Does an USB stick gain weight when you put files on it?
or to put it a different way:
Are electrons from outside used to store data on an USB stick?

Since I'm quite new to electronics I cannot give a logical explanation. 
  I searched a lot on the web and I found the folowing data:

• Flash memory uses the Fowler–Nordheim tunneling principle to charge a 
thin oxide layer
• Excited electrons are pushed through and trapped on other side of a 
thin oxide layer, giving it a negative charge
• The negative charge give the floating-gate transistor a value of '1' 
or '0'

Although I can imagine how the principle works, I do not fully 
understand the exact technics.

USB sticks need power supply to read and alter the data on it. But when 
information is added, has the amount of electrons increased?

Consider the stick is fully empty at the beginning (all transistors are 
not negatively charged and thus have the status of '1')

Bert

"Bert Harleman" <b...@bytegraag.nl> wrote in message 
news:b5959$4b2a9cb8$5039815f$1...@news.chello.nl...
>
> Does an USB stick gain weight when you put files on it?
> or to put it a different way:
> Are electrons from outside used to store data on an USB stick?
>
> Since I'm quite new to electronics I cannot give a logical explanation. I 
> searched a lot on the web and I found the folowing data:
>
> • Flash memory uses the Fowler–Nordheim tunneling principle to charge a 
> thin oxide layer
> • Excited electrons are pushed through and trapped on other side of a thin 
> oxide layer, giving it a negative charge
> • The negative charge give the floating-gate transistor a value of '1' or 
> '0'
>
> Although I can imagine how the principle works, I do not fully understand 
> the exact technics.
>
> USB sticks need power supply to read and alter the data on it. But when 
> information is added, has the amount of electrons increased?
>
> Consider the stick is fully empty at the beginning (all transistors are 
> not negatively charged and thus have the status of '1')
>
> Bert

Is a charged capacitor heavier than an uncharged one?

Tom 

Bert Harleman wrote:
> Does an USB stick gain weight when you put files on it?
> or to put it a different way:
> Are electrons from outside used to store data on an USB stick?
>
> Since I'm quite new to electronics I cannot give a logical explanation.
>   I searched a lot on the web and I found the folowing data:
>
> • Flash memory uses the Fowler–Nordheim tunneling principle to charge a
> thin oxide layer
> • Excited electrons are pushed through and trapped on other side of a
> thin oxide layer, giving it a negative charge
> • The negative charge give the floating-gate transistor a value of '1'
> or '0'
>
> Although I can imagine how the principle works, I do not fully
> understand the exact technics.
>
> USB sticks need power supply to read and alter the data on it. But when
> information is added, has the amount of electrons increased?
>
> Consider the stick is fully empty at the beginning (all transistors are
> not negatively charged and thus have the status of '1')
>
> Bert

The USB device will remain overall neutral in charge, else
it would soon attract or repel the appropriate charge
from/to its environment and neutralize.  So don't look for
added or removed electrons for a change in weight.

Instead, consider that there is some energy storage in the
form of binding energy for the trapped electrons in the
gates.  This energy will have some equivalent mass via
E = m*c^2.  It'll be all but unmeasurable.

On Dec 17, 4:07=A0pm, "Tom Biasi" <tombi...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "Bert Harleman" <b...@bytegraag.nl> wrote in message
>
> news:b5959$4b2a9cb8$5039815f$1...@news.chello.nl...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Does an USB stick gain weight when you put files on it?
> > or to put it a different way:
> > Are electrons from outside used to store data on an USB stick?
>
> > Since I'm quite new to electronics I cannot give a logical explanation.=
 I
> > searched a lot on the web and I found the folowing data:
>
> > =95 Flash memory uses the Fowler=96Nordheim tunneling principle to char=
ge a
> > thin oxide layer
> > =95 Excited electrons are pushed through and trapped on other side of a=
 thin
> > oxide layer, giving it a negative charge
> > =95 The negative charge give the floating-gate transistor a value of '1=
' or
> > '0'
>
> > Although I can imagine how the principle works, I do not fully understa=
nd
> > the exact technics.
>
> > USB sticks need power supply to read and alter the data on it. But when
> > information is added, has the amount of electrons increased?
>
> > Consider the stick is fully empty at the beginning (all transistors are
> > not negatively charged and thus have the status of '1')
>
> > Bert
>
> Is a charged capacitor heavier than an uncharged one?
>
> Tom- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hmm, I'm going to say it's heavier when it's charged.  I've had to do
some work to move the chagres around and that energy is stored in the
electric field.  Lets say a 1 Farad cap charged to 1 kV.  an enregy of
1 Mega Joule (I ignored the 1/2 term.)  Call c^2 =3D 10^17 and that's
10^-11 kg or 10^-8 grams.... going be pretty hard to measure on my
micro balance.

George H.

> Hmm, I'm going to say it's heavier when it's charged.  I've had to do
> some work to move the chagres around and that energy is stored in the
> electric field.  Lets say a 1 Farad cap charged to 1 kV.  an enregy of
> 1 Mega Joule (I ignored the 1/2 term.)  Call c^2 = 10^17 and that's
> 10^-11 kg or 10^-8 grams.... going be pretty hard to measure on my
> micro balance.
> 
> George H.

I reckon if there is a difference in weight it will be utterly small
But it's more about the principle of the system in Flash memory

Does a human body lose weight at the moment of death?  One investigator made 
measurements and stated that it does.  He determined the weight of the human 
soul by his technique. 

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:03:30 +0100, Bert Harleman <b...@bytegraag.nl>
wrote:

>
>Does an USB stick gain weight when you put files on it?
>or to put it a different way:
>Are electrons from outside used to store data on an USB stick?
>
>Since I'm quite new to electronics I cannot give a logical explanation. 
>  I searched a lot on the web and I found the folowing data:
>
>• Flash memory uses the Fowler–Nordheim tunneling principle to charge a 
>thin oxide layer
>• Excited electrons are pushed through and trapped on other side of a 
>thin oxide layer, giving it a negative charge
>• The negative charge give the floating-gate transistor a value of '1' 
>or '0'
>
>Although I can imagine how the principle works, I do not fully 
>understand the exact technics.
>
>USB sticks need power supply to read and alter the data on it. But when 
>information is added, has the amount of electrons increased?
>
>Consider the stick is fully empty at the beginning (all transistors are 
>not negatively charged and thus have the status of '1')

---
In a word, "yes".

JF 

"George Herold" <g...@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:a...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 17, 4:07 pm, "Tom Biasi" <tombi...@optonline.net> wrote:


.... going be pretty hard to measure on my
micro balance.

George H.

Charged one in one hand, uncharged one in the other hand, close your eyes 
and move them up and down a little.
You should be able to tell.

Tom

On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:03:30 +0100, Bert Harleman wrote:

> Does an USB stick gain weight when you put files on it? or to put it a
> different way:
> Are electrons from outside used to store data on an USB stick?
> 
> Since I'm quite new to electronics I cannot give a logical explanation.
>   I searched a lot on the web and I found the folowing data:
> 
> • Flash memory uses the Fowler–Nordheim tunneling principle to charge a
> thin oxide layer
> • Excited electrons are pushed through and trapped on other side of a
> thin oxide layer, giving it a negative charge • The negative charge give
> the floating-gate transistor a value of '1' or '0'
> 
> Although I can imagine how the principle works, I do not fully
> understand the exact technics.
> 
> USB sticks need power supply to read and alter the data on it. But when
> information is added, has the amount of electrons increased?
> 
> Consider the stick is fully empty at the beginning (all transistors are
> not negatively charged and thus have the status of '1')
> 
No, the amount of electrons is not, on the whole, going to increase.  
You're injecting electrons into the gates of the MOSFETs, but you're 
taking them out of the nearby semiconductor.

The gate of a 'written' flash cell does have some stored energy, so the 
memory stick will -- in theory -- get heavier, to the tune of E = mc^2.  
But you'll probably scrape more mass onto or off of the thing plugging it 
into and out of your computer than you add by writing all those cells.

-- 
www.wescottdesign.com

On Dec 17, 1:03=A0pm, Bert Harleman <b...@bytegraag.nl> wrote:
> Does an USB stick gain weight when you put files on it?
> or to put it a different way:
> Are electrons from outside used to store data on an USB stick?

> USB sticks need power supply to read and alter the data on it. But when
> information is added, has the amount of electrons increased?
>
> Consider the stick is fully empty at the beginning (all transistors are
> not negatively charged and thus have the status of '1')

Firstly, any REAL memory stick will be fully programmed, either
zero or one, in all cells, before you get it.  There isn't any way to
know if 'zero' is low-field-energy or if 'one' is low-field-energy,
unless you have insight into the internal architecture
of the stick.

Space unused for files is often filled with a pattern to aid in
quick checks of system integrity, hexadecimal 'feedface'
and the like are highly likely patterns for a no-data-here
flash drive's empty blocks.

The total count of 'zero' or 'one' bits does have some associated
energy, thus a very small amount of mass can be changed.  But this
is not associated with  'information' directly, any non-information-
content
random pattern with the same number of bits in the ON and OFF state
will be the same energy content.