> On 6/19/2014 2:18 PM, John Fields wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 17:19:00 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
>> <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> wrote:
>>>> In article <b243q9t7gq15ragisjeqisjkn30iib91do@4ax.com>,
>>>> jfields@austininstruments.com says...
>>>>> The resistance of a capacitor is an entirely different thing, and
>>>>> amounts to the leakage current measured through the dielectric with
>>>>> a voltage across it.
>>>>>
>>>>> In terms of goodness, the lower the ESR and the higher the
>>>>> resistance the better.
>>>>>
>>>>> John Fields
>>>>>
>>>> Could you please clarify that a bit? I am only an
>>>> inbred from Maine and I did quite get that one.
>>> If you take an electronic device, even something simple like a battery
>>> there are still losses inside the device from the wiring,
>>> connections and
>>> other electrochemical stuff going on inside the device.
>>>
>>> Those internal losses are what's called ESR. For instance, if you short
>>> out a AAA battery you will get less current than if you short out a D
>>> cell, even though both can in theory output 1.5V. The D cell has
>>> beefier
>>> internal construction and offers a lower internal resistance, so more
>>> current can be drawn from it.
>>>
>>> The tricky part is a battery, (or capacitor or anything really) is
>>> not a
>>> plain resistor, so you can't measure this "equivalent" value with an
>>> ohm
>>> meter, but if you could, the result would be the ESR.
>>>
>>> In capacitors, you generally want the lowest possible ESR. A cap with a
>>> high ESR is old, failing, cheap or just junk, and it can potentially
>>> heat
>>> up during use, just like a resistor. Heat makes electrolytic capacitors
>>> dry up, which increased the ESR, which make them heat up more, until
>>> they
>>> explore or just stop being capacitors.
>> ---
>> Right.
>>
>> They turn into explorers. ;)
>>
>> John Fields
>
> The third picture (schematic) has a slightly simplified schematic of
> a capacitor with it's ESR, leakage and inductance.
>
>> https://www.designworldonline.com/basics-of-tantalum-electrolytic-capacitors/
>>
> I think this may help you understand, and why, each must be measured
> differently.
>
> Mikek
>
>
I must have reversed my date orientation when I answered this. Then I
noted John Fields name and thought,
I think he died! Anyway, I made a fine contribution to a 6 year old
thread.
Mikek
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Reply by amdx●March 1, 20212021-03-01
On 6/19/2014 2:18 PM, John Fields wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 17:19:00 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
> <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
>
>> Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> wrote:
>>> In article <b243q9t7gq15ragisjeqisjkn30iib91do@4ax.com>,
>>> jfields@austininstruments.com says...
>>>> The resistance of a capacitor is an entirely different thing, and
>>>> amounts to the leakage current measured through the dielectric with
>>>> a voltage across it.
>>>>
>>>> In terms of goodness, the lower the ESR and the higher the
>>>> resistance the better.
>>>>
>>>> John Fields
>>>>
>>> Could you please clarify that a bit? I am only an
>>> inbred from Maine and I did quite get that one.
>> If you take an electronic device, even something simple like a battery
>> there are still losses inside the device from the wiring, connections and
>> other electrochemical stuff going on inside the device.
>>
>> Those internal losses are what's called ESR. For instance, if you short
>> out a AAA battery you will get less current than if you short out a D
>> cell, even though both can in theory output 1.5V. The D cell has beefier
>> internal construction and offers a lower internal resistance, so more
>> current can be drawn from it.
>>
>> The tricky part is a battery, (or capacitor or anything really) is not a
>> plain resistor, so you can't measure this "equivalent" value with an ohm
>> meter, but if you could, the result would be the ESR.
>>
>> In capacitors, you generally want the lowest possible ESR. A cap with a
>> high ESR is old, failing, cheap or just junk, and it can potentially heat
>> up during use, just like a resistor. Heat makes electrolytic capacitors
>> dry up, which increased the ESR, which make them heat up more, until they
>> explore or just stop being capacitors.
> ---
> Right.
>
> They turn into explorers. ;)
>
> John Fields
The third picture (schematic) has a slightly simplified schematic of
a capacitor with it's ESR, leakage and inductance.
I think this may help you understand, and why, each must be measured
differently.
Mikek
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Reply by John Fields●June 20, 20142014-06-20
On Fri, 20 Jun 2014 06:57:50 +0100, Charlie+ <charlie@xxx.net>
wrote:
>On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 16:50:40 -0500, "Dave" <db5151@hotmail.com> wrote as
>underneath :
>
>>I have an LCR meter which shows the ESR for electrolytic caps, but I have no
>>idea how to interpret this number. How do you know if a cap is shorted or
>>boardering on that status? I mean, if it gives me a reading of zero Ohms,
>>that's obvious, but what if a small (4.7uF), medium voltage (35V) cap comes
>>up with a reading of, say, 3 Ohms? Is that too low, like I expect, or
>>should it be considered acceptable? I just don't know what a good cap would
>>likely register, and have been surprised in the past when a brand new cap
>>registered a lower ESR than the one I thought was bad. Where can I find
>>info on the subject? Any ideas are welcome.
>>
>>Thanks...
>>
>>Dave
>>
>This might be helpful to you - its a link to the Peak ESR meter
>instruction manual which has a chart on page 9 uF/voltage/ESR approx
>expected in average conditions.
>http://www.peakelec.co.uk/resources/esr60_userguide_en.pdf
>C+
---
That's a keeper! Thanks. :-)
Reply by Charlie+●June 20, 20142014-06-20
On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 16:50:40 -0500, "Dave" <db5151@hotmail.com> wrote as
underneath :
>I have an LCR meter which shows the ESR for electrolytic caps, but I have no
>idea how to interpret this number. How do you know if a cap is shorted or
>boardering on that status? I mean, if it gives me a reading of zero Ohms,
>that's obvious, but what if a small (4.7uF), medium voltage (35V) cap comes
>up with a reading of, say, 3 Ohms? Is that too low, like I expect, or
>should it be considered acceptable? I just don't know what a good cap would
>likely register, and have been surprised in the past when a brand new cap
>registered a lower ESR than the one I thought was bad. Where can I find
>info on the subject? Any ideas are welcome.
>
>Thanks...
>
>Dave
>
On Thu, 19 Jun 2014 17:19:00 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
<presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
>Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> wrote:
>> In article <b243q9t7gq15ragisjeqisjkn30iib91do@4ax.com>,
>> jfields@austininstruments.com says...
>>> The resistance of a capacitor is an entirely different thing, and
>>> amounts to the leakage current measured through the dielectric with
>>> a voltage across it.
>>>
>>> In terms of goodness, the lower the ESR and the higher the
>>> resistance the better.
>>>
>>> John Fields
>>>
>> Could you please clarify that a bit? I am only an
>> inbred from Maine and I did quite get that one.
>
>If you take an electronic device, even something simple like a battery
>there are still losses inside the device from the wiring, connections and
>other electrochemical stuff going on inside the device.
>
>Those internal losses are what's called ESR. For instance, if you short
>out a AAA battery you will get less current than if you short out a D
>cell, even though both can in theory output 1.5V. The D cell has beefier
>internal construction and offers a lower internal resistance, so more
>current can be drawn from it.
>
>The tricky part is a battery, (or capacitor or anything really) is not a
>plain resistor, so you can't measure this "equivalent" value with an ohm
>meter, but if you could, the result would be the ESR.
>
>In capacitors, you generally want the lowest possible ESR. A cap with a
>high ESR is old, failing, cheap or just junk, and it can potentially heat
>up during use, just like a resistor. Heat makes electrolytic capacitors
>dry up, which increased the ESR, which make them heat up more, until they
>explore or just stop being capacitors.
---
Right.
They turn into explorers. ;)
John Fields
Reply by Cydrome Leader●June 19, 20142014-06-19
Maynard A. Philbrook Jr. <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> wrote:
> In article <b243q9t7gq15ragisjeqisjkn30iib91do@4ax.com>,
> jfields@austininstruments.com says...
>> The resistance of a capacitor is an entirely different thing, and
>> amounts to the leakage current measured through the dielectric with
>> a voltage across it.
>>
>> In terms of goodness, the lower the ESR and the higher the
>> resistance the better.
>>
>> John Fields
>>
> Could you please clarify that a bit? I am only an
> inbred from Maine and I did quite get that one.
If you take an electronic device, even something simple like a battery
there are still losses inside the device from the wiring, connections and
other electrochemical stuff going on inside the device.
Those internal losses are what's called ESR. For instance, if you short
out a AAA battery you will get less current than if you short out a D
cell, even though both can in theory output 1.5V. The D cell has beefier
internal construction and offers a lower internal resistance, so more
current can be drawn from it.
The tricky part is a battery, (or capacitor or anything really) is not a
plain resistor, so you can't measure this "equivalent" value with an ohm
meter, but if you could, the result would be the ESR.
In capacitors, you generally want the lowest possible ESR. A cap with a
high ESR is old, failing, cheap or just junk, and it can potentially heat
up during use, just like a resistor. Heat makes electrolytic capacitors
dry up, which increased the ESR, which make them heat up more, until they
explore or just stop being capacitors.
Reply by Phil Allison●June 19, 20142014-06-19
"Jasen Bleats" <jasen@xnet.co.nz>
>
> Phil Allison
>
>><jurb6006@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Actually ESR should be one tenth of Xc or less.
>>>
>>
>> ** Huh ????
>
> Looks like he was aiming for "Zc" but missed
** Now that is the "Dumbest Post of the Year"
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Plop.
.... Phil
Reply by Jasen Betts●June 19, 20142014-06-19
On 2014-06-18, Phil Allison <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote:
>
><jurb6006@gmail.com>
>>
>> Actually ESR should be one tenth of Xc or less.
>>
>
>
> ** Huh ????
Looks like he was aiming for "Zc" but missed
--
umop apisdn
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
Reply by Rick●June 19, 20142014-06-19
"John Fields" <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote in message
news:si75q9p07h0gqirhan0eigcj3p9nj4ghoo@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 17:19:49 -0400, "Maynard A. Philbrook Jr."
> <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> wrote:
>
>>In article <b243q9t7gq15ragisjeqisjkn30iib91do@4ax.com>,
>>jfields@austininstruments.com says...
>>> The resistance of a capacitor is an entirely different thing, and
>>> amounts to the leakage current measured through the dielectric with
>>> a voltage across it.
>>>
>>> In terms of goodness, the lower the ESR and the higher the
>>> resistance the better.
>>>
>>> John Fields
>>>
>> Could you please clarify that a bit? I am only an
>>inbred from Maine and I did quite get that one.
>>
>>Jamie
>
> ---
> If you did "quite get" it, why is clarification necessary?
>
> John Fields
On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 22:24:02 -0400, "Maynard A. Philbrook Jr."
<jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> wrote:
>In article <vib4q9pk9a7ei9sdhcpafe8eqpp91qk0tu@4ax.com>,
>etpm@whidbey.com says...
>>
>> On Wed, 18 Jun 2014 17:19:49 -0400, "Maynard A. Philbrook Jr."
>> <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <b243q9t7gq15ragisjeqisjkn30iib91do@4ax.com>,
>> >jfields@austininstruments.com says...
>> >> The resistance of a capacitor is an entirely different thing, and
>> >> amounts to the leakage current measured through the dielectric with
>> >> a voltage across it.
>> >>
>> >> In terms of goodness, the lower the ESR and the higher the
>> >> resistance the better.
>> >>
>> >> John Fields
>> >>
>> > Could you please clarify that a bit? I am only an
>> >inbred from Maine and I did quite get that one.
>> >
>> >Jamie
>> Greetings Jamie,
>> Though I am only a basics electronics kind of guy I do sorta know
>> this. ESR is Equivalent Series Resistance and plain old resistance is
>> resistance to the flow of DC. So an ohm meter will measure the
>> resistance to DC, which should be high. The ESR is not measured with
>> DC, but with AC. And AC should be able to go through the cap easily
>> while it should block DC. I think I got that right.
>> Eric
>
> You know if "Leakage" resistance was put in the statement, I may have
>understood that.:)
>
>Jamie