Any idea how much just the backlight plus PSU on (say) a 22" LCD costs? 
And what it's output is?

-- 
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

On Jul 25, 9:23=A0am, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Any idea how much just the backlight plus PSU on (say) a 22" LCD costs?
> And what it's output is?

JKL Components (some stock available through Mouser) makes
some backlights and power supplies.  Price might be $3 for a large
manufacturer, closer to $15 for a 'repair' part.

See <http://www.jkllamps.com/index.cfm?action=3Dfam&tid=3D2&fID=3D45>;
 for instance

Replacement in a large display is VERY tedious, your coupling to
the panel is critical and fractions of a millimeter matter very much.
Many large LCDs are crimped, and without a replacement sheetmetal
frame, you will be re-crimping a workhardened metal element when
you reassemble- possible, but tricky.   Generally, letting the
manufacturer 'remanufacture' the display is the easiest replacement
option.  Prepare to spend hundreds, or live without the display
for a few days if there's a warranty.

Large displays often have two lamps, one at the top and another at the
bottom, which must match.  If one burns out, replacement requires
two parts.   Some manufacturers recommend the inverter be replaced
when a lamp fails (the lamp failure can overstress the inverter).

whit3rd wrote:
> On Jul 25, 9:23 am, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Any idea how much just the backlight plus PSU on (say) a 22" LCD costs?
>> And what it's output is?
> 
> JKL Components (some stock available through Mouser) makes
> some backlights and power supplies.  Price might be $3 for a large
> manufacturer, closer to $15 for a 'repair' part.
> 
> See <http://www.jkllamps.com/index.cfm?action=fam&tid=2&fID=45>;
>  for instance
> 
> Replacement in a large display is VERY tedious, your coupling to
> the panel is critical and fractions of a millimeter matter very much.
> Many large LCDs are crimped, and without a replacement sheetmetal
> frame, you will be re-crimping a workhardened metal element when
> you reassemble- possible, but tricky.   Generally, letting the
> manufacturer 'remanufacture' the display is the easiest replacement
> option.  Prepare to spend hundreds, or live without the display
> for a few days if there's a warranty.
> 
> Large displays often have two lamps, one at the top and another at the
> bottom, which must match.  If one burns out, replacement requires
> two parts.   Some manufacturers recommend the inverter be replaced
> when a lamp fails (the lamp failure can overstress the inverter).

I was wondering whether it might be used to make a lighting panel for 
general illumination purposes. No LCD to block the light.

-- 
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
> 
> whit3rd wrote:
> > On Jul 25, 9:23 am, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> Any idea how much just the backlight plus PSU on (say) a 22" LCD costs?
> >> And what it's output is?
> >
> > JKL Components (some stock available through Mouser) makes
> > some backlights and power supplies.  Price might be $3 for a large
> > manufacturer, closer to $15 for a 'repair' part.
> >
> > See <http://www.jkllamps.com/index.cfm?action=fam&tid=2&fID=45>;
> >  for instance
> >
> > Replacement in a large display is VERY tedious, your coupling to
> > the panel is critical and fractions of a millimeter matter very much.
> > Many large LCDs are crimped, and without a replacement sheetmetal
> > frame, you will be re-crimping a workhardened metal element when
> > you reassemble- possible, but tricky.   Generally, letting the
> > manufacturer 'remanufacture' the display is the easiest replacement
> > option.  Prepare to spend hundreds, or live without the display
> > for a few days if there's a warranty.
> >
> > Large displays often have two lamps, one at the top and another at the
> > bottom, which must match.  If one burns out, replacement requires
> > two parts.   Some manufacturers recommend the inverter be replaced
> > when a lamp fails (the lamp failure can overstress the inverter).
> 
> I was wondering whether it might be used to make a lighting panel for
> general illumination purposes. No LCD to block the light.

I'm not sure what sort of efficiency the diffusers they use have.
Perhaps some of the folks in the lighting n.g. know.

I've seen the diffuser panel material for sale, somewhere on line. You
could probably adapt standard fluorescent lamps and ballasts to edge
light this and it would produce a uniform intensity (if this is what you
are after) from a rather thin assembly (if this is what you are after). 

-- 
Paul Hovnanian	p...@hovnanian.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have gnu, will travel.

Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:
> Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>> whit3rd wrote:
>>> On Jul 25, 9:23 am, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Any idea how much just the backlight plus PSU on (say) a 22" LCD costs?
>>>> And what it's output is?
>>> JKL Components (some stock available through Mouser) makes
>>> some backlights and power supplies.  Price might be $3 for a large
>>> manufacturer, closer to $15 for a 'repair' part.
>>>
>>> See <http://www.jkllamps.com/index.cfm?action=fam&tid=2&fID=45>;
>>>  for instance
>>>
>>> Replacement in a large display is VERY tedious, your coupling to
>>> the panel is critical and fractions of a millimeter matter very much.
>>> Many large LCDs are crimped, and without a replacement sheetmetal
>>> frame, you will be re-crimping a workhardened metal element when
>>> you reassemble- possible, but tricky.   Generally, letting the
>>> manufacturer 'remanufacture' the display is the easiest replacement
>>> option.  Prepare to spend hundreds, or live without the display
>>> for a few days if there's a warranty.
>>>
>>> Large displays often have two lamps, one at the top and another at the
>>> bottom, which must match.  If one burns out, replacement requires
>>> two parts.   Some manufacturers recommend the inverter be replaced
>>> when a lamp fails (the lamp failure can overstress the inverter).
>> I was wondering whether it might be used to make a lighting panel for
>> general illumination purposes. No LCD to block the light.
> 
> I'm not sure what sort of efficiency the diffusers they use have.
> Perhaps some of the folks in the lighting n.g. know.
> 
> I've seen the diffuser panel material for sale, somewhere on line. You
> could probably adapt standard fluorescent lamps and ballasts to edge
> light this and it would produce a uniform intensity (if this is what you
> are after) from a rather thin assembly (if this is what you are after). 
> 

Or better, use one of the commercial LED replacements for conventional 
lights, maybe.

-- 
Dirk

http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.theconsensus.org/ - A UK political party
http://www.onetribe.me.uk/wordpress/?cat=5 - Our podcasts on weird stuff

On Jul 25, 12:39=A0pm, "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <p...@hovnanian.com> wrote:
> Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > whit3rd wrote:
> > > On Jul 25, 9:23 am, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >> Any idea how much just the backlight plus PSU on (say) a 22" LCD cos=
ts?
> > >> And what it's output is?
>
> > > JKL Components (some stock available through Mouser) makes
> > > some backlights and power supplies. =A0Price might be $3 for a large
> > > manufacturer, closer to $15 for a 'repair' part.
>
> > > See <http://www.jkllamps.com/index.cfm?action=3Dfam&tid=3D2&fID=3D45>;
> > > =A0for instance
>
> > > Replacement in a large display is VERY tedious, your coupling to
> > > the panel is critical and fractions of a millimeter matter very much.
> > > Many large LCDs are crimped, and without a replacement sheetmetal
> > > frame, you will be re-crimping a workhardened metal element when
> > > you reassemble- possible, but tricky. =A0 Generally, letting the
> > > manufacturer 'remanufacture' the display is the easiest replacement
> > > option. =A0Prepare to spend hundreds, or live without the display
> > > for a few days if there's a warranty.
>
> > > Large displays often have two lamps, one at the top and another at th=
e
> > > bottom, which must match. =A0If one burns out, replacement requires
> > > two parts. =A0 Some manufacturers recommend the inverter be replaced
> > > when a lamp fails (the lamp failure can overstress the inverter).
>
> > I was wondering whether it might be used to make a lighting panel for
> > general illumination purposes. No LCD to block the light.
>
> I'm not sure what sort of efficiency the diffusers they use have.
> Perhaps some of the folks in the lighting n.g. know.
>
> I've seen the diffuser panel material for sale, somewhere on line. You
> could probably adapt standard fluorescent lamps and ballasts to edge
> light this and it would produce a uniform intensity (if this is what you
> are after) from a rather thin assembly (if this is what you are after).
>
> --
> Paul Hovnanian =A0p...@hovnanian.com
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Have gnu, will travel.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I'm catching this thread from Pauls crosspost to sci.engr.lighting, so
I'm not totally sure of the original authors intent here, but most
backlights are terribly inefficient.  The diffusers used in these
applications are tailored for use with polarized light (see vikuiti
DBEF from 3M) to improve performance for LCD applications.  They would
be less than ideal for use in general lighting and would create a very
low system efficiency.  Your illumination output would be very dim
compared to a bare light bulb in this case.

On Jul 25, 12:23=A0pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I was wondering whether it might be used to make a lighting panel for
> general illumination purposes. No LCD to block the light.

I guess that could be done... but the efficiency is lower than a good
fluorescent fixture and ballast.

Raw EL (electroluminescent) panels are available if that's what you
want. Many years ago I built giant 7-segement displays
run from 200VAC out of cut-up EL panels :-). That was fun!

Tim.

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:48:43 -0700 (PDT), Tim Shoppa
<s...@trailing-edge.com> wrote:

>On Jul 25, 12:23 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>> I was wondering whether it might be used to make a lighting panel for
>> general illumination purposes. No LCD to block the light.
>
>I guess that could be done... but the efficiency is lower than a good
>fluorescent fixture and ballast.
>
>Raw EL (electroluminescent) panels are available if that's what you
>want. Many years ago I built giant 7-segement displays
>run from 200VAC out of cut-up EL panels :-). That was fun!
>
>Tim.

I have been working with 15" sinlight readable displays, 50W, 12 CCFL
tubes.

With all diffusers, sheets, polarizers and lcd removed, one gets an
very impressive lightsource.

Wheather it is more efficient then a "conventional"  50W tube&ballast
system I do not dare to comment, but there is no way one could cram
this much light in that small 15" area / volume. Only thin ccfl's can
do that.

On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 21:52:25 +0200, Blarp <d...@bother.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 11:48:43 -0700 (PDT), Tim Shoppa
><s...@trailing-edge.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jul 25, 12:23 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>> I was wondering whether it might be used to make a lighting panel for
>>> general illumination purposes. No LCD to block the light.
>>
>>I guess that could be done... but the efficiency is lower than a good
>>fluorescent fixture and ballast.
>>
>>Raw EL (electroluminescent) panels are available if that's what you
>>want. Many years ago I built giant 7-segement displays
>>run from 200VAC out of cut-up EL panels :-). That was fun!
>>
>>Tim.
>
>I have been working with 15" sinlight readable displays, 50W, 12 CCFL
>tubes.

I've heard of work lights and book lights, but that's a new one on me.
>
>With all diffusers, sheets, polarizers and lcd removed, one gets an
>very impressive lightsource.
>
>Wheather it is more efficient then a "conventional"  50W tube&ballast
>system I do not dare to comment, but there is no way one could cram
>this much light in that small 15" area / volume. Only thin ccfl's can
>do that.
Best regards, 
Spehro Pefhany
-- 
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
s...@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

Tim Shoppa wrote:

> On Jul 25, 12:23 pm, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax <dirk.bru...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I was wondering whether it might be used to make a lighting panel for
> > general illumination purposes. No LCD to block the light.
>
> I guess that could be done... but the efficiency is lower than a good
> fluorescent fixture and ballast.
>
> Raw EL (electroluminescent) panels are available if that's what you
> want. Many years ago I built giant 7-segement displays
> run from 200VAC out of cut-up EL panels :-). That was fun!

EL panels have IME miserable lifetime though.

Graham