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Sci.Electronics.Basics -> Build USB Long Cable
There are 14 messages in this thread.
You are currently looking at messages 1 to 14.
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if I build by my self a USB cable by 4 seperate coaxial cable
together , it's can work over 5 meter?
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Author: JamieDate: 17:28 27-05-07
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mtczx232@yahoo.com wrote:
> if I build by my self a USB cable by 4 seperate coaxial cable
> together , it's can work over 5 meter?
>
if you have low capacitance how ever, I would make a buffer
driver system to beef up the current.
They use to make these things call Black Boxes for RS-232
runs. they were nothing more than twisted balanced input and
outputs which gives you lots length to work with.
actually, I think products already exist for that.
--
"I'm never wrong, once i thought i was, but was mistaken"
Real Programmers Do things like this.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5
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Author: Michael A. TerrellDate: 17:37 27-05-07
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Jamie wrote:
>
> mtczx232@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > if I build by my self a USB cable by 4 seperate coaxial cable
> > together , it's can work over 5 meter?
> >
> if you have low capacitance how ever, I would make a buffer
> driver system to beef up the current.
> They use to make these things call Black Boxes for RS-232
> runs. they were nothing more than twisted balanced input and
> outputs which gives you lots length to work with.
USB is NOTHING like RS232 in its cabling requirements.
> actually, I think products already exist for that.
There are two conductors for data, power and ground. There are USB
extenders on the market when you need a longer line. You run into timing
errors with long cables, without using an extender. It is a
bi-directional communications device that regenerates the USB signals.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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Author: JamieDate: 20:59 27-05-07
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Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> Jamie wrote:
>
>>mtczx232@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>if I build by my self a USB cable by 4 seperate coaxial cable
>>>together , it's can work over 5 meter?
>>>
>>
>>if you have low capacitance how ever, I would make a buffer
>>driver system to beef up the current.
>> They use to make these things call Black Boxes for RS-232
>>runs. they were nothing more than twisted balanced input and
>>outputs which gives you lots length to work with.
>
>
>
> USB is NOTHING like RS232 in its cabling requirements.
>
>
>
>> actually, I think products already exist for that.
>
>
>
> There are two conductors for data, power and ground. There are USB
> extenders on the market when you need a longer line. You run into timing
> errors with long cables, without using an extender. It is a
> bi-directional communications device that regenerates the USB signals.
>
Yes, I am aware of this, so isn't the RS-232 as 2 conductors RX and TX
for data streams how ever, that doesn't change the facts that long haul
units were made implementing twisted pair balanced lines to transport
between to units and thus back into RS232 again.
I know this because I have a whole load of these "Black Boxes" and
they also work with USB, I'm using one to transport
USB cable on a long haul from a machine to a PC to monitor settings
in a machine...
I simply made a conversion plug and used a couple of existing black
boxes I have in my arsenal.
These units claim a long distant but the 2 i'm currently using are
running aprox 3000 Feet to get the signal into the shop.
They have been working fine with no data problems that i know of..
on the scope the signal looks good..
Can't tell you the speed it's operating at because I don't know that..
P.S.
we're using FEP cat 5 wire if that makes any difference, since we
make that kind of wire there, it was just convenient at the time.
--
"I'm never wrong, once i thought i was, but was mistaken"
Real Programmers Do things like this.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5
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Author: EeyoreDate: 21:15 27-05-07
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Jamie wrote:
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > There are two conductors for data, power and ground. There are USB
> > extenders on the market when you need a longer line. You run into timing
> > errors with long cables, without using an extender. It is a
> > bi-directional communications device that regenerates the USB signals.
> >
> Yes, I am aware of this, so isn't the RS-232 as 2 conductors RX and TX
> for data streams how ever, that doesn't change the facts that long haul
> units were made implementing twisted pair balanced lines to transport
> between to units and thus back into RS232 again.
You want a 'balanced RS232' ?
Use RS485.
Graham
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Author: Homer J SimpsonDate: 21:19 27-05-07
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<mtczx232@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1180298797.518367.133570@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> if I build by my self a USB cable by 4 seperate coaxial cable
> together , it's can work over 5 meter?
Only two of the lines carry signals, the other two are power, however the
spec says it won't work. But you can buy extender cables - try two of those
and see if it works.
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Author: Michael A. TerrellDate: 23:09 27-05-07
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Jamie wrote:
>
> Yes, I am aware of this, so isn't the RS-232 as 2 conductors RX and TX
> for data streams how ever, that doesn't change the facts that long haul
> units were made implementing twisted pair balanced lines to transport
> between to units and thus back into RS232 again.
> I know this because I have a whole load of these "Black Boxes" and
> they also work with USB, I'm using one to transport
> USB cable on a long haul from a machine to a PC to monitor settings
> in a machine...
> I simply made a conversion plug and used a couple of existing black
> boxes I have in my arsenal.
> These units claim a long distant but the 2 i'm currently using are
> running aprox 3000 Feet to get the signal into the shop.
> They have been working fine with no data problems that i know of..
> on the scope the signal looks good..
> Can't tell you the speed it's operating at because I don't know that..
>
> P.S.
> we're using FEP cat 5 wire if that makes any difference, since we
> make that kind of wire there, it was just convenient at the time.
Go ahead and keep advising people to do things outside of the specs.
You are obviously smarter than anyone else on Earth, including the
people who develop the technology and write the standards. Let people
waste their time tryting to make it work properly, what do you care?
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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thanks all, but
I looking after cheap solution for long cable for long cable for my
Point devices (USB Keyboard + USB mouse + Touchpad).
It's posible to achive this target with some trick?
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Author: JasenDate: 04:21 28-05-07
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On 2007-05-27, mtczx232@yahoo.com <mtczx232@yahoo.com> wrote:
> if I build by my self a USB cable by 4 seperate coaxial cable
> together , it's can work over 5 meter?
5m than you'll need a hub, after that you can have another 5 metres
(and then another hub if you want to go further).
--
Bye.
Jasen
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Author: Charlie SiegristDate: 13:44 28-05-07
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Author: Charlie SiegristDate: 13:52 28-05-07
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Circa Sun, 27 May 2007 20:59:03 -0400 recorded as
<dFp6i.2582$Et5.1733@newsfe06.lga> looks like Jamie
<jamie_ka1lpa_not_valid_after_ka1lpa_@charter.net> sounds like:
>Yes, I am aware of this, so isn't the RS-232 as 2 conductors RX and TX
>for data streams how ever, that doesn't change the facts that long haul
>units were made implementing twisted pair balanced lines to transport
>between to units and thus back into RS232 again.
It sounds like what you have is an RS232 to RS422/485 converter. Do you
have a part number or some other identifying mark for these "black boxes?"
I'm very interested in finding out how they buffer the input data.
> I know this because I have a whole load of these "Black Boxes" and
>they also work with USB, I'm using one to transport
>USB cable on a long haul from a machine to a PC to monitor settings
>in a machine...
> I simply made a conversion plug and used a couple of existing black
>boxes I have in my arsenal.
> These units claim a long distant but the 2 i'm currently using are
>running aprox 3000 Feet to get the signal into the shop.
Your shop is a half-mile from your home? That's a big property you have
there. Here is the limitation of your setup: cable length vs. data rate.
The data rate limit of RS422/485 varies with cable length. At 3000', you
will have 20% jitter (that's a lot) at a data rate of 800kbps. (Nat'l
Semiconductor Application Note 214, August 1993)
The USB 1.1 standard has two data rates, 1.5Mbps and 12Mbps. Apparently
the slowest USB rate exceeds by double the capability of the RS422/485
standard at that cable length. Commercial USB->RS485 converters I've
googled don't claim higher than 1Mbps (921.6kbps is a typical maximum).
I'd also like to find out how these commercial devices handle the data rate
difference. Anyone?
> They have been working fine with no data problems that i know of..
>on the scope the signal looks good..
> Can't tell you the speed it's operating at because I don't know that..
If you can see the signal on a scope, then you should be able to calculate
the data rate. I'd be very interested in knowing what rate you are
achieving.
> we're using FEP cat 5 wire if that makes any difference, since we
>make that kind of wire there, it was just convenient at the time.
At <1Mbps data rates, cat 3 works fine (rated up to 10Mbps). You should
get no tangible advantage from using cat 5.
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Author: Rich GriseDate: 18:52 28-05-07
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On Sun, 27 May 2007 13:46:37 -0700, mtczx232 wrote:
> if I build by my self a USB cable by 4 seperate coaxial cable
> together , it's can work over 5 meter?
I've used USB cable extenders, but except they had PS-2 mouse-type
connectors. I got reliable USB over 12', which is close to 4 meters.
Good Luck!
Rich
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Author: SpajkyDate: 11:26 31-05-07
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Author: Jon SlaughterDate: 11:36 31-05-07
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"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:465A4818.734965E6@earthlink.net...
> Jamie wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I am aware of this, so isn't the RS-232 as 2 conductors RX and TX
>> for data streams how ever, that doesn't change the facts that long haul
>> units were made implementing twisted pair balanced lines to transport
>> between to units and thus back into RS232 again.
>> I know this because I have a whole load of these "Black Boxes" and
>> they also work with USB, I'm using one to transport
>> USB cable on a long haul from a machine to a PC to monitor settings
>> in a machine...
>> I simply made a conversion plug and used a couple of existing black
>> boxes I have in my arsenal.
>> These units claim a long distant but the 2 i'm currently using are
>> running aprox 3000 Feet to get the signal into the shop.
>> They have been working fine with no data problems that i know of..
>> on the scope the signal looks good..
>> Can't tell you the speed it's operating at because I don't know that..
>>
>> P.S.
>> we're using FEP cat 5 wire if that makes any difference, since we
>> make that kind of wire there, it was just convenient at the time.
>
>
>
> Go ahead and keep advising people to do things outside of the specs.
> You are obviously smarter than anyone else on Earth, including the
> people who develop the technology and write the standards. Let people
> waste their time tryting to make it work properly, what do you care?
>
>
>
Your a dumbass. Your the one who actually thinks they are the smartest
person on Earth and you get pissed when someone doesn't do things your way
or agree with your methods.
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