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Sci.Electronics.Basics -> Continuous Operation From Grid-Battery Tractors
There are 23 messages in this thread.
You are currently looking at messages 1 to 20.
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Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. Battery cost is
2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or in
some areas already below the cost of diesel.
Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
every few minutes. 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for
almost all farm operations.
For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2 gallons
of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric tractor,
each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact wires at the
ends of the field.
When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the
left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the
outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can
be picked up on the next lap.
The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field
when the left hand U turn is made.
Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
recycled much less frequently than motor oil.
If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective
than replacing with diesel.
There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of
solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be cheaper
to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the grid, either
by trolley wiring the entire field or with something like a pivot
structure to deliver the power to a tractor.
The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits at
the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest easiest
electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just a way to
get started.
Bret Cahill
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Author: John LarkinDate: 16:06 28-07-08
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On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:09:10 -0700 (PDT), BretCahill@peoplepc.com
wrote:
>Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. Battery cost is
>2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or in
>some areas already below the cost of diesel.
>
>Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
>density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
>every few minutes. 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for
>almost all farm operations.
>
>For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
>equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2 gallons
>of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric tractor,
>each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact wires at the
>ends of the field.
>
>When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the
>left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the
>outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can
>be picked up on the next lap.
>
>The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field
>when the left hand U turn is made.
>
>Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
>recycled much less frequently than motor oil.
>
>If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective
>than replacing with diesel.
>
>There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of
>solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be cheaper
>to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the grid, either
>by trolley wiring the entire field or with something like a pivot
>structure to deliver the power to a tractor.
>
>The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits at
>the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest easiest
>electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just a way to
>get started.
>
>
>Bret Cahill
>
Have you presented these ideas to any actual farmers?
John
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Author: Rod SpeedDate: 17:07 28-07-08
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BretCahill@peoplepc.com wrote:
> Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid.
Another number plucked out of your arse. We can tell that from the smell.
> Battery cost is 2X - 3X grid cost
Another number plucked out of your arse. We can tell that from the smell.
> and the combination is just now about equal to or
> in some areas already below the cost of diesel.
Another number plucked out of your arse. We can tell that from the smell.
> Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy density
> is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge every few minutes.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never
ever had a fucking clue about farming, or anything else at all, either.
> 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for almost all farm operations.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never
ever had a fucking clue about farming, or anything else at all, either.
> For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine equivalent,
> two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2 gallons of diesel
> -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric tractor, each with a
> vertical conductor mounted on top to contact wires at the ends of the field.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never
ever had a fucking clue about farming, or anything else at all, either.
> When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the
> field the left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After
> the U turn the outrigger drops off the discharged battery
> for charging where it can be picked up on the next lap.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never
ever had a fucking clue about farming, or anything else at all, either.
> The right side battery is swapped out at the other
> end of the field when the left hand U turn is made.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never
ever had a fucking clue about farming, or anything else at all, either.
You cant charge the batterys quick enough with this hare brained scheme, fool.
> Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed
> and recycled much less frequently than motor oil.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never
ever had a fucking clue about farming, or anything else at all, either.
> If such a system was available now, it would be
> more cost effective than replacing with diesel.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never
ever had a fucking clue about farming, or anything else at all, either.
It makes a hell of a lot more sense to grow biodiesel instead, fool.
No modification to the machinery at all.
> There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of solutions.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never
ever had a fucking clue about farming, or anything else at all, either.
Anyone with a clue will use biodiesel.
> In the long run for some applications, it might be cheaper
> to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the grid,
> either by trolley wiring the entire field or with something
> like a pivot structure to deliver the power to a tractor.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never
ever had a fucking clue about farming, or anything else at all, either.
> The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits at the end
> of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest easiest electric tractor
> to prototype and demonstrate. It was just a way to get started.
Anyone with a clue will use biodiesel.
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Author: Rod SpeedDate: 17:08 28-07-08
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John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:09:10 -0700 (PDT), BretCahill@peoplepc.com
> wrote:
>
>> Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. Battery cost is
>> 2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or
>> in some areas already below the cost of diesel.
>>
>> Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
>> density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
>> every few minutes. 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for
>> almost all farm operations.
>>
>> For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
>> equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2
>> gallons of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric
>> tractor, each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact
>> wires at the ends of the field.
>>
>> When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the
>> left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the
>> outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can
>> be picked up on the next lap.
>>
>> The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field
>> when the left hand U turn is made.
>>
>> Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
>> recycled much less frequently than motor oil.
>>
>> If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective
>> than replacing with diesel.
>>
>> There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of
>> solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be
>> cheaper to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the
>> grid, either by trolley wiring the entire field or with something
>> like a pivot structure to deliver the power to a tractor.
>>
>> The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits
>> at the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest
>> easiest electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just
>> a way to get started.
> Have you presented these ideas to any actual farmers?
Have a heart, you want them to die laughing ?
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Author: Don BoweyDate: 20:01 28-07-08
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On 7/28/08 10:09 AM, in article
46f5284c-4fe6-4590-aa0d-c2934a024ce2@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com,
"BretCahill@peoplepc.com" <BretCahill@peoplepc.com> wrote:
> Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. Battery cost is
> 2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or in
> some areas already below the cost of diesel.
>
> Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
> density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
> every few minutes.
How tiny do you perceive commercial farm fields to be that batteries can be
charged "every few minutes?"
> 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for
> almost all farm operations.
>
> For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
> equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2 gallons
> of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric tractor,
> each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact wires at the
> ends of the field.
>
> When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the
> left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the
> outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can
> be picked up on the next lap.
>
> The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field
> when the left hand U turn is made.
>
> Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
> recycled much less frequently than motor oil.
>
> If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective
> than replacing with diesel.
>
> There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of
> solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be cheaper
> to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the grid, either
> by trolley wiring the entire field or with something like a pivot
> structure to deliver the power to a tractor.
>
> The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits at
> the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest easiest
> electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just a way to
> get started.
>
>
> Bret Cahill
>
>
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Author: John FieldsDate: 20:57 28-07-08
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On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:01:52 -0700, Don Bowey <dbowey@comcast.net>
wrote:
>How tiny do you perceive commercial farm fields to be that batteries can be
>charged "every few minutes?"
---
Yup.
In the end, this "Brett Cahill" persona seems to be nothing more than
a troll.
JF
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Author: Rod SpeedDate: 21:05 28-07-08
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John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote
> Don Bowey <dbowey@comcast.net> wrote
>> How tiny do you perceive commercial farm fields to
>> be that batteries can be charged "every few minutes?"
And it isnt even possible to charge them that quickly either.
> Yup.
> In the end, this "Brett Cahill" persona seems to be nothing more than a
troll.
He's not a troll, just another silly little child that doesnt have a clue about the
basics.
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Author: Don BoweyDate: 21:36 28-07-08
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On 7/28/08 6:05 PM, in article 6f78mjFa5criU1@mid.individual.net, "Rod
Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote
>> Don Bowey <dbowey@comcast.net> wrote
>
>>> How tiny do you perceive commercial farm fields to
>>> be that batteries can be charged "every few minutes?"
>
> And it isnt even possible to charge them that quickly either.
I imagine his fix for that is to "just" have more spares available.
>
>> Yup.
>
>> In the end, this "Brett Cahill" persona seems to be nothing more than
a
>> troll.
>
> He's not a troll, just another silly little child that doesnt have a clue
> about the basics.
>
>
He appears to be a wannabe wheeler dealer. From viewing his activity on
other topics, my impression is he thinks he's an idea man.
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Author: Rod SpeedDate: 22:02 28-07-08
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Don Bowey <dbowey@comcast.net> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote
>>> Don Bowey <dbowey@comcast.net> wrote
>>>> How tiny do you perceive commercial farm fields to
>>>> be that batteries can be charged "every few minutes?"
>> And it isnt even possible to charge them that quickly either.
> I imagine his fix for that is to "just" have more spares available.
Wouldnt work.
>>> Yup.
>>> In the end, this "Brett Cahill" persona seems to be nothing more
than a troll.
>> He's not a troll, just another silly little child that doesnt have a clue about
the basics.
> He appears to be a wannabe wheeler dealer.
Nope, no suggestion of whats necessary for that.
> From viewing his activity on other topics, my impression is he thinks he's an idea
man.
Not a shred of evidence that he's actually capable of thought either.
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Author: John LarkinDate: 22:50 28-07-08
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On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 07:08:26 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:09:10 -0700 (PDT), BretCahill@peoplepc.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. Battery cost is
>>> 2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or
>>> in some areas already below the cost of diesel.
>>>
>>> Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
>>> density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
>>> every few minutes. 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for
>>> almost all farm operations.
>>>
>>> For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
>>> equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2
>>> gallons of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric
>>> tractor, each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact
>>> wires at the ends of the field.
>>>
>>> When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the
>>> left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the
>>> outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can
>>> be picked up on the next lap.
>>>
>>> The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field
>>> when the left hand U turn is made.
>>>
>>> Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
>>> recycled much less frequently than motor oil.
>>>
>>> If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective
>>> than replacing with diesel.
>>>
>>> There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of
>>> solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be
>>> cheaper to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the
>>> grid, either by trolley wiring the entire field or with something
>>> like a pivot structure to deliver the power to a tractor.
>>>
>>> The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits
>>> at the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest
>>> easiest electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just
>>> a way to get started.
>
>> Have you presented these ideas to any actual farmers?
>
>Have a heart, you want them to die laughing ?
>
I've spent a little time on farms. Farmers are generally pretty
inventive people, and are inclined to try all sorts of things to
improve productivity or just have fun. It's impossible that some
goodly number of them haven't already considered all sorts of options
to save energy, electrically or otherwise.
Bret hasn't filled us in on his experience with farming, or electrical
engineering, or mechanical design.
John
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> Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. =EF=BF=BDBattery cost=
is
> 2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or in
> some areas already below the cost of diesel.
>
> Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
> density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
> every few minutes. =EF=BF=BD90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density=
for
> almost all farm operations.
>
> For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
> equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2 gallons
> of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric tractor,
> each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact wires at the
> ends of the field.
>
> When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the
> left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. =EF=BF=BDAfter the U turn th=
e
> outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can
> be picked up on the next lap.
>
> The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field
> when the left hand U turn is made.
>
> Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
> recycled much less frequently than motor oil.
>
> If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective
> than replacing with diesel.
>
> There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of
> solutions. =EF=BF=BDIn the long run for some applications, it might be ch=
eaper
> to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the grid, either
> by trolley wiring the entire field or with something like a pivot
> structure to deliver the power to a tractor.
>
> The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits at
> the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest easiest
> electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. =EF=BF=BDIt was just a way=
to
> get started.
> Bret Cahill
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Author: Rod SpeedDate: 23:55 28-07-08
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John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote
>>> BretCahill@peoplepc.com wrote
>>>> Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. Battery cost
>>>> is 2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal
>>>> to or in some areas already below the cost of diesel.
>>>>
>>>> Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
>>>> density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
>>>> every few minutes. 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density
>>>> for almost all farm operations.
>>>>
>>>> For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
>>>> equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2
>>>> gallons of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the
>>>> electric tractor, each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to
>>>> contact wires at the ends of the field.
>>>>
>>>> When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the
>>>> left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the
>>>> outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it
>>>> can be picked up on the next lap.
>>>>
>>>> The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field
>>>> when the left hand U turn is made.
>>>>
>>>> Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
>>>> recycled much less frequently than motor oil.
>>>>
>>>> If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective
>>>> than replacing with diesel.
>>>>
>>>> There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds
>>>> of solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be
>>>> cheaper to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the
>>>> grid, either by trolley wiring the entire field or with something
>>>> like a pivot structure to deliver the power to a tractor.
>>>>
>>>> The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits
>>>> at the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest
>>>> easiest electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just
>>>> a way to get started.
>>> Have you presented these ideas to any actual farmers?
>> Have a heart, you want them to die laughing ?
> I've spent a little time on farms. Farmers are generally
> pretty inventive people, and are inclined to try all sorts
> of things to improve productivity or just have fun.
And tend to be pretty scathing about loons like Brat.
> It's impossible that some goodly number of them haven't already
> considered all sorts of options to save energy, electrically or otherwise.
Corse it is, particularly with the price of diesel what it is currently.
Doesnt mean that they wouldnt die laughing at the Brat's hare brained scheme tho.
> Bret hasn't filled us in on his experience with farming,
> or electrical engineering, or mechanical design.
Its obviously zero. That stands out like dogs balls.
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Author: Rod SpeedDate: 23:56 28-07-08
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Respewing this mindless silly shit cuts no mustard.
BretCahill@peoplepc.com wrote:
>> Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. ?Battery cost is
>> 2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or
>> in some areas already below the cost of diesel.
>>
>> Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
>> density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
>> every few minutes. ?90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for
>> almost all farm operations.
>>
>> For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
>> equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2
>> gallons of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric
>> tractor, each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact
>> wires at the ends of the field.
>>
>> When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the
>> left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. ?After the U turn the
>> outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can
>> be picked up on the next lap.
>>
>> The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field
>> when the left hand U turn is made.
>>
>> Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
>> recycled much less frequently than motor oil.
>>
>> If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective
>> than replacing with diesel.
>>
>> There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of
>> solutions. ?In the long run for some applications, it might be
>> cheaper to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the
>> grid, either by trolley wiring the entire field or with something
>> like a pivot structure to deliver the power to a tractor.
>>
>> The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits
>> at the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest
>> easiest electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. ?It was just
>> a way to get started.
>
>
>> Bret Cahill
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Please elaborate on that quantitatively and show your work.
Totally huge.
Pathetic.
No way.
Cite?
I see no calculations or worked sums there.
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> I've spent a little time on farms. Farmers are generally pretty
> inventive people, and are inclined to try all sorts of things to
> improve productivity or just have fun.
Cite?
Please elaborate on that quantitatively and show your work.
Totally huge.
Pathetic.
No way.
I see no calculations or worked sums there.
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Author: Don BoweyDate: 02:07 29-07-08
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Author: Don BoweyDate: 02:12 29-07-08
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On 7/28/08 9:25 PM, in article
41d37076-31f2-472e-a360-b7324c856a6c@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com,
"BretCahill@peoplepc.com" <BretCahill@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>> I've spent a little time on farms. Farmers are generally pretty
>> inventive people, and are inclined to try all sorts of things to
>> improve productivity or just have fun.
>
> Cite?
>
> Please elaborate on that quantitatively and show your work.
>
> Totally huge.
>
> Pathetic.
>
> No way.
>
> I see no calculations or worked sums there.
>
>
Do your own research, dummy. It's your project and we aren't your gofers.
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Author: Bill WardDate: 02:46 29-07-08
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On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:50:54 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 07:08:26 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:09:10 -0700 (PDT), BretCahill@peoplepc.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. Battery cost is
>>>> 2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal to or in
>>>> some areas already below the cost of diesel.
>>>>
>>>> Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
>>>> density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
>>>> every few minutes. 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density for
>>>> almost all farm operations.
>>>>
>>>> For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
>>>> equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2 gallons
>>>> of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the electric tractor,
>>>> each with a vertical conductor mounted on top to contact wires at the
>>>> ends of the field.
>>>>
>>>> When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field the
>>>> left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U turn the
>>>> outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging where it can
>>>> be picked up on the next lap.
>>>>
>>>> The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the field
>>>> when the left hand U turn is made.
>>>>
>>>> Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
>>>> recycled much less frequently than motor oil.
>>>>
>>>> If such a system was available now, it would be more cost effective
>>>> than replacing with diesel.
>>>>
>>>> There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all kinds of
>>>> solutions. In the long run for some applications, it might be cheaper
>>>> to eliminate the battery cost and run straight from the grid, either
>>>> by trolley wiring the entire field or with something like a pivot
>>>> structure to deliver the power to a tractor.
>>>>
>>>> The original single battery single wire idea where the driver waits at
>>>> the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute cheapest easiest
>>>> electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate. It was just a way to
>>>> get started.
>>
>>> Have you presented these ideas to any actual farmers?
>>
>>Have a heart, you want them to die laughing ?
>>
>>
> I've spent a little time on farms. Farmers are generally pretty inventive
> people, and are inclined to try all sorts of things to improve
> productivity or just have fun. It's impossible that some goodly number of
> them haven't already considered all sorts of options to save energy,
> electrically or otherwise.
>
> Bret hasn't filled us in on his experience with farming, or electrical
> engineering, or mechanical design.
Actually, I think he has, but somewhat indirectly.
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Author: Rod SpeedDate: 02:54 29-07-08
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Bill Ward <bward@REMOVETHISix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:50:54 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 07:08:26 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:09:10 -0700 (PDT), BretCahill@peoplepc.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Diesel power is now almost 4X the cost of the grid. Battery cost
>>>>> is 2X - 3X grid cost and the combination is just now about equal
>>>>> to or in some areas already below the cost of diesel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unlike electric road vehicles and plug in hybrids, battery energy
>>>>> density is not much an issue with farm tractors which can recharge
>>>>> every few minutes. 90 watt/kg is more than enough energy density
>>>>> for almost all farm operations.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, for a 400 HP articulated diesel tractor engine
>>>>> equivalent, two 350 LB batteries -- about the same energy as 2
>>>>> gallons of diesel -- are cantilevered off both sides of the
>>>>> electric tractor, each with a vertical conductor mounted on top
>>>>> to contact wires at the ends of the field.
>>>>>
>>>>> When the tractor reaches the right hand U turn end of the field
>>>>> the left outrigger picks up a recharged battery. After the U
>>>>> turn the outrigger drops off the discharged battery for charging
>>>>> where it can be picked up on the next lap.
>>>>>
>>>>> The right side battery is swapped out at the other end of the
>>>>> field when the left hand U turn is made.
>>>>>
>>>>> Depending on use the batteries last a month or so, changed and
>>>>> recycled much less frequently than motor oil.
>>>>>
>>>>> If such a system was available now, it would be more cost
>>>>> effective than replacing with diesel.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are all kinds of farm situations and there will be all
>>>>> kinds of solutions. In the long run for some applications, it
>>>>> might be cheaper to eliminate the battery cost and run straight
>>>>> from the grid, either by trolley wiring the entire field or with
>>>>> something like a pivot structure to deliver the power to a
>>>>> tractor.
>>>>>
>>>>> The original single battery single wire idea where the driver
>>>>> waits at the end of the field for a recharge was the absolute
>>>>> cheapest easiest electric tractor to prototype and demonstrate.
>>>>> It was just a way to get started.
>>>
>>>> Have you presented these ideas to any actual farmers?
>>>
>>> Have a heart, you want them to die laughing ?
>>>
>>>
>> I've spent a little time on farms. Farmers are generally pretty
>> inventive people, and are inclined to try all sorts of things to
>> improve productivity or just have fun. It's impossible that some
>> goodly number of them haven't already considered all sorts of
>> options to save energy, electrically or otherwise.
>>
>> Bret hasn't filled us in on his experience with farming, or
>> electrical engineering, or mechanical design.
> Actually, I think he has,
'think' again. No one who had could ever come up with such a hare brained battery swap
scheme.
> but somewhat indirectly.
Only by eating the products of the farming.
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Author: John FieldsDate: 08:41 29-07-08
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On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:50:54 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 07:08:26 +1000, "Rod Speed"
><rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>John Larkin <jjlarkin@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>>> Have you presented these ideas to any actual farmers?
>>
>>Have a heart, you want them to die laughing ?
>>
>
>I've spent a little time on farms. Farmers are generally pretty
>inventive people, and are inclined to try all sorts of things to
>improve productivity or just have fun. It's impossible that some
>goodly number of them haven't already considered all sorts of options
>to save energy, electrically or otherwise.
>
>Bret hasn't filled us in on his experience with farming, or electrical
>engineering, or mechanical design.
---
You can't fill a glass from an empty pitcher. ;)
JF
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