krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Dec 2011 10:01:34 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>>> On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:38:22 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 09:38:41 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 17:37:02 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 07:35:25 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 11:22:16 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 19 Dec 2011 09:42:04 -0800, Joerg <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ... Why doesn't Home Depot sell stainless steel deck posts?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Touch to drill. Aluminum would be cheaper and good enough. There is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large market but they fail to see it. Galvanized works well, too, it an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last decades.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Aluminum would be enough of a PITA. Just use decent lumber and it'll probably
>>>>>>>>>>>>> outlast Kalifornica. ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I found that anything I ever built out of aluminum as a kid, including
>>>>>>>>>>>> some outdoor antenna stuff, will most likely even outlast me.
>>>>>>>>>>> If you're no longer there when it goes "phut" what's the difference?
>>>>>>>>>> It'll ding the legacy and posthumous reputation :-)
>>>>>>>>> Oh, and they won't think a real nutcase put in aluminum deck posts? ;-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I saw aluminum posts at the deck of a house I am interested in
>>>>>>>> buying, that would leave a rather positive impression with me. Just like
>>>>>>>> the 2" by 12" beams under our house did.
>>>>>>> It would tell me the moron didn't know what he was doing. What other danger
>>>>>>> lurks. It's *not* the same thing as 2x12s (rather normal construction).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Au contraire. The danger is with wood. Take a close look at a deck, all
>>>>>> those designed-in nooks and crevices where water can pool. That rots out
>>>>>> wood, even pressure-treated stuff after a while. You have to constantly
>>>>>> maintain things. If you don't then people can get killed:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.chrisdhilton.com/newsletters/death_by_deck.htm
>>>>> No, these things are all understood. Wood has been used for decades in
>>>>> millions of homes. Anything "strange" is suspect; the installer was not
>>>>> familiar with standard construction practices. Be very wary.
>>>> Construction is not the problem, maintenance is. With aluminum or
>>>> conrete that problem almost goes away.
>>> Construciton *is* a problem. If your deck is rotting away in a decade it
>>> wasn't built properly. ...
>>
>> It's several decades. But the fact is, once a hous is 30-40 years old
>> you either plunk down $20k++ for a new deck or there'll be constant
>> repairs. The Romans would have laughed about that, their stuff often
>> lasted 100 decades and more.
>
> ...and a waste of resources.
>
Why? You could recycle the rock or brick from a Roman building and make
a new one. They built really good stuff, it's just that this whole
empire thing went to their heads.
>>> ... If it's aluminum, it's a hack. What else is?
>>> Concrete, less so.
>>>
>> If it was aluminum there'd be no problem. Case in Point: Our antenna. It
>> is made from aluminim, it's been up there for many decades, zero
>> maintenance, zero corrosion or rot, looks almost like a new one.
>
> Not the point.
>
To me it is. I like stuff I can build and not have to touch it again for
decades.
>>>> Another big issue with wood frame construction is slow leaks. I knew a
>>>> guy who regularly repaired houses where that happened. The usual, a
>>>> toilet leaks ever so slightly but underneath so nobody sees anything.
>>>> Year after year, drip, drip, drip. Then one sunny day ... ka-crunch ...
>>> "ka-crunch" is that like "phut"?
>>>
>> No, worse :-)
>>
>>
>>>> the bathroom sagged a few inches. All sorts of stuff broke. It had
>>>> rotted a beam and part of the pier underneath. I think that one was a
>>>> high five-digit case because they essentially needed a new bathroom.
>>> Sure but I don't see how that's relevant here, unless you're intending to use
>>> an aluminum commode. ;-)
>>>
>> If the piers and beams were from metal that will corrode little or not
>> at all, or from concrete, then this would not have happpened. The owners
>> would not have seen their retirement nest egg shrivel up.
>
> Come on. It's not that expensive to repair these things.
That case was in the high five digits. For most people on fixed income
that is a whole lotta money. Tile all cracked, of course discontinued
years ago, bathtub hosed, and so on. That bathroom had to be completely
gutted and built up from scratch. After the structural stuff was
repaired, of course, and that cost extra.
Last time I needed a bathroom gut-and-redo I got bids and almost froze.
Took three weeks off and did it myself. It is next to impossible for an
engineer to make this much money in three weeks after taxes.
> ... Building an entire
> house out of aluminum isn't going to do the "nest egg" any good, either.
You don't have to. Use concrete where practical and metal only where needed.
>>>>>>>> Now if the whole structure of the deck was metal and the house was
>>>>>>>> concrete/brick I'd whip out my checkbook.
>>>>>>> No wonder you can't keep your house heated. ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is all wood frame. The house we had before is 1-1/2ft brick, plus
>>>>>> insulation. That used less energy per sqft and had a very nice 2-day
>>>>>> lowpass function so you needed no A/C. It evened out day and night temps
>>>>>> nicely. Best of all, the structure could never burn down and the
>>>>>> maintenance was close to zero.
>>>>> ...but yet you need five cords of wood every year. In Kalifornica!
>>>>>
>>>> Well, this is a 3000sqft home with a rather open architecture and this
>>>> is Norcal where temps reach freezing. We used to live on two cords. That
>>>> was until they called off global warming :-)
>>> The "temps *reach* freezing and you use five cords of wood?! I knew people in
>>> Vermont that used about that and the temps there would sometimes "reach
>>> freezing" from the other side, in the winter. ;-) That house is leaking like
>>> a sieve. :-(
>>
>> It has single-pane windows which doesn't exactly help but is otherwise
>> well insulated. I do not want a fully airtight house like "modern" ones.
>> The air in there gets so stale in the afternoons that I become tired.
>
> Coffee. Walk. Watch daytime television; just one trip through the "guide" in
> the daytime will get you back to work - pronto.
>
The only way was to open the windows and then it got cold very fast. Man
needs a certain amount of oxygen to remain productive.
>> The main reason is that heating periods have lengthened to about six
>> months out here, sometimes more. It used to be as little as 3-4.
>
> Seems you shouldn't have used aluminum framed windows. ;-)
We actually have that. Thus no rot on those.
I remember the wood frame windows we had at our previous house (got rid
of those and had metal-core ones put in). Or the ones at my student
quarters. You had to be on the ladder regularly. The usual, peel,
scrape, sand, cough your lungs out, prime, paint. Then if you are super
lucky one of them decides to warp a little and now you have a real
restore job on your hands. I have better things to do :-)
Wood is a wonderful building material. If it's indoors ...
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/