Hello,

The dutch goverment wants it's citizens to always carry their identification 
cards with them.

Different dutch goverment websites mention there is a chip in these 
identification cards and can be read by a machine.

It never mentions the range of these cards/chips.

So again I ask the question:

What is the transmit range of these cards ?

Again I am worried about leaking information to criminals on the street.

Bye,
  Skybuck. 

"Skybuck Flying" <B...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:83ea2$496ba3e9$d5337e4d$1...@cache6.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
> Hello,
>
> The dutch goverment wants it's citizens to always carry their
identification
> cards with them.
>
> Different dutch goverment websites mention there is a chip in these
> identification cards and can be read by a machine.
>
> It never mentions the range of these cards/chips.
>
> So again I ask the question:
>
> What is the transmit range of these cards ?
>
> Again I am worried about leaking information to criminals on the street.
>
> Bye,
>   Skybuck.
>

Activating a card has a fairly limited range, if you dont want to fry things
to far within the intended range and be noticed in the process.

Eavesdropping on an exchange with a legitimate reader may be possible to
10-20 meters, depending on the environmental noise and the ability to hide
the somewhat unwieldy antennas.

Wim

Skybuck Flying wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> The dutch goverment wants it's citizens to always carry their identification 
> cards with them.
> 
> Different dutch goverment websites mention there is a chip in these 
> identification cards and can be read by a machine.
> 
> It never mentions the range of these cards/chips.
> 
> So again I ask the question:
> 
> What is the transmit range of these cards ?
> 
> Again I am worried about leaking information to criminals on the street.

The transmission is mostley encrypted, but there are some flaws.
It is posible to detect the country of origin from the person. So it is 
posible to make a smart bom, just killing americans.

-- 
pim.

Pim Schaeffer wrote:

> Skybuck Flying wrote:
>> Hello,
>> 
>> The dutch goverment wants it's citizens to always carry their
>> identification cards with them.
>> 
>> Different dutch goverment websites mention there is a chip in these
>> identification cards and can be read by a machine.
>> 
>> It never mentions the range of these cards/chips.
>> 
>> So again I ask the question:
>> 
>> What is the transmit range of these cards ?
>> 
>> Again I am worried about leaking information to criminals on the street.
> 
> The transmission is mostley encrypted, but there are some flaws.
> It is posible to detect the country of origin from the person. So it is
> posible to make a smart bom, just killing americans.
> 

Actually, according to what I have read, Americans are relatively difficult
to detect (at least by interrogating the RFID in their passports), because
unlike most other countries they had the foresight to include a sheet of
aluminium foil on a different page to the chip (though they insist on
calling it aluminum for some reason).  Therefore it is much more difficult
to interrogate their passports unless the pages are open.

People from other countries might be well advised to insert a sheet of foil
in their passports (or put the passport in a foil envelope).  It probably
still doesn't completely prevent unwanted access, but the miscreants would
have to use much more transmit power and the range would be less.

Chris

"Skybuck Flying" <B...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht 
news:83ea2$496ba3e9$d5337e4d$1...@cache6.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
> Hello,
>
> The dutch goverment wants it's citizens to always carry their 
> identification cards with them.
>
> Different dutch goverment websites mention there is a chip in these 
> identification cards and can be read by a machine.
>
> It never mentions the range of these cards/chips.
>
> So again I ask the question:
>
> What is the transmit range of these cards ?
>
> Again I am worried about leaking information to criminals on the street.

Stop worrying.

Throw in the microwave oven
Set it on 10 seconds or something,
click da button and voila.... your rf chip is broken.

more then 30 seconds will probably burn your id card.
which you probably will have to pay a fine for. 

Chris Jones wrote:

> 
> Actually, according to what I have read, Americans are relatively difficult
> to detect (at least by interrogating the RFID in their passports), because
> unlike most other countries they had the foresight to include a sheet of
> aluminium foil on a different page to the chip (though they insist on
> calling it aluminum for some reason).


   It was called 'aluminum' before the British changed it to 'aluminium'
in their infinte ignorance.


-- 
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

Skybuck Flying wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> The dutch goverment wants it's citizens to always carry their identification 
> cards with them.
> 
> Different dutch goverment websites mention there is a chip in these 
> identification cards and can be read by a machine.
> 
> It never mentions the range of these cards/chips.
> 
> So again I ask the question:
> 
> What is the transmit range of these cards ?
> 
> Again I am worried about leaking information to criminals on the street.
> 
> Bye,
>   Skybuck. 
> 
> 
   Well, if you carry one of those around, you will GET IN DUTCH!

"Skybuck Flying" <B...@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:83ea2$496ba3e9$d5337e4d$1...@cache6.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
> Hello,
>
> The dutch goverment wants it's citizens to always carry their 
> identification cards with them.
>
> Different dutch goverment websites mention there is a chip in these 
> identification cards and can be read by a machine.
>
> It never mentions the range of these cards/chips.
>
> So again I ask the question:
>
> What is the transmit range of these cards ?
>
> Again I am worried about leaking information to criminals on the street.
>
> Bye,
>  Skybuck.

If it's the Smartcard RFID IC's I am thinking of then the  range ~ 10cm for 
typical reader design.

Read range performance varies with
- Antenna Diameter  - large the better
- Amount of RF transmit power that can be pumped in to the RFID reader 
antenna. to energise the smart card.
- How sensitive the reader is with RF stray noise

RFID smartcard data is highly encrypted with security keys - so the long 
term probability of deciphering the information from card is very very very 
remote.

There are much easier ways of getting personal data from people.

Joe

Robert Baer <r...@localnet.com> wrote in
news:m...@posted.localnet: 

> Skybuck Flying wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> The dutch goverment wants it's citizens to always carry their
>> identification cards with them.
>> 
>> Different dutch goverment websites mention there is a chip in these 
>> identification cards and can be read by a machine.
>> 
>> It never mentions the range of these cards/chips.
>> 
>> So again I ask the question:
>> 
>> What is the transmit range of these cards ?
>> 
>> Again I am worried about leaking information to criminals on the
>> street. 
>> 
>> Bye,
>>   Skybuck. 
>> 
>> 
>    Well, if you carry one of those around, you will GET IN DUTCH!
> 

Shield it,just keep the passport in a closed foil bag.
If it can't be interrogated,it can't be read.

Passive RFID range is around less than a foot.

-- 
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

> There are much easier ways of getting personal data from people.

Not on the street.

I tell wacko's to take a hike ;) and that's when I am being nice.

Bye,
  Skybuck.