jurb...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> >" ** Not for ESR it isn't. "
> 
>
> True, but a circuit's tolerance for ESR varies widely.
> A 100 uF with 5 ohms ESR might totally upset one but work fine in another. 
> 

** Listen, you context shifting bloody idiot !!!. 

An ESR test establishes the **condition** of a given electro cos the bastards have a LIMITED service life  !!!!!!

A cap that tests 5 ohms ESR when it ought read 0.5 ohms is totally WORN OUT and needs immediate replacement before it stops working as a cap all together and/or spews electrolyte over the PCB and other components destroying them. 




....   Phil 

>" ** Not for ESR it isn't. "

True, but a circuit's tolerance for ESR varies widely. A 100 uF with 5 ohms ESR might totally upset one but work fine in another. 

The absolute cheapest way is to just get a test cap that is a low rating, say 22 or 33 uF at like 350 volts and bridge it across existing caps at the bottom of the board. totally hillibilly and don't forget to discharge i t every time you use it in another place on the board. It also won't detect a short, but it did work for many years for me and many others.

In article <pf6k34$2iv$1@dont-email.me>, curd@notformail.com says...
> 
> Stop right there! That comment about price applies to everything, not 
> just ESR meters. 
> China sells stuff for a fraction of the price of UK or US or German 
> devices because their labour costs are a fraction of what they are in the 
> West. Peak isn't ripping customers off; they have to pay their workers 
> Western wages! 
> I've bought some great stuff from China; I've also bought a lot of junk, 
> too. It's a bit of a gamble. I'd sooner pay a bit extra and get something 
> well-produced in a proper case with decent technical support a local 
> phone call away than take a gamble on some unknown, uncased, undocumented 
> contraption that takes 3 months to turn up!
> 
> 
> 

The rip off is that Peak sells 2 devices , one for active and one for 
passive.  They could just sell one device to do both.

On 06/05/18 21:24, Phil Allison wrote:
> Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>
>>   Phil Allison wrote:
>>> Phil Hobbs wrote:
>>>
>>>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a nuisance to desolder caps to test them, especially
>>>>>> surface-mount parts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ** There is NO need to do that for ESR testing of electros !!!.
>>>>>
>>>>> ESR meters use low currents and high frequencies ( 100kHz typ ) to asses the impedance near the component's series resonance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Electro failure is indicted by an unusually high reading, compared to similar parts.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's easier to scope the circuit and look for
>>>>>> symptoms of a bad part.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     ** Not for ESR it isn't.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ....  Phil
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Depends where in the circuit. In a power supply or audio output,
>>>> sure--there are probably PN junctions isolating the cap from the rest of
>>>> the circuit when it's powered off.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ** There is no need for any such isolation the test voltage appearing across the electro is lower than any junction threshold.
>>
>> Which was my point.
>>
> 
> ** But not mine. A junction can be in *parallel* with the electro with no effect on ESR measurements. That is not isolation.
> 
> 
>> You can measure them essentially in isolation.
> 
> 
> ** Not only have you never used one, but you are stubbornly refusing to think the situation through.
> 
> What makes these meters SOOOO useful IS their ability to read ESR accurately while the cap IS left in circuit.
> 
> 
>>   
>>>
>>>
>>>> In a low-Z RC circuit, not so much.
>>>
>>>
>>> ** Complete bullshit.
>>>
>>>     Obviously Hobbs has never used one.
>>
>> Do tell, go on, don't hold back now. ;)
>>
> 
> 
>   ** Hunch confirmed.
> 
>> Cheers
> 
> 
>   ** Piss off you pathetic troll.
> 
> 
> 
> ......   Phil
> 
Really, Phil, is that all you've got on tap?

You're slipping, mate.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

-- 
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Phil Hobbs wrote:
>
>  Phil Allison wrote:
> > Phil Hobbs wrote:
> > 
> >>> John Larkin wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> It's a nuisance to desolder caps to test them, especially
> >>>> surface-mount parts.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ** There is NO need to do that for ESR testing of electros !!!.
> >>>
> >>> ESR meters use low currents and high frequencies ( 100kHz typ ) to asses the impedance near the component's series resonance.
> >>>
> >>> Electro failure is indicted by an unusually high reading, compared to similar parts.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> It's easier to scope the circuit and look for
> >>>> symptoms of a bad part.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>    ** Not for ESR it isn't.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ....  Phil
> >>>
> >>
> >> Depends where in the circuit. In a power supply or audio output,
> >> sure--there are probably PN junctions isolating the cap from the rest of
> >> the circuit when it's powered off.
> >>
> > 
>>
> > ** There is no need for any such isolation the test voltage appearing across the electro is lower than any junction threshold.
> 
> Which was my point. 
>

** But not mine. A junction can be in *parallel* with the electro with no effect on ESR measurements. That is not isolation.


> You can measure them essentially in isolation.


** Not only have you never used one, but you are stubbornly refusing to think the situation through.

What makes these meters SOOOO useful IS their ability to read ESR accurately while the cap IS left in circuit.


>  
> > 
> > 
> >> In a low-Z RC circuit, not so much.
> > 
> > 
> > ** Complete bullshit.
> > 
> >    Obviously Hobbs has never used one.
> 
> Do tell, go on, don't hold back now. ;)
> 


 ** Hunch confirmed.

> Cheers


 ** Piss off you pathetic troll. 



.....   Phil 

I would have to agree with you there. It is cheaper but at what cost?
Some People seem to want to die for the second amendment and gun rights but are allowing China to take the country over with out a fight at all. Today Guns are useless its economies that are the weapons.

I purchased an item that was from China unknowingly on Amazon. It was produced by the Original manufacturer but for the Chinese market. I thought well this should be good. However, it turns out when you want support for it you must contact china NOT USA/Canada. They call it gray market and will not touch it.
In fact if you try to install updates from N/A it will break it. And turn it into Chinese language.  So you must contact China, with bad language and poor support.
I will never buy any anything but through N/A or perhaps Britain.
I'm confused why we keep buying things from China, a country that is deliberately try to over through our way of life like Russia and we keep shoveling money at them via companies like Walmart. They are basically an arm of the communists Chinese.

Any way just my stupid opinion.

On Tue, 05 Jun 2018 13:21:48 -0400, Ralph Mowery wrote:

> Peak is ripping people off bigtime.
> 
> The same thing from China can be bought for 

Stop right there! That comment about price applies to everything, not 
just ESR meters. 
China sells stuff for a fraction of the price of UK or US or German 
devices because their labour costs are a fraction of what they are in the 
West. Peak isn't ripping customers off; they have to pay their workers 
Western wages! 
I've bought some great stuff from China; I've also bought a lot of junk, 
too. It's a bit of a gamble. I'd sooner pay a bit extra and get something 
well-produced in a proper case with decent technical support a local 
phone call away than take a gamble on some unknown, uncased, undocumented 
contraption that takes 3 months to turn up!



-- 
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via 
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other 
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of 
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet 
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

In article <5dfdhdltqkvq4q8sbk2uldmuf03uaug766@4ax.com>, 
me@somewhere.invalid says...
> 
> >http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_esr70.html
> 
> Me too, great tool.
> 
> I dug out my ancient model today to check the caps in my burglar alarm,
> as currently being discussed in "Suppress transients on old burglar
> alarm". First use in years. But sadly it's broken. 'Error 5' on
> everything. I phoned Peak and they say at some point I must have applied
> an unacceptable voltage and zapped it. The &#4294967295;28 repair option did not
> guarantee a fix so I've bought a new one for &#4294967295;88 (including express
> delivery). Last one purchased about 20 years ago so reckon I've had good
> value.
> 
> 

Peak is ripping people off bigtime.  

The same thing from China can be bought for under $ 25 and just one of 
those will test the passive components and many solid state devices.

With Peak you have to buy two of them to do it.

Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 10:38:19 -0700, stevwolf58 wrote:
>
>> I dont think i will buy an scope as I would not know how to use it. I
>> also think it falls outside my price range.
>> Are there any inexpensive ESR units?
>> 
>> Also why is it I see many electroic people on the net via utube for
>> example with all sorts of testing equipment Scopes etc. yet they also
>> seem to use Capacitor testers. When would they use them?
>
>They're so much quicker and easier than rigging up a scope to do it. 
>Here's the one I use, i know others here prefer other ones, but IMO this 
>one's hard to beat:
>
>http://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/jz_esr70.html

Me too, great tool.

I dug out my ancient model today to check the caps in my burglar alarm,
as currently being discussed in "Suppress transients on old burglar
alarm". First use in years. But sadly it's broken. 'Error 5' on
everything. I phoned Peak and they say at some point I must have applied
an unacceptable voltage and zapped it. The &#4294967295;28 repair option did not
guarantee a fix so I've bought a new one for &#4294967295;88 (including express
delivery). Last one purchased about 20 years ago so reckon I've had good
value.

BTW, I don't think the Atlas reports ESR does it?

Terry, East Grinstead, UK

On 06/04/2018 08:20 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> Phil Hobbs wrote:
> 
>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's a nuisance to desolder caps to test them, especially
>>>> surface-mount parts.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ** There is NO need to do that for ESR testing of electros !!!.
>>>
>>> ESR meters use low currents and high frequencies ( 100kHz typ ) to asses the impedance near the component's series resonance.
>>>
>>> Electro failure is indicted by an unusually high reading, compared to similar parts.
>>>
>>>
>>>> It's easier to scope the circuit and look for
>>>> symptoms of a bad part.
>>>>
>>>
>>>    ** Not for ESR it isn't.
>>>
>>>
>>> ....  Phil
>>>
>>
>> Depends where in the circuit. In a power supply or audio output,
>> sure--there are probably PN junctions isolating the cap from the rest of
>> the circuit when it's powered off.
>>
> 
> ** There is no need for any such isolation the test voltage appearing across the electro is lower than any junction threshold.

Which was my point.  You can measure them essentially in isolation.

> 
> 
> 
>> In a low-Z RC circuit, not so much.
> 
> 
> ** Complete bullshit.
> 
>    Obviously Hobbs has never used one.

Do tell, go on, don't hold back now. ;)

Cheers



-- 
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net