 |
Search Sci.Electronics.Basics |
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
Sci.Electronics.Basics -> Dry dead battery
There are 23 messages in this thread.
You are currently looking at messages 1 to 20.
|
Author: rabiticideDate: 17:01 30-06-08
|
|
I was charging my battery over the weekend and checked it last night
to find the battery dead as a doornail. Upon examination, the battery
is completely dry. I'm guessing it was overcharged and the water
boiled away but it shouldn't've 'cause it's an "automatic battery
charger" that's designed to stop charging when it's done...
So, do I just add distilled H2O? Will that work? I have to walk to the
store 1.5 miles (2.5 km) away and that's a long way to carry 1 gallon
(4? L) of water...
rK
|
|
|
|
Author: Tom BiasiDate: 17:11 30-06-08
|
|
"rabiticide" <rabiticide@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0b9bdaa6-84d6-4b39-b64f-85ab5e295a77@w1g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>I was charging my battery over the weekend and checked it last night
> to find the battery dead as a doornail. Upon examination, the battery
> is completely dry. I'm guessing it was overcharged and the water
> boiled away but it shouldn't've 'cause it's an "automatic battery
> charger" that's designed to stop charging when it's done...
>
> So, do I just add distilled H2O? Will that work? I have to walk to the
> store 1.5 miles (2.5 km) away and that's a long way to carry 1 gallon
> (4? L) of water...
>
>
> rK
How far do you have to walk with your new battery?
Tom
|
|
|
|
Author: John FieldsDate: 17:28 30-06-08
|
|
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:01:56 -0700 (PDT), rabiticide
<rabiticide@gmail.com> wrote:
>I was charging my battery over the weekend and checked it last night
>to find the battery dead as a doornail. Upon examination, the battery
>is completely dry. I'm guessing it was overcharged and the water
>boiled away but it shouldn't've 'cause it's an "automatic battery
>charger" that's designed to stop charging when it's done...
>
>So, do I just add distilled H2O? Will that work? I have to walk to the
>store 1.5 miles (2.5 km) away and that's a long way to carry 1 gallon
>(4? L) of water...
---
I'd just use tap water...
JF
|
|
|
|
Author: rabiticideDate: 17:31 30-06-08
|
|
new battery? what do you mean?
rK
|
|
|
|
Author: terrySDate: 18:11 30-06-08
|
|
On Jun 30, 7:28=A0pm, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:01:56 -0700 (PDT), rabiticide
>
> <rabitic...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I was charging my battery over the weekend and checked it last night
> >to find the battery dead as a doornail. Upon examination, the battery
> >is completely dry. I'm guessing it was overcharged and the water
> >boiled away but it shouldn't've 'cause it's an "automatic battery
> >charger" that's designed to stop charging when it's done...
>
> >So, do I just add distilled H2O? Will that work? I have to walk to the
> >store 1.5 miles (2.5 km) away and that's a long way to carry 1 gallon
> >(4? L) of water...
>
> ---
> I'd just use tap water...
>
> JF
Depends on the tap (or well!) water.
Wells and some mains water here can have some iron salts in it which
can be deadly for lead acid batteries.
Sounds like it 'boiled dry'! You may, by adding water, get some
capacity back but I wouldn't guarantee it.
Too many amps for too long a time, maybe?
Someone more expert could comment on this; but isn'tan automatic
charger supposed to stop when the battery potential has risen above a
certain value, maybe for a certain period of time. If the battery is
dry ............... ergo no potential!
Therefore no automaticity?
|
|
|
|
Author: Jonathan KirwanDate: 18:33 30-06-08
|
|
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:01:56 -0700 (PDT), rabiticide
<rabiticide@gmail.com> wrote:
>I was charging my battery over the weekend and checked it last night
>to find the battery dead as a doornail. Upon examination, the battery
>is completely dry. I'm guessing it was overcharged and the water
>boiled away but it shouldn't've 'cause it's an "automatic battery
>charger" that's designed to stop charging when it's done...
>
>So, do I just add distilled H2O? Will that work? I have to walk to the
>store 1.5 miles (2.5 km) away and that's a long way to carry 1 gallon
>(4? L) of water...
I assume that this is a car battery of some kind where you can open up
the holes and look inside? It might have been dry or close to it
before you started charging and you should have looked before starting
the charging cycle on it.
And yes, you do want to add _distilled_ water. I gather you don't
want to walk to the store just to drag back a gallon of it if there is
another option.
"Automatic" chargers doesn't mean much, except that they are supposed
to be easy to use -- which says little about their quality as a
charger or what they might do when faced with a battery that isn't in
reasonable condition to start with.
Water under the bridge, though. You are now faced with a dead battery
that is basically dry inside and has been attached to a charger for a
weekend of charging which was started, apparently, without the battery
being in good condition to start or else where the charger itself may
have damaged the battery (or some combo of those.) In other words,
the battery's condition itself is in serious question now and there is
no certainty that distilled water will restore it. I also gather that
this is the car battery for your only transporation means, which is
why you need to walk to the store.
Normally, fresh lead acid batteries have nice clean lead plates with a
solution of H2SO4 (sulfuric acid, which is a thickish liquid in pure
form at standard temperature and pressure) and H2O (water.) I recall
vaguely that H2SO4 boils around 300C, or so. H20 at 100C, obviously.
So if you boiled off the water with the charger, it might leave the
H2SO4 still inside the battery. If that were the case, and assuming
that the lead plates themselves weren't shorting out each other by way
of poor regrowth, you might be able to recover your battery by adding
distilled water to it. But you seem to say that it is _dry_, and this
implies to me that you might also have boiled away the H2SO4, as well.
In that case, I'm not sure what to suggest. In the best of cases
then, you'd still need a supply of H2SO4 as well as the distilled
water. Which means just getting some water won't help a lot.
I'd probably just get some tap water, let it sit in the open for a few
hours to allow some of the added chlorine (or not, your choice) to
leave, and then use that in your battery and just plan on replacing
it, if you are lucky enough to get it working at all. Either way, I
think you are facing replacing your current battery, though. It's
probably not wise for your only source of transportation to be
depending on a battery that has been through this kind of trauma.
Jon
|
|
|
|
Author: Tom BiasiDate: 18:49 30-06-08
|
|
"rabiticide" <rabiticide@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:42798064-e8c7-4097-92dd-481d023f862e@w4g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> new battery? what do you mean?
>
> rK
I mean you need a new one.
You most likely fried the battery.
If the plates are warped or other damage typical of cooking dry you will not
be able to save this battery.
Sure, you can try, the odds are low.
That's why I asked if you wanted to walk twice.
If you have any good beer in you fridge, tell a neighbor he can have a few
cold ones if he would give you a ride to your new battery.
Sorry for the levity, well not really.
Good Luck,
Tom
|
|
|
|
Author: John FieldsDate: 18:50 30-06-08
|
|
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 15:11:22 -0700 (PDT), terryS
<tsanford@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>On Jun 30, 7:28 pm, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:01:56 -0700 (PDT), rabiticide
>>
>> <rabitic...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >I was charging my battery over the weekend and checked it last night
>> >to find the battery dead as a doornail. Upon examination, the battery
>> >is completely dry. I'm guessing it was overcharged and the water
>> >boiled away but it shouldn't've 'cause it's an "automatic battery
>> >charger" that's designed to stop charging when it's done...
>>
>> >So, do I just add distilled H2O? Will that work? I have to walk to the
>> >store 1.5 miles (2.5 km) away and that's a long way to carry 1 gallon
>> >(4? L) of water...
>>
>> ---
>> I'd just use tap water...
>>
>> JF
>
>Depends on the tap (or well!) water.
>Wells and some mains water here can have some iron salts in it which
>can be deadly for lead acid batteries.
---
Oh well...
The choice is using what's on hand or walking a couple of miles to get
what might not matter anyway.
---
>Sounds like it 'boiled dry'! You may, by adding water, get some
>capacity back but I wouldn't guarantee it.
>Too many amps for too long a time, maybe?
>Someone more expert could comment on this; but isn'tan automatic
>charger supposed to stop when the battery potential has risen above a
>certain value, maybe for a certain period of time. If the battery is
>dry ............... ergo no potential!
>Therefore no automaticity?
---
Maybe. There may be a point where the pH of the electrolyte gets
acidic enough, from boiloff, that the battery voltage drops to the
point where it fools the charger into thinking that more current is
the trick and the charger responds by giving the battery what it says
it needs, and kills it.
I don't know, but maybe someone who does can post something about
lead-acid battery voltage VS electrolyte pH.
JF
|
|
|
|
Author: rabiticideDate: 20:06 30-06-08
|
|
It's my motorcycle battery and it's the situation where I need it to
get to this job so I can afford to fix it. I just came off disability
and with $4 to my name I spent $2 on a gallon of distilled water...
So I am going to try it and see what happens. I will post my
results....
Isn't H2SO4 a solid? I don't know - I'm thinking of, like, NaOH which
dissolves in water to make the base.
I'll ask on sci.chem and see...
Here goes...
|
|
|
|
Author: Jonathan KirwanDate: 20:29 30-06-08
|
|
On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:06:09 -0700 (PDT), rabiticide
<rabiticide@gmail.com> wrote:
>It's my motorcycle battery and it's the situation where I need it to
>get to this job so I can afford to fix it. I just came off disability
>and with $4 to my name I spent $2 on a gallon of distilled water...
Okay. It sounded like that kind of situation. I've been there in my
life, too, so I can feel your pain.
>So I am going to try it and see what happens. I will post my
>results....
If there doesn't appear to be _any_ sulfuric acid inside, then I don't
hold out much hope here. But best luck, anyway.
>Isn't H2SO4 a solid? I don't know - I'm thinking of, like, NaOH which
>dissolves in water to make the base.
><snip>
NaOH is a solid. White, and kind of slippery to the touch. But
sulfuric acid is a liquid. I've used it, before, as part of a double
boiler situation that could achieve the higher melting points I needed
at the time while also providing very, very even heating which was
also necessary for the rocket fuel I was making then.
Jon
|
|
|
|
Author: ehsjrDate: 00:39 01-07-08
|
|
terryS wrote:
> On Jun 30, 7:28 pm, John Fields <jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:01:56 -0700 (PDT), rabiticide
>>
>><rabitic...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I was charging my battery over the weekend and checked it last night
>>>to find the battery dead as a doornail. Upon examination, the battery
>>>is completely dry. I'm guessing it was overcharged and the water
>>>boiled away but it shouldn't've 'cause it's an "automatic battery
>>>charger" that's designed to stop charging when it's done...
>>
>>>So, do I just add distilled H2O? Will that work? I have to walk to the
>>>store 1.5 miles (2.5 km) away and that's a long way to carry 1 gallon
>>>(4? L) of water...
>>
>>---
>>I'd just use tap water...
>>
>>JF
>
>
> Depends on the tap (or well!) water.
> Wells and some mains water here can have some iron salts in it which
> can be deadly for lead acid batteries.
> Sounds like it 'boiled dry'! You may, by adding water, get some
> capacity back but I wouldn't guarantee it.
> Too many amps for too long a time, maybe?
> Someone more expert could comment on this; but isn'tan automatic
> charger supposed to stop when the battery potential has risen above a
> certain value, maybe for a certain period of time. If the battery is
> dry ............... ergo no potential!
> Therefore no automaticity?
Suppose a cell was shorted - battery V wouldn't rise high
enough for the automatic charger to shut off.
Ed
|
|
|
|
Author: George JetsonDate: 14:25 01-07-08
|
|
"Jonathan Kirwan" <jkirwan@easystreet.com> wrote in message
news:1cui64tp3blo98q3cuekdkbq8mqm64sgnv@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:06:09 -0700 (PDT), rabiticide
> <rabiticide@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>It's my motorcycle battery and it's the situation where I need it to
>>get to this job so I can afford to fix it. I just came off disability
>>and with $4 to my name I spent $2 on a gallon of distilled water...
>
> Okay. It sounded like that kind of situation. I've been there in my
> life, too, so I can feel your pain.
>
>>So I am going to try it and see what happens. I will post my
>>results....
>
> If there doesn't appear to be _any_ sulfuric acid inside, then I don't
> hold out much hope here. But best luck, anyway.
>
>>Isn't H2SO4 a solid? I don't know - I'm thinking of, like, NaOH which
>>dissolves in water to make the base.
>><snip>
>
> NaOH is a solid. White, and kind of slippery to the touch. But
> sulfuric acid is a liquid. I've used it, before, as part of a double
> boiler situation that could achieve the higher melting points I needed
> at the time while also providing very, very even heating which was
> also necessary for the rocket fuel I was making then.
>
> Jon
Depending on local weather conditions, rain water should woek as well.
--
They can have my command prompt when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
|
|
|
|
Author: rabiticideDate: 14:41 01-07-08
|
|
Battery now works!!!
I put distilled water into my dry, dead battery, then I charged it,
and it cranks beautifully and started my motorcycle!!!
The conducty thingies (anodes and cathodes?) don't go all the way down
so I think I boiled the water down to that level at which point the
contact was broken and the overcharging stopped. This is my
hypothesis. The H2SO4 didn't go anywhere because it was below that
level and has a much higher boiling point than water.
I was asking guys over at the motorcycle group and they were saying
that a lot of battery chargers are too powerful for motorcycle
batteries. Thanks for the help!!
rK
|
|
|
|
Author: christofireDate: 15:45 01-07-08
|
|
"rabiticide" <rabiticide@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:75c1d0cb-82e4-4396-9990-6257eb53051f@q24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> Battery now works!!!
> I put distilled water into my dry, dead battery, then I charged it,
> and it cranks beautifully and started my motorcycle!!!
>
> The conducty thingies (anodes and cathodes?) don't go all the way down
> so I think I boiled the water down to that level at which point the
> contact was broken and the overcharging stopped. This is my
> hypothesis. The H2SO4 didn't go anywhere because it was below that
> level and has a much higher boiling point than water.
>
> I was asking guys over at the motorcycle group and they were saying
> that a lot of battery chargers are too powerful for motorcycle
> batteries. Thanks for the help!!
>
>
> rK
Huh? But you said it was dry (i.e. not wet) and I believe the definition of
the word isn't specific to H2O alone.
Surely if you were aware of acid sloshing about at the bottom of the case
you wouldn't have used the word 'dry'!?
Chris
|
|
|
|
Author: rabiticideDate: 16:51 01-07-08
|
|
uh. no sloshing, and i didn't turn it upside down. It seemed pretty
dry. I moved it side to side briskly and neither felt nor heard
anything "slosh". But how else would this be explained? Is H2SO4
pretty viscous?
rK
|
|
|
|
Author: Sjouke BurryDate: 16:54 01-07-08
|
|
rabiticide wrote:
> uh. no sloshing, and i didn't turn it upside down. It seemed pretty
> dry. I moved it side to side briskly and neither felt nor heard
> anything "slosh". But how else would this be explained? Is H2SO4
> pretty viscous?
>
>
> rK
a bit oily.
|
|
|
|
Author: christofireDate: 18:12 01-07-08
|
|
"Sjouke Burry" <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnlll> wrote in message
news:486a9987$0$6005$ba620dc5@text.nova.planet.nl...
> rabiticide wrote:
>> uh. no sloshing, and i didn't turn it upside down. It seemed pretty
>> dry. I moved it side to side briskly and neither felt nor heard
>> anything "slosh". But how else would this be explained? Is H2SO4
>> pretty viscous?
>>
>>
>> rK
> a bit oily.
I wonder what substance they use in jelly-electrolyte lead-acid cells ... to
suspend the acid in a jelly.
Chris
|
|
|
|
Author: John FieldsDate: 18:45 01-07-08
|
|
On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 13:51:16 -0700 (PDT), rabiticide
<rabiticide@gmail.com> wrote:
>uh. no sloshing, and i didn't turn it upside down. It seemed pretty
>dry. I moved it side to side briskly and neither felt nor heard
>anything "slosh". But how else would this be explained? Is H2SO4
>pretty viscous?
---
26.7 cP at 20C, while water is 1.002cP at 20C and olive oil is 84cP at
20C.
JF
|
|
|
|
Author: Tom BiasiDate: 18:53 01-07-08
|
|
"George Jetson" <GeorgeJetson@spacely.com> wrote in message
news:HDuak.15996$Ri.13241@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com...
> "Jonathan Kirwan" <jkirwan@easystreet.com> wrote in message
> news:1cui64tp3blo98q3cuekdkbq8mqm64sgnv@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:06:09 -0700 (PDT), rabiticide
>> <rabiticide@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>It's my motorcycle battery and it's the situation where I need it to
>>>get to this job so I can afford to fix it. I just came off disability
>>>and with $4 to my name I spent $2 on a gallon of distilled water...
>>
>> Okay. It sounded like that kind of situation. I've been there in my
>> life, too, so I can feel your pain.
>>
>>>So I am going to try it and see what happens. I will post my
>>>results....
>>
>> If there doesn't appear to be _any_ sulfuric acid inside, then I don't
>> hold out much hope here. But best luck, anyway.
>>
>>>Isn't H2SO4 a solid? I don't know - I'm thinking of, like, NaOH which
>>>dissolves in water to make the base.
>>><snip>
>>
>> NaOH is a solid. White, and kind of slippery to the touch. But
>> sulfuric acid is a liquid. I've used it, before, as part of a double
>> boiler situation that could achieve the higher melting points I needed
>> at the time while also providing very, very even heating which was
>> also necessary for the rocket fuel I was making then.
>>
>> Jon
>
> Depending on local weather conditions, rain water should woek as well.
>
> --
> They can have my command prompt when they pry it from my cold dead
> fingers.
>
Rain water is not clean. It has a nucleus of something and collects crap on
the way down.
Tom
|
|
|
|
Author: John FieldsDate: 18:55 01-07-08
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Contact | Electronic Portal
|
|
|
