity you need to set the static state of the >>>>> relay. >>>>> >>>>> AC units have an additional pin and diodes inside. they also have >>>>> DC types with additional input, basically a unipolar verses a bipolar >>>>> config. >>>>> >>>>> As for the signal types, we do have some very small ones that >>>>> are not >>>>> very reliable. The magnet will let go under moderate low G-force and >>>>> return to the off state. of course, there are multiple brands and I >>>>> can't say that for all of them because I haven't used them all. >>>>> >>>>> As for polarized (diode shunt) coils, we use those too but only for >>>>> space savers. THe PCB mount types make it harder to route when space >>>>> starts to get too tight at times. I find it some times easier to >>>>> simply >>>>> route a diode pad on the back side of the board under the relay, >>>>> since I >>>>> like using through hole tech for those kinds of components. >>>>> >>>>> P.S. >>>>> >>>>> Been looking at 3D printers lately. I've mentally collected a >>>>> lot >>>>> of different things I can do with it. We'll see how this plays out ;) >>>>> >>>>> Jamie >>>>> >>>> >>>> Check out the Omron G6K series, latching and non-latching. They're >>>> all magnetically biased. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Phil Hobbs >>> >>> >>> We have more exciting attractions around here, why check out relays when >>> You can go to a cook out! >>> >>>> >>> http://www.norwichbulletin.com/newsnow/x1031157713/Man-dies-after-setting-himself-on-fire-at-Willimantic-gas-station#axzz2QaUcA2KH >>> >>> >>> >>> THis happen saturday in my town.. >>> >>> Jamie >>> >> Brr. My son lives not far from there, in Coventry. >> >> Cheers >> >> Phil Hobbs >> > We have an engineer that lives in Coventry. > > P.S. > I have never heard of any Hobbs in this area, he must > live in stealth.. > Jamie >
Nah, he's a UConn student, or was until this week. He's transferring to UBC in the fall. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 USA +1 845 480 2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Reply by Jamie April 16, 20132013-04-16
Phil Hobbs wrote:

> On 4/15/2013 10:07 PM, Jamie wrote: > >> Phil Hobbs wrote: >> >>> On 4/15/2013 9:14 PM, Jamie wrote: >>> >>>> Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 4/15/2013 2:08 PM, Fred Abse wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 17:24:38 -0700, Joerg wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Or think about a relay: It will pull in when you apply enough >>>>>>> voltage. >>>>>>> It will still pull in the same way if you reverse the polarity. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Don't bet on it. Lots of relays these days are polarized, and they >>>>>> don't >>>>>> always tell you, expecting you to notice the + and - labels. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yup. They have permanent magnets built in. Just ran into that with >>>>> the RF relays I used in the high-Z TIA we were discussing a couple of >>>>> months ago. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> >>>>> Phil Hobbs >>>>> >>>> Sounds like latching relays, we use them a lot at work.. >>>> >>>> Spring loaded PM's in the core of the DC coil. Simply >>>> select the polarity you need to set the static state of the >>>> relay. >>>> >>>> AC units have an additional pin and diodes inside. they also have >>>> DC types with additional input, basically a unipolar verses a bipolar >>>> config. >>>> >>>> As for the signal types, we do have some very small ones that are >>>> not >>>> very reliable. The magnet will let go under moderate low G-force and >>>> return to the off state. of course, there are multiple brands and I >>>> can't say that for all of them because I haven't used them all. >>>> >>>> As for polarized (diode shunt) coils, we use those too but only for >>>> space savers. THe PCB mount types make it harder to route when space >>>> starts to get too tight at times. I find it some times easier to simply >>>> route a diode pad on the back side of the board under the relay, >>>> since I >>>> like using through hole tech for those kinds of components. >>>> >>>> P.S. >>>> >>>> Been looking at 3D printers lately. I've mentally collected a lot >>>> of different things I can do with it. We'll see how this plays out ;) >>>> >>>> Jamie >>>> >>> >>> Check out the Omron G6K series, latching and non-latching. They're >>> all magnetically biased. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Phil Hobbs >> >> >> We have more exciting attractions around here, why check out relays when >> You can go to a cook out! >> >>> >> http://www.norwichbulletin.com/newsnow/x1031157713/Man-dies-after-setting-himself-on-fire-at-Willimantic-gas-station#axzz2QaUcA2KH >> >> >> >> THis happen saturday in my town.. >> >> Jamie >> > Brr. My son lives not far from there, in Coventry. > > Cheers > > Phil Hobbs >
We have an engineer that lives in Coventry. P.S. I have never heard of any Hobbs in this area, he must live in stealth.. Jamie
Reply by Phil Hobbs April 15, 20132013-04-15
On 4/15/2013 10:07 PM, Jamie wrote:
> Phil Hobbs wrote: >> On 4/15/2013 9:14 PM, Jamie wrote: >> >>> Phil Hobbs wrote: >>> >>>> On 4/15/2013 2:08 PM, Fred Abse wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 17:24:38 -0700, Joerg wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Or think about a relay: It will pull in when you apply enough >>>>>> voltage. >>>>>> It will still pull in the same way if you reverse the polarity. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Don't bet on it. Lots of relays these days are polarized, and they >>>>> don't >>>>> always tell you, expecting you to notice the + and - labels. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Yup. They have permanent magnets built in. Just ran into that with >>>> the RF relays I used in the high-Z TIA we were discussing a couple of >>>> months ago. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Phil Hobbs >>>> >>> Sounds like latching relays, we use them a lot at work.. >>> >>> Spring loaded PM's in the core of the DC coil. Simply >>> select the polarity you need to set the static state of the >>> relay. >>> >>> AC units have an additional pin and diodes inside. they also have >>> DC types with additional input, basically a unipolar verses a bipolar >>> config. >>> >>> As for the signal types, we do have some very small ones that are not >>> very reliable. The magnet will let go under moderate low G-force and >>> return to the off state. of course, there are multiple brands and I >>> can't say that for all of them because I haven't used them all. >>> >>> As for polarized (diode shunt) coils, we use those too but only for >>> space savers. THe PCB mount types make it harder to route when space >>> starts to get too tight at times. I find it some times easier to simply >>> route a diode pad on the back side of the board under the relay, since I >>> like using through hole tech for those kinds of components. >>> >>> P.S. >>> >>> Been looking at 3D printers lately. I've mentally collected a lot >>> of different things I can do with it. We'll see how this plays out ;) >>> >>> Jamie >>> >> >> Check out the Omron G6K series, latching and non-latching. They're >> all magnetically biased. >> >> Cheers >> >> Phil Hobbs > > We have more exciting attractions around here, why check out relays when > You can go to a cook out! >> > http://www.norwichbulletin.com/newsnow/x1031157713/Man-dies-after-setting-himself-on-fire-at-Willimantic-gas-station#axzz2QaUcA2KH > > > THis happen saturday in my town.. > > Jamie >
Brr. My son lives not far from there, in Coventry. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 USA +1 845 480 2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Reply by Jamie April 15, 20132013-04-15
Phil Hobbs wrote:
> On 4/15/2013 9:14 PM, Jamie wrote: > >> Phil Hobbs wrote: >> >>> On 4/15/2013 2:08 PM, Fred Abse wrote: >>> >>>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 17:24:38 -0700, Joerg wrote: >>>> >>>>> Or think about a relay: It will pull in when you apply enough voltage. >>>>> It will still pull in the same way if you reverse the polarity. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Don't bet on it. Lots of relays these days are polarized, and they >>>> don't >>>> always tell you, expecting you to notice the + and - labels. >>> >>> >>> >>> Yup. They have permanent magnets built in. Just ran into that with >>> the RF relays I used in the high-Z TIA we were discussing a couple of >>> months ago. >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Phil Hobbs >>> >> Sounds like latching relays, we use them a lot at work.. >> >> Spring loaded PM's in the core of the DC coil. Simply >> select the polarity you need to set the static state of the >> relay. >> >> AC units have an additional pin and diodes inside. they also have >> DC types with additional input, basically a unipolar verses a bipolar >> config. >> >> As for the signal types, we do have some very small ones that are not >> very reliable. The magnet will let go under moderate low G-force and >> return to the off state. of course, there are multiple brands and I >> can't say that for all of them because I haven't used them all. >> >> As for polarized (diode shunt) coils, we use those too but only for >> space savers. THe PCB mount types make it harder to route when space >> starts to get too tight at times. I find it some times easier to simply >> route a diode pad on the back side of the board under the relay, since I >> like using through hole tech for those kinds of components. >> >> P.S. >> >> Been looking at 3D printers lately. I've mentally collected a lot >> of different things I can do with it. We'll see how this plays out ;) >> >> Jamie >> > > Check out the Omron G6K series, latching and non-latching. They're all > magnetically biased. > > Cheers > > Phil Hobbs
We have more exciting attractions around here, why check out relays when You can go to a cook out!
>
http://www.norwichbulletin.com/newsnow/x1031157713/Man-dies-after-setting-himself-on-fire-at-Willimantic-gas-station#axzz2QaUcA2KH THis happen saturday in my town.. Jamie
Reply by Phil Hobbs April 15, 20132013-04-15
On 4/15/2013 9:14 PM, Jamie wrote:
> Phil Hobbs wrote: > >> On 4/15/2013 2:08 PM, Fred Abse wrote: >> >>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 17:24:38 -0700, Joerg wrote: >>> >>>> Or think about a relay: It will pull in when you apply enough voltage. >>>> It will still pull in the same way if you reverse the polarity. >>> >>> >>> Don't bet on it. Lots of relays these days are polarized, and they don't >>> always tell you, expecting you to notice the + and - labels. >> >> >> Yup. They have permanent magnets built in. Just ran into that with >> the RF relays I used in the high-Z TIA we were discussing a couple of >> months ago. >> >> Cheers >> >> Phil Hobbs >> > Sounds like latching relays, we use them a lot at work.. > > Spring loaded PM's in the core of the DC coil. Simply > select the polarity you need to set the static state of the > relay. > > AC units have an additional pin and diodes inside. they also have > DC types with additional input, basically a unipolar verses a bipolar > config. > > As for the signal types, we do have some very small ones that are not > very reliable. The magnet will let go under moderate low G-force and > return to the off state. of course, there are multiple brands and I > can't say that for all of them because I haven't used them all. > > As for polarized (diode shunt) coils, we use those too but only for > space savers. THe PCB mount types make it harder to route when space > starts to get too tight at times. I find it some times easier to simply > route a diode pad on the back side of the board under the relay, since I > like using through hole tech for those kinds of components. > > P.S. > > Been looking at 3D printers lately. I've mentally collected a lot > of different things I can do with it. We'll see how this plays out ;) > > Jamie >
Check out the Omron G6K series, latching and non-latching. They're all magnetically biased. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 USA +1 845 480 2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Reply by Jamie April 15, 20132013-04-15
Phil Hobbs wrote:

> On 4/15/2013 2:08 PM, Fred Abse wrote: > >> On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 17:24:38 -0700, Joerg wrote: >> >>> Or think about a relay: It will pull in when you apply enough voltage. >>> It will still pull in the same way if you reverse the polarity. >> >> >> Don't bet on it. Lots of relays these days are polarized, and they don't >> always tell you, expecting you to notice the + and - labels. > > > Yup. They have permanent magnets built in. Just ran into that with the > RF relays I used in the high-Z TIA we were discussing a couple of months > ago. > > Cheers > > Phil Hobbs >
Sounds like latching relays, we use them a lot at work.. Spring loaded PM's in the core of the DC coil. Simply select the polarity you need to set the static state of the relay. AC units have an additional pin and diodes inside. they also have DC types with additional input, basically a unipolar verses a bipolar config. As for the signal types, we do have some very small ones that are not very reliable. The magnet will let go under moderate low G-force and return to the off state. of course, there are multiple brands and I can't say that for all of them because I haven't used them all. As for polarized (diode shunt) coils, we use those too but only for space savers. THe PCB mount types make it harder to route when space starts to get too tight at times. I find it some times easier to simply route a diode pad on the back side of the board under the relay, since I like using through hole tech for those kinds of components. P.S. Been looking at 3D printers lately. I've mentally collected a lot of different things I can do with it. We'll see how this plays out ;) Jamie
Reply by Phil Hobbs April 15, 20132013-04-15
On 4/15/2013 2:08 PM, Fred Abse wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 17:24:38 -0700, Joerg wrote: > >> Or think about a relay: It will pull in when you apply enough voltage. >> It will still pull in the same way if you reverse the polarity. > > Don't bet on it. Lots of relays these days are polarized, and they don't > always tell you, expecting you to notice the + and - labels.
Yup. They have permanent magnets built in. Just ran into that with the RF relays I used in the high-Z TIA we were discussing a couple of months ago. Cheers Phil Hobbs -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics 160 North State Road #203 Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 USA +1 845 480 2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
Reply by Jamie April 15, 20132013-04-15
amdx wrote:
> On 4/14/2013 7:36 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote: > >> On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 09:23:44 +1000, the renowned abrooks@cjaudio.com >> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 11:24:58 -0400, Jamie >>> <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> If you are truly using a solenoid, it should move in the same >>>> direction with both SIN and COS, where the base line, zero crossing, >>>> will allow it the move back to the starting point. So thus, that will >>>> be 2 moves per cycle.. >>>> >>> >>> This is what I do not understand. If you have an air core coil and >>> apply a bipolar signal, the magnetic field will reverse with each half >>> cycle. >>> >>> How is a solenoid different? I would think the positive half of the >>> duty cycle would force the plunger out and the negative would force it >>> back in. >>> >>> Art Brooks >> >> >> Think of a bar magnet representing your coil and a piece of iron >> representing the plunger. >> >> The N side is attracted to the iron, but flip it over, and the S is >> also attracted. >> >> >> Best regards, >> Spehro Pefhany >> > > From my reading of the thread, everyone is in agreement, > you need a spring to make your vibrator work properly. > Mikek :-)
and a fresh set of batteries Jamie
Reply by Jim Thompson April 15, 20132013-04-15
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 11:08:10 -0700, Fred Abse
<excretatauris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 17:24:38 -0700, Joerg wrote: > >> Or think about a relay: It will pull in when you apply enough voltage. >> It will still pull in the same way if you reverse the polarity. > >Don't bet on it. Lots of relays these days are polarized, and they don't >always tell you, expecting you to notice the + and - labels. > >Then there are relays with built-in parallel diodes...
That's the reason for the + and - labels, otherwise it generally doesn't matter. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson | mens | | Analog Innovations | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by amdx April 15, 20132013-04-15
On 4/14/2013 7:36 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 09:23:44 +1000, the renowned abrooks@cjaudio.com > wrote: > >> On Sun, 14 Apr 2013 11:24:58 -0400, Jamie >> <jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> wrote: >> >> >>> If you are truly using a solenoid, it should move in the same >>> direction with both SIN and COS, where the base line, zero crossing, >>> will allow it the move back to the starting point. So thus, that will >>> be 2 moves per cycle.. >>> >> >> This is what I do not understand. If you have an air core coil and >> apply a bipolar signal, the magnetic field will reverse with each half >> cycle. >> >> How is a solenoid different? I would think the positive half of the >> duty cycle would force the plunger out and the negative would force it >> back in. >> >> Art Brooks > > Think of a bar magnet representing your coil and a piece of iron > representing the plunger. > > The N side is attracted to the iron, but flip it over, and the S is > also attracted. > > > Best regards, > Spehro Pefhany >
From my reading of the thread, everyone is in agreement, you need a spring to make your vibrator work properly. Mikek :-)