Reply by Jim Thompson August 13, 20122012-08-13
On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 15:42:52 -0400, bitrex
<bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:

>On 8/7/2012 3:27 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >> I'm honing my Spice modeling skills and need some suggestions of >> devices whose manufacturer-provided Spice model doesn't match reality >> very well, or has serious issues. >> >> I'll try my hand at modeling the device and post my results on these >> newsgroups and on the LTspice list. It would be helpful if, when you >> make a suggestion, you state where and how it fails to match up with >> claimed data sheet performance. >> >> [No real nasty systems-on-a-chip... I want to save those for paying >> customers... and, for now, keep it limited to Analog parts :-] >> >> ...Jim Thompson >> > >4046? (Does a Spice model even exist?)
Got delayed by paying work ;-) Could someone 'scope each end of the VCO timing cap (C1, pins 6 & 7) and tell me what they look like? (The block diagram implies a physical impossibility, so there's something limiting the pull-down switches to some voltage. A waveform will expose the "secret" :) Thanks! ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by Paul Hovnanian P.E. August 9, 20122012-08-09
Jim Thompson wrote:

> I'm honing my Spice modeling skills and need some suggestions of > devices whose manufacturer-provided Spice model doesn't match reality > very well, or has serious issues.
Scary Spice? http://www.google.com/images?q=scary+spice -- Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ Opinions stated herein are the sole property of the author. Standard disclaimers apply. Celebrity voice impersonated. Batteries not included. Limit one to a customer. Best if used by April 1, 2013. Refrigerate after opening. Void if removed.
Reply by Jim Thompson August 9, 20122012-08-09
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 22:47:55 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
<speffSNIP@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat> wrote:

>On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 15:42:52 -0400, the renowned bitrex ><bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote: > >>On 8/7/2012 3:27 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>> I'm honing my Spice modeling skills and need some suggestions of >>> devices whose manufacturer-provided Spice model doesn't match reality >>> very well, or has serious issues. >>> >>> I'll try my hand at modeling the device and post my results on these >>> newsgroups and on the LTspice list. It would be helpful if, when you >>> make a suggestion, you state where and how it fails to match up with >>> claimed data sheet performance. >>> >>> [No real nasty systems-on-a-chip... I want to save those for paying >>> customers... and, for now, keep it limited to Analog parts :-] >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >>> >> >>4046? (Does a Spice model even exist?) > >A "preliminary" model:-
Will run under PSpice, but nothing else. (MNTYMXDLY)
> > >.subckt CD4046 sigin phcmpii phcmpi phpls compin vcoin >+ r1 r2 ce1 ce2 vcoout demout inhibit zener vdd vss >+ OPTIONAL: DPWR=$G_DPWR DGND=$G_DGND >+ PARAMS: MNTYMXDLY=0 IO_LEVEL=0 >+ Rin=1Meg S1=1 S2=0.5 M1=0.5 M2=1.0 Vx=10 >+ Kb=1 Vfree=0.0 Kc=-0.1 Vt=1.2 Vxqr=10 > >* Rin = VCO Input Resistace >* S1 = Voltage Limiter linear slope >* S2 = Voltage Limiter non-linear slope >* Vx = Input threshold voltage (between S1 and S2) >* Kb = Arbitrary constant to adjust the value of the conversion gain >(transimpedance gain) >* Vfree= Frequency dependent constant in Emult >* Kc = Negative inverse amplitude of the square wave >* Vt = Trigger voltage of Schmitt trigger (not used) >* Vxqr = Amplitude of square wave (not used) >* M1 = Current mirror multiplier to adjust oscillator frequency >* M2 = Current mirror multiplier to adjust oscillator frequency > >* Preliminary model still under development based on Natinal >Semiconductor CD4046BM >* RAPerez 9/98 > >* Phase detector section > >U1 INVA(4) DPWR DGND sigin compin isigin icompin >+ isigin icompin clk1 clk2 >+ INVA_TIMING IO_HCT >+ MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} > >.MODEL INVA_TIMING UGATE > >U2 XOR DPWR DGND isigin icompin xorout >+ XOR_TIMING IO_HCT >+ MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} > >.MODEL XOR_TIMING UGATE >***tplhty=20n tphlty=20n > > >U3 NAND(2) DPWR DGND q1 q2 pclr >+ NAND_TIMING IO_HCT >+ MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} > >.MODEL NAND_TIMING UGATE (tplhty=1n tphlty=1n) > >U4 DFF(1) DPWR DGND $D_HI clr clk1 $D_HI q1 qb1 >+ DFF1_TIMING IO_HCT >+ MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} > >.MODEL DFF1_TIMING UEFF tppcqlhty=4n tppcqhlty=4n tpclkqlhty=4n >tpclkqhlty=4n > >U5 DFF(1) DPWR DGND $D_HI clr clk2 $D_HI q2 qb2 >+ DFF2_TIMING IO_HCT >+ MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} > >.MODEL DFF2_TIMING UEFF tppcqlhty=5n tppcqhlty=5n tpclkqlhty=5n >tpclkqhlty=5n > >U7 BUFA(2) DPWR DGND fq1 fq2 s1 s2 >+ BUFA_TIMING IO_HCT >+ MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} > >.MODEL BUFA_TIMING UGATE > >ST2 vdd phcmpii s1 0 swt >SB2 phcmpii vss s2 0 swt > >.model swt VSWITCH (ROFF=2G RON=10m VOFF=0.8 VON=3.0) > >U6 AND(2) DPWR DGND pclr reset clr >+ AND_TIMING IO_HCT >+ MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} > >.MODEL AND_TIMING UGATE > >Ureset STIM(1,1) DPWR DGND >+ reset >+ IO_HCT >+ +0s 0 >+ 2ns 1 >+ 1s 1 > >U8 NOR(2) DPWR DGND fq1 fq2 norout >+ NOR_TIMING IO_HCT >+ MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} > >.MODEL NOR_TIMING UGATE > >U9 ANDA(2,2) DPWR DGND q1 od1 q2 od2 fq1 fq2 >+ ANDA_TIMING IO_HCT >+ MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} > >.MODEL ANDA_TIMING UGATE > >U10 DLYLINE DPWR DGND q1 od1 >+ DLY_TIMING IO_HCT >+ MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} >U11 DLYLINE DPWR DGND q2 od2 >+ DLY_TIMING IO_HCT >+ MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} > >.MODEL DLY_TIMING UDLY dlyty=12n > >U12 BUFA(3) DPWR DGND norout xorout vcosqr phpls phcmpi vcoout >+ BUFB_TIMING IO_HCT >+ MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} > >.MODEL BUFB_TIMING UGATE > > > >* VCO Section > >Rin vcoin vss {Rin} >Evlim vlim 0 value={if(v(vcoin,vss)<v(vdd,vss), >+ >S1*v(vcoin,vss),S2*(v(vcoin,vss)-v(vdd,vss))+v(vdd,vss))} >Rvlim vlim 0 1Meg >Emult mix 0 value={v(vlim)*Kb+Vfree} >*Hmult mix 0 poly(1) Vcm 1.44 0.586 >Rmult mix 0 1 > >Edemout demout 0 table={ 200Meg*v(vcoin,demout)*v(off) } (-20,-20) >(20,20) >Rdemout demout 0 1Meg >ER2 ir2 0 vdd ir2 200Meg >VR2 ir2 r2 >ER1 ir1 0 mix ir1 200Meg >VR1 ir1 r1 >Eosclg adj 0 table={abs((V(vdd)/I(VR2))/(V(mix)/I(VR1)))} >+ (0.5,1.43) (1,1.6) (10,1.04) (50,0.67) (100,0.84) (101,1) >+ (102,1) (1000,1) >Radj adj 0 1G >*GIM ce1 0 value={(M1*I(VR1)+M2*I(VR2))*Kc*V(sqrrc)} >GIM ce1 0 value={(M1*I(VR1)*V(adj)+M2*I(VR2))*Kc*V(sqrrc)} >*GIM ce1 0 value={(24*I(VR1)+3.067*I(VR2))} >Vcext ce2 0 >Cstray ce1 ce2 6p >Rcext ce1 ce2 1T >Etrngl trngl 0 ce1 0 1 >Rtrngl trngl 0 1Meg > >Esqr sqr 0 value={-10Meg*V(trngl)+1.2Meg*V(sqrrc)} > >Rsqr sqr sqrrc 0.1T >Csqr sqrrc 0 10f >Dsqr1 sqrrc 13 Diode >Vsqr1 13 0 {Vx} >Dsqr2 14 sqrrc Diode >.model Diode D (IS=10u N=0.1 CJO=80f RS=1m) >*.model Diode D (IS=10u N=0.001 CJO=80f) >Vsqr2 14 0 {-Vx} >Ipls 0 sqrrc pwl 0 0 10n 0 20n 0.01u 0.1u 0.01u 0.12u 0 1 0 >Evcoout vcosqr 0 table={5.0*v(off)*(v(sqrrc)/Vx)} (0.1,0.1) (4.5,4.5) >*Rvcoout vcosqr vcosqr1 1 > >**Et 7 0 TABLE {-10k*V(trngl)+1.2k*V(sqrrc)} (-2,-10) (2,10) >*Ipls 0 sqrrc pwl 0 0 10n 0 20n 1u 0.1u 1u 0.12u 0 1 0 >*Et 7 0 >value={table({-10Meg*V(trngl)+1.2Meg*V(sqrrc)},-10,{-Vx},10,{Vx})} >*Ro 7 sqrrc 100 >*Co sqrrc 0 100p > >*Est sqrrc o VALUE={table({2000k*(V(st)-V(trngl))},-2,{-Vx},2,{Vx})} >*Rst1 sqrrc st 8.8k >*Rst2 st 0 1.2k >*Cst st 0 200p ic=-10 > >Rinhbt inhibit 0 1Meg >Eoff off 0 value={if(v(inhibit)<0.9,1.0,0.0)} >Roff off 0 1Meg > >Dzener vss zener znr >Rzener vss zener 1G >.model znr D(Is=1.004f Rs=.5875 Ikf=0 N=1 Xti=3 Eg=1.11 Cjo=160p >M=.5484 >+ Vj=.75 Fc=.5 Isr=1.8n Nr=2 Bv=5.2 Ibv=27.721m >Nbv=1.1779 >+ Ibvl=1.1646m Nbvl=21.894 Tbv1=176.47u) > >.ends > > > > >Best regards, >Spehro Pefhany
...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by Spehro Pefhany August 8, 20122012-08-08
On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 15:42:52 -0400, the renowned bitrex
<bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:

>On 8/7/2012 3:27 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >> I'm honing my Spice modeling skills and need some suggestions of >> devices whose manufacturer-provided Spice model doesn't match reality >> very well, or has serious issues. >> >> I'll try my hand at modeling the device and post my results on these >> newsgroups and on the LTspice list. It would be helpful if, when you >> make a suggestion, you state where and how it fails to match up with >> claimed data sheet performance. >> >> [No real nasty systems-on-a-chip... I want to save those for paying >> customers... and, for now, keep it limited to Analog parts :-] >> >> ...Jim Thompson >> > >4046? (Does a Spice model even exist?)
A "preliminary" model:- .subckt CD4046 sigin phcmpii phcmpi phpls compin vcoin + r1 r2 ce1 ce2 vcoout demout inhibit zener vdd vss + OPTIONAL: DPWR=$G_DPWR DGND=$G_DGND + PARAMS: MNTYMXDLY=0 IO_LEVEL=0 + Rin=1Meg S1=1 S2=0.5 M1=0.5 M2=1.0 Vx=10 + Kb=1 Vfree=0.0 Kc=-0.1 Vt=1.2 Vxqr=10 * Rin = VCO Input Resistace * S1 = Voltage Limiter linear slope * S2 = Voltage Limiter non-linear slope * Vx = Input threshold voltage (between S1 and S2) * Kb = Arbitrary constant to adjust the value of the conversion gain (transimpedance gain) * Vfree= Frequency dependent constant in Emult * Kc = Negative inverse amplitude of the square wave * Vt = Trigger voltage of Schmitt trigger (not used) * Vxqr = Amplitude of square wave (not used) * M1 = Current mirror multiplier to adjust oscillator frequency * M2 = Current mirror multiplier to adjust oscillator frequency * Preliminary model still under development based on Natinal Semiconductor CD4046BM * RAPerez 9/98 * Phase detector section U1 INVA(4) DPWR DGND sigin compin isigin icompin + isigin icompin clk1 clk2 + INVA_TIMING IO_HCT + MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} .MODEL INVA_TIMING UGATE U2 XOR DPWR DGND isigin icompin xorout + XOR_TIMING IO_HCT + MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} .MODEL XOR_TIMING UGATE ***tplhty=20n tphlty=20n U3 NAND(2) DPWR DGND q1 q2 pclr + NAND_TIMING IO_HCT + MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} .MODEL NAND_TIMING UGATE (tplhty=1n tphlty=1n) U4 DFF(1) DPWR DGND $D_HI clr clk1 $D_HI q1 qb1 + DFF1_TIMING IO_HCT + MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} .MODEL DFF1_TIMING UEFF tppcqlhty=4n tppcqhlty=4n tpclkqlhty=4n tpclkqhlty=4n U5 DFF(1) DPWR DGND $D_HI clr clk2 $D_HI q2 qb2 + DFF2_TIMING IO_HCT + MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} .MODEL DFF2_TIMING UEFF tppcqlhty=5n tppcqhlty=5n tpclkqlhty=5n tpclkqhlty=5n U7 BUFA(2) DPWR DGND fq1 fq2 s1 s2 + BUFA_TIMING IO_HCT + MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} .MODEL BUFA_TIMING UGATE ST2 vdd phcmpii s1 0 swt SB2 phcmpii vss s2 0 swt .model swt VSWITCH (ROFF=2G RON=10m VOFF=0.8 VON=3.0) U6 AND(2) DPWR DGND pclr reset clr + AND_TIMING IO_HCT + MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} .MODEL AND_TIMING UGATE Ureset STIM(1,1) DPWR DGND + reset + IO_HCT + +0s 0 + 2ns 1 + 1s 1 U8 NOR(2) DPWR DGND fq1 fq2 norout + NOR_TIMING IO_HCT + MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} .MODEL NOR_TIMING UGATE U9 ANDA(2,2) DPWR DGND q1 od1 q2 od2 fq1 fq2 + ANDA_TIMING IO_HCT + MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} .MODEL ANDA_TIMING UGATE U10 DLYLINE DPWR DGND q1 od1 + DLY_TIMING IO_HCT + MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} U11 DLYLINE DPWR DGND q2 od2 + DLY_TIMING IO_HCT + MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} .MODEL DLY_TIMING UDLY dlyty=12n U12 BUFA(3) DPWR DGND norout xorout vcosqr phpls phcmpi vcoout + BUFB_TIMING IO_HCT + MNTYMXDLY={MNTYMXDLY} IO_LEVEL={IO_LEVEL} .MODEL BUFB_TIMING UGATE * VCO Section Rin vcoin vss {Rin} Evlim vlim 0 value={if(v(vcoin,vss)<v(vdd,vss), + S1*v(vcoin,vss),S2*(v(vcoin,vss)-v(vdd,vss))+v(vdd,vss))} Rvlim vlim 0 1Meg Emult mix 0 value={v(vlim)*Kb+Vfree} *Hmult mix 0 poly(1) Vcm 1.44 0.586 Rmult mix 0 1 Edemout demout 0 table={ 200Meg*v(vcoin,demout)*v(off) } (-20,-20) (20,20) Rdemout demout 0 1Meg ER2 ir2 0 vdd ir2 200Meg VR2 ir2 r2 ER1 ir1 0 mix ir1 200Meg VR1 ir1 r1 Eosclg adj 0 table={abs((V(vdd)/I(VR2))/(V(mix)/I(VR1)))} + (0.5,1.43) (1,1.6) (10,1.04) (50,0.67) (100,0.84) (101,1) + (102,1) (1000,1) Radj adj 0 1G *GIM ce1 0 value={(M1*I(VR1)+M2*I(VR2))*Kc*V(sqrrc)} GIM ce1 0 value={(M1*I(VR1)*V(adj)+M2*I(VR2))*Kc*V(sqrrc)} *GIM ce1 0 value={(24*I(VR1)+3.067*I(VR2))} Vcext ce2 0 Cstray ce1 ce2 6p Rcext ce1 ce2 1T Etrngl trngl 0 ce1 0 1 Rtrngl trngl 0 1Meg Esqr sqr 0 value={-10Meg*V(trngl)+1.2Meg*V(sqrrc)} Rsqr sqr sqrrc 0.1T Csqr sqrrc 0 10f Dsqr1 sqrrc 13 Diode Vsqr1 13 0 {Vx} Dsqr2 14 sqrrc Diode .model Diode D (IS=10u N=0.1 CJO=80f RS=1m) *.model Diode D (IS=10u N=0.001 CJO=80f) Vsqr2 14 0 {-Vx} Ipls 0 sqrrc pwl 0 0 10n 0 20n 0.01u 0.1u 0.01u 0.12u 0 1 0 Evcoout vcosqr 0 table={5.0*v(off)*(v(sqrrc)/Vx)} (0.1,0.1) (4.5,4.5) *Rvcoout vcosqr vcosqr1 1 **Et 7 0 TABLE {-10k*V(trngl)+1.2k*V(sqrrc)} (-2,-10) (2,10) *Ipls 0 sqrrc pwl 0 0 10n 0 20n 1u 0.1u 1u 0.12u 0 1 0 *Et 7 0 value={table({-10Meg*V(trngl)+1.2Meg*V(sqrrc)},-10,{-Vx},10,{Vx})} *Ro 7 sqrrc 100 *Co sqrrc 0 100p *Est sqrrc o VALUE={table({2000k*(V(st)-V(trngl))},-2,{-Vx},2,{Vx})} *Rst1 sqrrc st 8.8k *Rst2 st 0 1.2k *Cst st 0 200p ic=-10 Rinhbt inhibit 0 1Meg Eoff off 0 value={if(v(inhibit)<0.9,1.0,0.0)} Roff off 0 1Meg Dzener vss zener znr Rzener vss zener 1G .model znr D(Is=1.004f Rs=.5875 Ikf=0 N=1 Xti=3 Eg=1.11 Cjo=160p M=.5484 + Vj=.75 Fc=.5 Isr=1.8n Nr=2 Bv=5.2 Ibv=27.721m Nbv=1.1779 + Ibvl=1.1646m Nbvl=21.894 Tbv1=176.47u) .ends Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Reply by Jim Thompson August 8, 20122012-08-08
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 19:11:03 -0500, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 15:58:06 -0700, Jim Thompson ><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote: > >>On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 15:42:52 -0400, bitrex >><bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote: >> >>>On 8/7/2012 3:27 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>>> I'm honing my Spice modeling skills and need some suggestions of >>>> devices whose manufacturer-provided Spice model doesn't match reality >>>> very well, or has serious issues. >>>> >>>> I'll try my hand at modeling the device and post my results on these >>>> newsgroups and on the LTspice list. It would be helpful if, when you >>>> make a suggestion, you state where and how it fails to match up with >>>> claimed data sheet performance. >>>> >>>> [No real nasty systems-on-a-chip... I want to save those for paying >>>> customers... and, for now, keep it limited to Analog parts :-] >>>> >>>> ...Jim Thompson >>>> >>> >>>4046? (Does a Spice model even exist?) >> >>Not having a 4046 at hand, and the data sheet is sorely lacking, could >>someone measure the voltages at pins 11 and 12, versus VCC? >> >>Thanks! >> >> ...Jim Thompson >--- >I've got some 4046's in stock, and I'll give you one so you can do the >legwork yourself and not have to rely on anyone else's possibly faulty >data messing up your results. > >
Thanks! That will allow me to also observe its droop versus set current. ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by John Fields August 8, 20122012-08-08
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 15:58:06 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 15:42:52 -0400, bitrex ><bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote: > >>On 8/7/2012 3:27 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >>> I'm honing my Spice modeling skills and need some suggestions of >>> devices whose manufacturer-provided Spice model doesn't match reality >>> very well, or has serious issues. >>> >>> I'll try my hand at modeling the device and post my results on these >>> newsgroups and on the LTspice list. It would be helpful if, when you >>> make a suggestion, you state where and how it fails to match up with >>> claimed data sheet performance. >>> >>> [No real nasty systems-on-a-chip... I want to save those for paying >>> customers... and, for now, keep it limited to Analog parts :-] >>> >>> ...Jim Thompson >>> >> >>4046? (Does a Spice model even exist?) > >Not having a 4046 at hand, and the data sheet is sorely lacking, could >someone measure the voltages at pins 11 and 12, versus VCC? > >Thanks! > > ...Jim Thompson
--- I've got some 4046's in stock, and I'll give you one so you can do the legwork yourself and not have to rely on anyone else's possibly faulty data messing up your results. -- JF
Reply by Jim Thompson August 8, 20122012-08-08
On Tue, 07 Aug 2012 15:42:52 -0400, bitrex
<bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:

>On 8/7/2012 3:27 PM, Jim Thompson wrote: >> I'm honing my Spice modeling skills and need some suggestions of >> devices whose manufacturer-provided Spice model doesn't match reality >> very well, or has serious issues. >> >> I'll try my hand at modeling the device and post my results on these >> newsgroups and on the LTspice list. It would be helpful if, when you >> make a suggestion, you state where and how it fails to match up with >> claimed data sheet performance. >> >> [No real nasty systems-on-a-chip... I want to save those for paying >> customers... and, for now, keep it limited to Analog parts :-] >> >> ...Jim Thompson >> > >4046? (Does a Spice model even exist?)
Not having a 4046 at hand, and the data sheet is sorely lacking, could someone measure the voltages at pins 11 and 12, versus VCC? Thanks! ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat | | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Reply by Fred Abse August 8, 20122012-08-08
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 11:24:52 +0000, Nico Coesel wrote:

> Transistors with avalanche characteristics.
I got there ahead of you ;-) -- "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman)
Reply by Fred Abse August 8, 20122012-08-08
On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 21:16:50 +1000, David Eather wrote:

> On Wed, 08 Aug 2012 05:27:45 +1000, Jim Thompson > <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@on-my-web-site.com> wrote: > >> I'm honing my Spice modeling skills and need some suggestions of devices >> whose manufacturer-provided Spice model doesn't match reality very well, >> or has serious issues. >> >> I'll try my hand at modeling the device and post my results on these >> newsgroups and on the LTspice list. It would be helpful if, when you >> make a suggestion, you state where and how it fails to match up with >> claimed data sheet performance. >> >> [No real nasty systems-on-a-chip... I want to save those for paying >> customers... and, for now, keep it limited to Analog parts :-] >> >> ...Jim Thompson > > Some basic 741's really suck - they can deliver amps with no power supply > draw (I didn't bother to check the rest)
741s suck, period. -- "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." (Richard Feynman)
Reply by Nico Coesel August 8, 20122012-08-08
Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com>
wrote:

>I'm honing my Spice modeling skills and need some suggestions of >devices whose manufacturer-provided Spice model doesn't match reality >very well, or has serious issues. > >I'll try my hand at modeling the device and post my results on these >newsgroups and on the LTspice list. It would be helpful if, when you >make a suggestion, you state where and how it fails to match up with >claimed data sheet performance. > >[No real nasty systems-on-a-chip... I want to save those for paying >customers... and, for now, keep it limited to Analog parts :-]
Transistors with avalanche characteristics. -- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.) --------------------------------------------------------------