> On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 22:56:59 -0800, the renowned Jeff Liebermann
> <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>
>
>>From the graph, it appears that pure tin is the worst, with 60/40
>
>>being a close second. However, if there's any copper in the solder,
>>the copper wire doesn't want to dissolve. I'm not sure what's in the
>>RoHS solder on my bench. The label fell off long ago. I'll find some
>>more that doesn't have copper in it and see what happens.
>>
>>I'll see if I can find some finer wire and try again. I want to see
>>the wire "disappear".
>
>
> The cheap lead-free stuff I have has 0.7% Cu.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Spehro Pefhany
really, the junk I have has 5% in it and it hate it ! ;)
Jamie
Reply by Jamie●February 25, 20132013-02-25
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 16:29:46 -0600, John Fields
> <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
>
>
>>On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 12:36:51 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On 24 Feb 2013 16:47:58 GMT, "Default" <none@noname.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>That is the theory... If you slowly feed something like 32 or higher
>>>>AWG wire onto a hot, heavily tinned, tip you can watch it dissapear.
>>>
>>>I just tried it with one strand from 24 AWG stranded wire, which is
>>>made from 7 strands of 32 AWG. I held the iron on the wire for about
>>>5 minutes and nothing disappeared. Perhaps it's because my soldering
>>>iron tip runs at about 400 C while copper melts at about 1085 C?
>
>
>>It's not so much about the melting point of copper as it about copper
>>dissolving into a molten tin - lead alloy.
>>
>>An analogy might be sugar dissolving into water far below sugar's
>>melting point.
>
>
> Thanks. That makes sense, but I'm still skeptical. So, I tried it
> again, this time with a thicker #28 bare copper wire on both my 750F
> lead-tin (60/40) iron tip and my 850F RoHS tip. 15 minutes of applied
> heat and I get the same result as before... nothing happened (except a
> well tinned piece of wire and a pile of dross).
>
> Digging, I found:
> "Properties of Alloys of Multicore.. Solder Wires"
> <https://www.distrelec.cz/ishop/Datasheets/M-POFA_eng_datasheet.pdf>
> Multicore Savbit Solder is produced especially to
> overcome the problem of ordinary tin/lead solders
> dissolving copper. It is an alloy to which a precise
> amount of copper has been added so that no further
> copper absorption should take place during soldering.
>
> From the graph, it appears that pure tin is the worst, with 60/40
> being a close second. However, if there's any copper in the solder,
> the copper wire doesn't want to dissolve. I'm not sure what's in the
> RoHS solder on my bench. The label fell off long ago. I'll find some
> more that doesn't have copper in it and see what happens.
>
> I'll see if I can find some finer wire and try again. I want to see
> the wire "disappear".
>
Did you first dip the wire tail in acetone to clean off the fibers and
any form of coating on the wire?
After do so, you then use a small amount of flux..
It has worked for me in the past for types of fine wire bundle in fiber
fillers.
Jamie
Reply by default●February 25, 20132013-02-25
On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 12:36:51 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
>On 24 Feb 2013 16:47:58 GMT, "Default" <none@noname.net> wrote:
>
>>That is the theory... If you slowly feed something like 32 or higher
>>AWG wire onto a hot, heavily tinned, tip you can watch it dissapear.
>
>I just tried it with one strand from 24 AWG stranded wire, which is
>made from 7 strands of 32 AWG. I held the iron on the wire for about
>5 minutes and nothing disappeared. Perhaps it's because my soldering
>iron tip runs at about 400 C while copper melts at about 1085 C?
Probably should have said - single strand of soft, >= 32 AWG
UNTINNED copper wire as in "solder ez" magnet wire. 32 will dissolve
(I know) and 41 awg is damn near impossible to solder to. Only thing
that works is "reflow" (tin the part and heat it then touch the wire
to it - or wrap it around a tinned heavier lead with several turns
then reflow. In production quantities flux the part then a quick dip
in a just-skimmed solder pot)
There is a real art to soldering fine gauge wire and litz wire.
Reply by Spehro Pefhany●February 25, 20132013-02-25
On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 22:56:59 -0800, the renowned Jeff Liebermann
<jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>
>From the graph, it appears that pure tin is the worst, with 60/40
>being a close second. However, if there's any copper in the solder,
>the copper wire doesn't want to dissolve. I'm not sure what's in the
>RoHS solder on my bench. The label fell off long ago. I'll find some
>more that doesn't have copper in it and see what happens.
>
>I'll see if I can find some finer wire and try again. I want to see
>the wire "disappear".
The cheap lead-free stuff I have has 0.7% Cu.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Reply by Jeff Liebermann●February 25, 20132013-02-25
On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 16:29:46 -0600, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 12:36:51 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On 24 Feb 2013 16:47:58 GMT, "Default" <none@noname.net> wrote:
>>
>>>That is the theory... If you slowly feed something like 32 or higher
>>>AWG wire onto a hot, heavily tinned, tip you can watch it dissapear.
>>
>>I just tried it with one strand from 24 AWG stranded wire, which is
>>made from 7 strands of 32 AWG. I held the iron on the wire for about
>>5 minutes and nothing disappeared. Perhaps it's because my soldering
>>iron tip runs at about 400 C while copper melts at about 1085 C?
>It's not so much about the melting point of copper as it about copper
>dissolving into a molten tin - lead alloy.
>
>An analogy might be sugar dissolving into water far below sugar's
>melting point.
Thanks. That makes sense, but I'm still skeptical. So, I tried it
again, this time with a thicker #28 bare copper wire on both my 750F
lead-tin (60/40) iron tip and my 850F RoHS tip. 15 minutes of applied
heat and I get the same result as before... nothing happened (except a
well tinned piece of wire and a pile of dross).
Digging, I found:
"Properties of Alloys of Multicore.. Solder Wires"
<https://www.distrelec.cz/ishop/Datasheets/M-POFA_eng_datasheet.pdf>
Multicore Savbit Solder is produced especially to
overcome the problem of ordinary tin/lead solders
dissolving copper. It is an alloy to which a precise
amount of copper has been added so that no further
copper absorption should take place during soldering.
From the graph, it appears that pure tin is the worst, with 60/40
being a close second. However, if there's any copper in the solder,
the copper wire doesn't want to dissolve. I'm not sure what's in the
RoHS solder on my bench. The label fell off long ago. I'll find some
more that doesn't have copper in it and see what happens.
I'll see if I can find some finer wire and try again. I want to see
the wire "disappear".
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Reply by John Fields●February 24, 20132013-02-24
On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 12:36:51 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
>On 24 Feb 2013 16:47:58 GMT, "Default" <none@noname.net> wrote:
>
>>That is the theory... If you slowly feed something like 32 or higher
>>AWG wire onto a hot, heavily tinned, tip you can watch it dissapear.
>
>I just tried it with one strand from 24 AWG stranded wire, which is
>made from 7 strands of 32 AWG. I held the iron on the wire for about
>5 minutes and nothing disappeared. Perhaps it's because my soldering
>iron tip runs at about 400 C while copper melts at about 1085 C?
---
It's not so much about the melting point of copper as it about copper
dissolving into a molten tin - lead alloy.
An analogy might be sugar dissolving into water far below sugar's
melting point.
--
JF
Reply by Jeff Liebermann●February 24, 20132013-02-24
On 24 Feb 2013 16:47:58 GMT, "Default" <none@noname.net> wrote:
>That is the theory... If you slowly feed something like 32 or higher
>AWG wire onto a hot, heavily tinned, tip you can watch it dissapear.
I just tried it with one strand from 24 AWG stranded wire, which is
made from 7 strands of 32 AWG. I held the iron on the wire for about
5 minutes and nothing disappeared. Perhaps it's because my soldering
iron tip runs at about 400 C while copper melts at about 1085 C?
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Reply by Default●February 24, 20132013-02-24
On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 16:26:03 -0500,
micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:vqcii858f6mpboih7h3kft1ipmnk4v0io4@4ax.com
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:56:28 -0500, default <none@noname.net> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 00:50:00 -0800, DaveC <invalid@invalid.net> wrote:
> >
> >>> Plan A: Find a short length of very fine uninsulated wire. A single
> >>> strand from some stranded wire is what I use. Wrap it around the
> >>> insulation about 2 times, and then continue wrapping around the tinsel
> >>> wire. Clip off the excess at the end. Solder the wrapped wire to the
> >>> replacement connector.
> >>
> >>Sounds good.
> >>
> >>> Plan B: Buy a new iPod earphone. They're cheaper than the replacment
> >>> connector.
> >>
> >>Not using it as earbuds. Just re-purposing the cord for a corded
> >>single-earphone-with-mic unit. Have both, and am an avid "not to the
landfill
> >>will you go" kind of guy...
> >>
> >>And beside, I'll learn something new (ie, soldering tinsel wire).
> >>
> >>Dave
> >
> >Another problem with very fine wire is that it dissolves in solder.
>
> Is this for the same reason solder tips dissolve in solder (slowly).
That is the theory... If you slowly feed something like 32 or higher
AWG wire onto a hot, heavily tinned, tip you can watch it dissapear.
>
> I only use resin core, never acid core, and still the tips disappear
> after years. I wouldn't mind except I had trouble finding new
> screw-on tips a few years ago, because in the hobbyist-priced irons
> they've gone back to screw-in tips.
>
> >They do make/sell solders with high copper content to deal with that.
> >Ersin "savebit" is one such (sold with the idea that soldering iron
> >bits will dissolve or erode more slowly if the solder already contains
> >copper.
>
Reply by micky●February 23, 20132013-02-23
On Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:56:28 -0500, default <none@noname.net> wrote:
>On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 00:50:00 -0800, DaveC <invalid@invalid.net> wrote:
>
>>> Plan A: Find a short length of very fine uninsulated wire. A single
>>> strand from some stranded wire is what I use. Wrap it around the
>>> insulation about 2 times, and then continue wrapping around the tinsel
>>> wire. Clip off the excess at the end. Solder the wrapped wire to the
>>> replacement connector.
>>
>>Sounds good.
>>
>>> Plan B: Buy a new iPod earphone. They're cheaper than the replacment
>>> connector.
>>
>>Not using it as earbuds. Just re-purposing the cord for a corded
>>single-earphone-with-mic unit. Have both, and am an avid "not to the landfill
>>will you go" kind of guy...
>>
>>And beside, I'll learn something new (ie, soldering tinsel wire).
>>
>>Dave
>
>Another problem with very fine wire is that it dissolves in solder.
Is this for the same reason solder tips dissolve in solder (slowly).
I only use resin core, never acid core, and still the tips disappear
after years. I wouldn't mind except I had trouble finding new
screw-on tips a few years ago, because in the hobbyist-priced irons
they've gone back to screw-in tips.
>They do make/sell solders with high copper content to deal with that.
>Ersin "savebit" is one such (sold with the idea that soldering iron
>bits will dissolve or erode more slowly if the solder already contains
>copper.
Reply by Phil Hobbs●February 23, 20132013-02-23
On 2/22/2013 11:52 AM, Jim Thompson wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2013 08:44:21 -0800, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 10:16:08 -0700, Jim Thompson
>> <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 09:05:25 -0800, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 21 Feb 2013 06:41:32 -0800 (PST), George Herold
>>>> <gherold@teachspin.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 21, 2:06 am, DaveC <inva...@invalid.net> wrote:
>>>>>> This is one conductor in a cable from some iPod earphones:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.tinyuploads.com/images/mizPu4.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the best way to deal with the fibre strands and to tin the wire?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> I did something like that... I just teased the wire away from the
>>>>> fibers, cut the fibers, and the enamel on the wire burned off from the
>>>>> heat of the soldering iron.
>>>>>
>>>>> George H.
>>>> I don't even bother to try to tease the fibers away. I just get a good
>>>> blob of solder on the tip of the iron and push the wire into it. In my
>>>> experience everything burns away except the wire.
>>>> Eric
>>>
>>> That works for "SolderEze" coated wire. Regular Formvar doesn't
>>> dissolve in solder.
>>>
>>> ...Jim Thompson
>> The enamel and the fibers don't dissolve in the solder, they just burn
>> away. And it's not instant, the removal of the varnish and tinning of
>> the strands. Sometimes I need to add more solder as the varnish and
>> fibers burn away. I've never heard of SolderEze coated wire. It sounds
>> like useful stuff. I'm gonna look for some.
>> Thanks,
>> Eric
>
> It may not even exist anymore. I last used it in 1987, when I was at
> GenRad, Phoenix.
>
> I found this link....
>
> http://www.avrfreaks.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=printview&t=44715&start=0
>
> which implies it's no more.
>
> ...Jim Thompson
>
Interesting. I find that they still sell "solderable Beldsol", which is
specified to solder without stripping at 750 F. A bit hotter iron than
usual, but no blue flames required.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 USA
+1 845 480 2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net